D&D Religion's "Ask About Sikhism" Thread Watch

RoshniDiya
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Ohhh @ the v-cut!

(Original post by B-Man.)

Thank you, that explaines so much. Just to clarify, the eating of meat on certain days is not derived from the religion and not even based on a difference of opinion between sects/denominations like the Jhatka meat?
Nope, it's not derived from Sikhism at all. I think that it's an influence of Hindu belief, but I didn't want to say that in case I was wrong - if I am wrong, it may just be Indian cultural supersitions. But nothing to do with Sikhism still!


I understood that Dalits and other lower caste Indians suffered alot of opression, but I wasn't aware that Sikhs still suffer from it too ... but is it actually, plausible for Sikh's to be given a homeland within India? What do the Jathedars (elected ministers) of the Akal Takht think about creating a homeland?
I think it's necessary. But I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject. Hopefully somebody else can reply to this...
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J DOT A
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(Original post by RoshniDiya)
Ohhh @ the v-cut!



Nope, it's not derived from Sikhism at all. I think that it's an influence of Hindu belief, but I didn't want to say that in case I was wrong - if I am wrong, it may just be Indian cultural supersitions. But nothing to do with Sikhism still!




I think it's necessary. But I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject. Hopefully somebody else can reply to this...
No, Sikhs don't need a Khalistan as they are treated as equal amongst Indian society. I have never ever heard of a Sikh being targeted/victimized simply because they are sikh post 1984.

Just stop these stupid claims, and now moron will post an article from Sikhlionz or something that hindus are killing sikhs in their thousands. Just pure and simple BS. Sikhs defended India, Sikhs are Indians and Sikhs will remain Indians.
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SMEGGGY
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(Original post by RoshniDiya)
Lol that's not Sikhism at all, some "Sikhs" do things like abstaining from meat on certain days, only washing their hair on certain days, etc, due to the influence of another religion. Sikhism is totally against ritualistic things (like don't eat meat on this day, do this on this day) and supersititions. What do you mean a V-cut? A v-neck shirt? I'm totally lost lol :P



Some people believe that hundreds of years ago when the Sikh warriors had nothing to eat, they were allowed to perform jhatka. For that reason, some people believe eating jhatka meat is acceptable, particularly Nihangs. Others think it's totally unacceptable, as Guru Granth Sahib Ji points out many times. So that's why there are always different opinions on it...

The meat issue is a tad complex. Some say it's permitted some say it's not.

On one said the Guru says - Maas Maas Kar Chagre, Gian Tian Na Ave - Quarrelling over meat does not give one knowledge. Guru Ji also says that the Torah, Quran, Bible have permitted eating of meat for centuries, so why all of a sudden should it not be permissible?

It comes from when you've reached that state of spirituality and you've thought hmmm, this animal is Gods creation, and he too has the light of the Prevading :Lord within it, so I'll be a vegetarian so no to cause it harm/death to feed my tastes.

But you also have it said in Gurbani by Sheikh Farid [or Sheikh Kabir Ji] ji that eating of Fish, and intoxicants is forbidden so its supported there too. It's a personal choice I think and God has left it to each individual.
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SaintSoldier
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(Original post by B-Man.)
Thank you, that explaines so much. Just to clarify, the eating of meat on certain days is not derived from the religion and not even based on a difference of opinion between sects/denominations like the Jhatka meat?
Jatka meat was first consumed by Sikhs after the time of the Gurus (although meat eating Sikhs say that the Gurus practiced this). The animal is killed with one blow of the kirpan, and then it's head is put in front of Guru Granth Sahib as an offering. This practice is completely anti-Gurmat, because it fails to respect the life of the animal and it employs meaningless rituals, which the Gurus were firmly against.

Sikhs consumed it because they had been driven out of the towns and cities by the Mughals, and were living in the hazardous jungles of India. They had no food, so they had to kill to live. Sikhs in the Ghir Forest used to hunt lions and eat their meat, as there was nothing else that was safe to eat (lot's of poisonous plants in Indian jungles). They were desparate, and Sikhism would have probably died out if they had not made that sacrifice. I think that that was justified, and Guru Granth Sahib tells us not to be superstitious about meat like the Hindus are.

Nihungs (tribal Sikhs) still like t live as if they are in the Puraatan times, when the Sikhs were regarded as outlaws and were actively being rounded up and killed. They still behave as though they are in that same state of war, and hence they eat Jatka meat.

Also, the Sikhs in the west like to eat meat. This is just because most of western society is meat eating, so they just want to fit it by eating meat. These people do not usually have very much concern over matters of religion. They just say"Nihungs do it, so we should." They think that Nihungs are the epitome of the Rehit (code of conduct) but Nihungs aren't actually that great at practicing Sikhism. For example, they chew bhang (cannabis) and they worship a "sword goddess," both of which are emphatically prohibited and Guru Granth Sahib.


