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    (Original post by Tibbs735)
    There is no such thing as an orbital EMP weapon. It is just the placement of a nuclear device that matters. North Korea has demonstrated that it is capable of creating a nuclear explosion, though it has probably not worked out how to miniaturize it so that you it could be mounted on a missile. What I was saying is that the satellite could just be a satellite built around a nuclear device so that it could be launched into space by conventional methods.

    This is not fantasy. This type of thing has happened before (Look up the carrington event) where a natural EMP has wreaked havoc on electrical systems, though the society was not dependent on them at the time.
    The Carrington Event was natural. To do the same by an orbital satellite would require something more than North Korea - again, you overestimate NK and expect too much of them. This IS fantasy because it overestimates NK's capabilities. That satellite that you talk of only weights a very small amount and is very small itself - it was also reported "tumbling out of control".

    And what exactly do you expect NK to do after the supposed EMP works over the United States? You still forget the masses of troops in the Pacific and the countless US allies dotted across the planet.

    Again, it is fantasy, picked right out of Homefront. I'll believe it when I see it - which I won't. This is North Korea, we're talking about, not China (who wouldn't do such a thing anyway).
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    Pyongyang:


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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    The Carrington Event was natural. To do the same by an orbital satellite would require something more than North Korea - again, you overestimate NK and expect too much of them. This IS fantasy because it overestimates NK's capabilities. That satellite that you talk of only weights a very small amount and is very small itself - it was also reported "tumbling out of control".

    And what exactly do you expect NK to do after the supposed EMP works over the United States? You still forget the masses of troops in the Pacific and the countless US allies dotted across the planet.

    Again, it is fantasy, picked right out of Homefront. I'll believe it when I see it - which I won't. This is North Korea, we're talking about, not China (who wouldn't do such a thing anyway).
    I'm not saying that I know for certain, it is more likely that Kim Jong-Un is simply throwing his weight around to test the south Koreans and the Americans. I'm saying that it would be foolish to dismiss EMP as a threat when there is virtually no way of recovering from one. If it's not a real threat, why do you think they spent so much time and effort hardening electronics, especially in the military during the late cold war?

    EMP as a weapon of war is not fantasy. Even the wikipedia article of EMP should show you that.
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    (Original post by Tibbs735)
    I'm not saying that I know for certain, it is more likely that Kim Jong-Un is simply throwing his weight around to test the south Koreans and the Americans. I'm saying that it would be foolish to dismiss EMP as a threat when there is virtually no way of recovering from one. If it's not a real threat, why do you think they spent so much time and effort hardening electronics, especially in the military during the late cold war?

    EMP as a weapon of war is not fantasy. Even the wikipedia article of EMP should show you that.
    I know about EMPs. I know they are real. Indeed, a strong flare from the sun could create one so large that we ALL go in the dark. What I am disputing is that NK has one orbiting in its satellite.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    I know about EMPs. I know they are real. Indeed, a strong flare from the sun could create one so large that we ALL go in the dark. What I am disputing is that NK has one orbiting in its satellite.
    You are probably right. Though they may attempt it by some other means. After all, they have worked out how to use fusion triggers, which is supposedly the really hard part.
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    I can't blame North Korea for being pissed off. The US was flying nuclear bombers over South Korea as a show of force to the north. Could you imagine the response if China started flying nuclear bombers over the north to show the south what might happen?
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    (Original post by Sephiroth)
    I can't blame North Korea for being pissed off. The US was flying nuclear bombers over South Korea as a show of force to the north. Could you imagine the response if China started flying nuclear bombers over the north to show the south what might happen?

    I think the stealth bombers were a responce to the "North Korea reserves the right to a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the US".
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)

    Can you tell me which advanced country has an orbital EMP weapon right now?
    All of them that have nuclear devices big enough, atmospheric knowlege of how to create and EMP effect and rockets to get them into position.