(Original post by B-Man.)
I understood that Dalits and other lower caste Indians suffered alot of opression, but I wasn't aware that Sikhs still suffer from it too ... but is it actually, plausible for Sikh's to be given a homeland within India? What do the Jathedars (elected ministers) of the Akal Takht think about creating a homeland?
The persecution of Dalits is not the same as the persecution of Sikhs. Dalits are oppressed because they are seen as being "lower" by the Hindu majority in India. They are ethnically different, and Hindus regard this as a defect.

Sikhs on the oother hand are hated through jealousy. Most Hindus have a great admiration for Sikhs, and see us as very kind people. Howeer, others have become jealous. Sikhs pay 37% of India's income tax, despite representing only 2% of India's population. This is due Sikhs owning many of India's booming businesses. You can see why some people would be annoyed about that. It's sort of like the persecution of the Jews: just because they were successful in life, they had to pay the price for it.

Khalistan, if you assume that the residents of Punjab are robots and will do everything that you tell them to, is definitely feasable. It is economically viable, but not socially. Punjab is in the grip of drug and drink problems. You can't just make a country and expect it to work. The people have to be behind it.

Khalistan means "Land of the Pure." If the people ae not pure, then what is the point in making the country? It would just become a failed state. We need 70%+ of Sikhs to be Amritdhari (initiated) before Khalistan can be formed. Then it would be a great success. This will take many decades I fear.

Jathedars are frankly useless. They can't decide on anything. Half of them are Indian Government informers anyway. If we listen to them, nothing will get done.

(Original post by B-Man.)
Some of my Sikh friends are vegetarian ... but only on a Tuesday :hmmm: Is this backed up by the Sikh faith at all? He also doesn't wear a turban and even has a V-cut if it matters.
NO NO NO! :mad:

Guru Gobind Singh predicted that the Sikhs would lose their identity turn into Hindus - Your friend is a prime example.

All rituals are banned in Sikhism. Abstaining fro meat on certain days is an ancient Hindu fasting custom, and is hence banned in Sikhism

We believe that fasting contains no spiritual merit, so Sikhs should not be wasting their time fasting.
(Original post by B-Man.)
hmmm, where do you stand on this?
I don't think that Sikhs should carry them around everywhere, but I think we should definitely be proficient in their use.

Guru Gobind Singh made the Sikhs into weapon bearing warriors, so we need to continue that role and responsibility.

If WW3 broke out tomorrow, how many Sikhs would be able to defend the weak from oppression? Not many, because we are all out of shape and do not possess martial knowledge. A true Sikh would rush to the battlefield, always prepared to sight in order to restore justice.

If someone hands you gun, you need to know how to use it. If you go into an exam, and who can't write, no one will take sympathy for you, and you will fail the exam. Similarly, Sikhs who don't train with all forms of weaponry will fail the test of life.

(Original post by B-Man.)
Is it really necessary? India even has a Sikh PM right now; it's been along time since 1984.
Fake encounters still happen in India. Sikhs are prejudiced against in almost every aspect; politically, economically and socially.

Guru Gobind Singh said the religion dies out if it does not obtain statehood. Sikhism, as the Gurus' practiced it, is dying out. So we need our own country to rejuvinate the Sikhi Suroop.

(Original post by B-Man.)
From the Sikhs I've spoken to, it's hard and something they can do when they're older and have had their fun.
This is another concept that modern day Sikhs have borrowed from Hinduism. There are no stages of life in Sikhism. When people are young, they forget that they are going to die. It's only when they're old that they start practicing religion, because they are scared of death. This is very hypocritical and selfish and it is not the Sikh way. Real Sikhs should love God, no matter how old they are, and thus follow religion. You could die tomorrow, and what will you say to God if you do? "I was planning on becoming religious later, after I committed thousands of sins during my teenage years." I don't think that'll fly. You will bear the punishment for what you have done, there is no way of getting around it. God isn't stupid.
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B-Man.
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(Original post by SaintSoldier)
We need 70%+ of Sikhs to be Amritdhari (initiated) before Khalistan can be formed.
What would you say is the actual percentage of Amritdhari's in India today?

(Original post by SaintSoldier)
Jathedars are frankly useless. They can't decide on anything. Half of them are Indian Government informers anyway. If we listen to them, nothing will get done.
They might be bad people, but are they not influential in India?

(Original post by SaintSoldier)
If WW3 broke out tomorrow, how many Sikhs would be able to defend the weak from oppression? Not many, because we are all out of shape and do not possess martial knowledge. A true Sikh would rush to the battlefield, always prepared to sight in order to restore justice.
There a lot of injustices in the world. Is it a sin that Sikhs are not travelling to places like say Syria or Yemen to defend the innocents from injustice?