    Although NK has some of this, they don't have enough knowlege to combine thetechnologies and their rockets are made of tin foil and stickyback plastic.

    They have only had one sucsessful roket launch of anything significant, all the others have blown up. The detonation of a nuclear device is quite difficult as well, it has to be precise otherwise nothing happens.

    Even if NK managed to generate an emp effect, without their missiles being shot down first, their nukes arn't big enough and any first world nation woudn't be entirely vulnerable and mostly back up on its feet within a week.

    Retaliation would be instantanious by the same nation I would think since nuclear deterents are all SLBM's sat in submarines and other more localised weapons are ship board.

    So basically, all this stuff about EMP's is scaremongering, its an effect not a weapon for a start, NK doesn't have the ability and mostl likely nothing would happen to electrical systems anyway.
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    From CNN

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/11/wo...html?hpt=hp_t1
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    It should probably be pointed out that thats coming from the people who were convinced that Iraq had wmd's.

    It seems to me that NK is basically wasting everyone's time. Making a total mockery of western intelligence agencies and checking the most powerful military ever by moving trucks in and out of garages and lifting missiles up and down.

    The US is now probably realising they can keep this up indefinitely and it'll be no more military anything in the rest of world by the US while they do.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    It should probably be pointed out that thats coming from the people who were convinced that Iraq had wmd's.

    It seems to me that NK is basically wasting everyone's time. Making a total mockery of western intelligence agencies and checking the most powerful military ever by moving trucks in and out of garages and lifting missiles up and down.

    The US is now probably realising they can keep this up indefinitely and it'll be no more military anything in the rest of world by the US while they do.
    well the difference is these asshats actually DO have WMDs
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    It should probably be pointed out that thats coming from the people who were convinced that Iraq had wmd's.

    It seems to me that NK is basically wasting everyone's time. Making a total mockery of western intelligence agencies and checking the most powerful military ever by moving trucks in and out of garages and lifting missiles up and down.

    The US is now probably realising they can keep this up indefinitely and it'll be no more military anything in the rest of world by the US while they do.
    You realize the size of the US military and intel apparatus right? They quite comfortably ran two wars simultaneously. Not to mention that during the Cold War they managed to have an eye on the USSR at all times as well as fighting a number of proxy wars against them. NK may be wasting people's time but its hardly taking up all US resources. IF anything it gives them more of an excuse to send more military assets to the region to counter any future Chinese actions.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    You realize the size of the US military and intel apparatus right? They quite comfortably ran two wars simultaneously. Not to mention that during the Cold War they managed to have an eye on the USSR at all times as well as fighting a number of proxy wars against them. NK may be wasting people's time but its hardly taking up all US resources. IF anything it gives them more of an excuse to send more military assets to the region to counter any future Chinese actions.
    May not be taking up all their resources but it'll take up a lot of them and weaken them on all other fronts. Could be their plan. Imagine SK's reaction if Iran kicked off and the Americans sailed off to defend Israel instead. Result would be SK looking at options outside its US alliance. India's the best bet. Sure they lack infrastructure but that could soon be fixed.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    Pyongyang:


    It doesn't look as different to other countries as I thought it would.
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    (Original post by NotMyToothbrush)
    It doesn't look as different to other countries as I thought it would.
    Pyongyang is where the elite live. The other citizens are labouring in the fields. I'm sure the rest of North Korea is a better depiction of their economy.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    May not be taking up all their resources but it'll take up a lot of them and weaken them on all other fronts. Could be their plan. Imagine SK's reaction if Iran kicked off and the Americans sailed off to defend Israel instead. Result would be SK looking at options outside its US alliance. India's the best bet. Sure they lack infrastructure but that could soon be fixed.
    US current defensive doctrine is to be able to fight a holding action and a full scale war somewhere else at the same time. This is a downscale from the previous of being able to fight two full scale wars at the same time. The US military is equipped and has the nous to be able to deal with both at once.