(Original post by SaintSoldier)
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Random question: Where does Sikhism stand on evolution? Is it something that the religion is against? or for it? or is it omitted completely?
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SaintSoldier
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(Original post by B-Man.)
What would you say is the actual percentage of Amritdhari's in India today?
I genuinely don't have a clue. I would gues at maybe ~10-15% of Sikhs are Amritdhari, but I could be out by a bit.

(Original post by B-Man.)
They might be bad people, but are they not influential in India?
They are actually. One of they member of Khalistan Liberation Force was hanged a few years ago, and the Taksaal (and the Jathedars to some extent) organised an operation that sealed off the whole of Punjab for a week. Even the army could not get in. It just goes to show that if we are determined, we can make things happen.

(Original post by B-Man.)
There a lot of injustices in the world. Is it a sin that Sikhs are not travelling to places like say Syria or Yemen to defend the innocents from injustice?
I think that Sikhs should be out there fighting injustice and oppression, yes. But like I said, the Sikhs are a mess right now. Nobody is practicing real Sikhism, so the amount of Sikhs that would be willing to help out is minimal.


(Original post by B-Man.)
Random question: Where does Sikhism stand on evolution? Is it something that the religion is against? or for it? or is it omitted completely?
Sikhs believe in evolution, because it says it in Guru Granth Sahib. Most Sikhs these days haven't even read Guru Granth Sahib, so they have no idea of the wonders contained within it. These verses kept warriors fighting through the harshest an most brutal conditions, and you can see why:

"Creation came into being with a single command of God; from it evolved millions of branches of different types (or life forms)" (Ang 3, GGS)

That's evolution. Plain and simple.

(there are 2 more quotes about evolution in Guru Granth Sahib, but I can't remember them and I don't want to get the page references wrong. If I find out, I'll post it on here. But you should know that this isn't a fluke: evolution is mentioned more than once in Guru Granth Sahib)
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B-Man.
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(Original post by SaintSoldier)
I think that Sikhs should be out there fighting injustice and oppression, yes. But like I said, the Sikhs are a mess right now. Nobody is practicing real Sikhism, so the amount of Sikhs that would be willing to help out is minimal.
No offence, but what about you? You're not out there either.

(Original post by SaintSoldier)
Sikhs believe in evolution, because it says it in Guru Granth Sahib. Most Sikhs these days haven't even read Guru Granth Sahib, so they have no idea of the wonders contained within it. These verses kept warriors fighting through the harshest an most brutal conditions, and you can see why:

"Creation came into being with a single command of God; from it evolved millions of branches of different types (or life forms)" (Ang 3, GGS)

That's evolution. Plain and simple.

(there are 2 more quotes about evolution in Guru Granth Sahib, but I can't remember them and I don't want to get the page references wrong. If I find out, I'll post it on here. But you should know that this isn't a fluke: evolution is mentioned more than once in Guru Granth Sahib)
Do any verses specify the creation of humans?
The first is one more general and many religious scriptures contain verses that are akin to it.
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SaintSoldier
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(Original post by B-Man.)
No offence, but what about you? You're not out there either.
True, but I'm not 100% Sikh am I? I probably seem really religious on here, and most of my friends know that I am, but I'm nothing compared to the Sikhs of Gurus' times.

Also, what am I supposed to go there with? I don't have the equipment or money to make a meaningful difference, so what would be the point.

There are a lot of problems over here that need dealing with as well. The Sikh Unit (as in the rap group) were originally a vigilante group who patrolled the streets of Hackney and Newham to defend against gang culture. Killa, the head of the group, went to prison for stabbing a BNP member who was harrassing a Muslim couple and their baby. That's the sort of thing I could do over here.

If you look at my life, I have had 4 attempted muggings on me. Only one was actually successful, and that happened when I was 12yrs old. That inspired me to train hard, and get fit. Now I have a heavy bag in my room, so I train to fight in the Guru's Fauj (army). I train on most days, just getting more powerful and agile. I've never come across another person getting attacked in front of me, but if I did, i'd be willing to step in. Those are just little things that I'd do to stay true to my faith.

NB: I can tell that a load of people will think I'm trolling. I'm not. Believe what you want to believe, but this is the honest truth about my life experience.