    India would be a laughable partner. Firstly they do not have the military infrastructure nor the will or want to take up the sort of burden that South Korea would entail. India has the potential to be a great military power but they do not have the will and so are years from it
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    US current defensive doctrine is to be able to fight a holding action and a full scale war somewhere else at the same time. This is a downscale from the previous of being able to fight two full scale wars at the same time. The US military is equipped and has the nous to be able to deal with both at once.

    India would be a laughable partner. Firstly they do not have the military infrastructure nor the will or want to take up the sort of burden that South Korea would entail. India has the potential to be a great military power but they do not have the will and so are years from it
    The US military barely has the nous to deal with a bunch of beardy blokes on clapped out mopeds with AK47's. A downsize from them not having the nous to deal with Vietnamese in the jungle. The US invasion of Iraq was a shambles. They were fed false intelligence to get them to waste their time.

    India proved it's self against the fiercest of opponents in the second world war. These days tho they lack the technology and so lag behind even Pakistan. SK could soon bring them up to speed. An ideal match.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    The US military barely has the nous to deal with a bunch of beardy blokes on clapped out mopeds with AK47's. A downsize from them not having the nous to deal with Vietnamese in the jungle. The US invasion of Iraq was a shambles. They were fed false intelligence to get them to waste their time.

    India proved it's self against the fiercest of opponents in the second world war. These days tho they lack the technology and so lag behind even Pakistan. SK could soon bring them up to speed. An ideal match.
    What is it with people and using Afghanistan and Vietnam as examples of why the US military is weak? You can't judge a military power by it's showing in a Gurilla campaign, asymmetric warfare has defeated some of the greatest powers in military history. Look at how the US military decimated Iraq's army in 2003 and 1990, look at how the US airforce completely degraded Gaddafi's air defense network. Look at the fact that the US has a global reach and can fight wars across the globe, a capacity limited to very few nations. The aftermath of Iraq was a joke eys but the campaign against Saddam's military was not.

    But you are still missing that India does not have the will to get involved in foreign entanglements. They have a very small global footprint and India still sees itself as a non aligned neutral nation.

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefi...wers-world-end have a look at this. India lacks the will to be a great power
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    What is it with people and using Afghanistan and Vietnam as examples of why the US military is weak? You can't judge a military power by it's showing in a Gurilla campaign, asymmetric warfare has defeated some of the greatest powers in military history. Look at how the US military decimated Iraq's army in 2003 and 1990, look at how the US airforce completely degraded Gaddafi's air defense network. Look at the fact that the US has a global reach and can fight wars across the globe, a capacity limited to very few nations. The aftermath of Iraq was a joke eys but the campaign against Saddam's military was not.

    But you are still missing that India does not have the will to get involved in foreign entanglements. They have a very small global footprint and India still sees itself as a non aligned neutral nation.

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefi...wers-world-end have a look at this. India lacks the will to be a great power

    The US is a very mighty military force indeed, but that doesn't mean they are not vulnerable. Any nuclear armed nation could inflict serious damage to the US before that said country is wiped off the map.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    What is it with people and using Afghanistan and Vietnam as examples of why the US military is weak? You can't judge a military power by it's showing in a Gurilla campaign, asymmetric warfare has defeated some of the greatest powers in military history. Look at how the US military decimated Iraq's army in 2003 and 1990, look at how the US airforce completely degraded Gaddafi's air defense network. Look at the fact that the US has a global reach and can fight wars across the globe, a capacity limited to very few nations. The aftermath of Iraq was a joke eys but the campaign against Saddam's military was not.

    But you are still missing that India does not have the will to get involved in foreign entanglements. They have a very small global footprint and India still sees itself as a non aligned neutral nation.

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefi...wers-world-end have a look at this. India lacks the will to be a great power

    Are you serious Aj? :curious:


    That's like saying "Look at how that massive and skilled pro wrestler KO'd that thin, wiry and puny little guy."
 
 
 
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