(Original post by B-Man.)
Do any verses specify the creation of humans?
The first is one more general and many religious scriptures contain verses that are akin to it.
I'll go on a quotation hunt just for you! I'll try and find you those other quotes
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RoshniDiya
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I think B-Man makes an excellent point about Sikhs standing up for the oppressed and weak in all places; it's our duty to do so. The panth needs to sort itself out, we could be doing so much more...
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dogra
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(Original post by SaintSoldier)
The persecution of Dalits is not the same as the persecution of Sikhs. Dalits are oppressed because they are seen as being "lower" by the Hindu majority in India. They are ethnically different, and Hindus regard this as a defect.
What majority, u aint hindu chappie are you , so how do u know what the majority think, yes there are some, but Hindu scriptures are quite clear:
In sloka (X.20)
"I am the Self seated in the heart of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the very end of all beings".* All beings have, therefore to be treated alike
now explain where does it mention 'dalit' anywhere, maybe hidden under letter 'i' no u still cant find it, get a word detector from the forum menu, maybe then u will find it, still not, then get a life, jeez!

Lets be clear we reject this 'dalit' lable they are our equal human beings, undertandee, simple enough, they are NOT lower, simple enough, get the message, if not pop over to ask about hinduism and we will see scripturals facts!!
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(Original post by dogra)
What majority, u aint hindu chappie are you , so how do u know what the majority think, yes there are some, but Hindu scriptures are quite clear:
I was refering to a "majority" in the sense that Hindus make up the majority of the Indian population, sorry for any misunderstanding with that terminology.

And yes, I'm not a Hindu, your point being...?

(Original post by dogra)
now explain where does it mention 'dalit' anywhere, maybe hidden under letter 'i' no u still cant find it, get a word detector from the forum menu, maybe then u will find it, still not, then get a life, jeez!

Lets be clear we reject this 'dalit' lable they are our equal human beings, undertandee, simple enough, they are NOT lower, simple enough, get the message, if not pop over to ask about hinduism and we will see scripturals facts!!
I wasn't refering to scripture at all. I was refering to the average Hindu living in India. chances are not many of them would eat from the same dish as a dalit. I was merely making a social comment, not a religious one. Even you must admit, there is a lot af prejudice in Hindu society (but that doesn't necessarily mean that they represent religious Hindus). This has got better in recent years, but in the time of the Gurus' the situation was dire, and needed changing (hence the early actions of Guru Nanak).

My knowledge of Hindu scripture is limited, as I haven't done much research in the area, but I do seem to recall that Krishna justifies the caste system in the Bhagavad Gita and that one of Vishnu's 10 avatars was sent down to stop rivalry between the castes, and to restore the caste system to it's normal order (I think it was one of the early Human ones, possibly Rama with the axe, No. 5/6/7, but not at all sure)

Your tone in this post is not great if I'm honest. If you think that Hindus don't believe in caste, then you really need to wake up and see the real world. India is full of caste prejudice, but Hindus aren't the only ones responsible admittedly.

I don't wish to point out the obvious, but I'm not stupid. Please do not regard me as such.

I already have a life, so I'll have to decline your offer there.

NB: If I've made any errors, I do sincerely aplolgise, but my knowledge of Hindu scripture is limited. However, that does not mean I know nothing about Hinduism, because it is mostly socially governed, rather than scripturally eg. most Hindus worship idols, even though this is prohibited in Hindu scripture. They go against their scripture, but they are still recognised amongst others as devout Hindus.
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dogra
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Firstly I already said some hindus are prejudiced and do not behave in accordance with scriptures like Lord Rama eating with cleaner Shrabri simple
Now again this caste is not what u think , it is about people functions working together in society simple enough, this is what Lord Krishna is talking about , it is Varna ; that which is by choice through education, through training , simple
Lord Krishna says I reside in heart of all beings. Note All beings without exception
My caste is human like my fellow so called Dalits, our equals
Oxford uni of hindu studies lecturer also agrees no untouchability in hindu scriptures
Sri Ramanand was part Bhakti movement to vanquish social evil of caste and had Sant Kabir as a disciple
Some Hindus are working to eradicate caste prejudice and state scripture fact of humanity of aqua human beings regardless of function



Problem is scriptures of hindu teach to practice humanity anf that's a fact, if u or anyone else disagrees then come to ask about Hinduism and state your case from scriptures
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dogra
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Ps your tone of majority Hindus this and that is offensive
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SaintSoldier
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(Original post by dogra)
Problem is scriptures of hindu teach to practice humanity anf that's a fact, if u or anyone else disagrees then come to ask about Hinduism and state your case from scriptures
Like I said, I never said I was refering to scriptures. I was refering to Hindu society. Seriously, if you think that the average Hindu is completely at one with the rest of humanity, then you are mistaken. Don't judge things by the UK Sangat, but go to India for the real opinion of the common man.

(Original post by dogra)
Ps your tone of majority Hindus this and that is offensive
It's the tructh though, and you can't deny it.
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dogra
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(Original post by SaintSoldier)
Like I said, I never said I was refering to scriptures. I was refering to Hindu society. Seriously, if you think that the average Hindu is completely at one with the rest of humanity, then you are mistaken. Don't judge things by the UK Sangat, but go to India for the real opinion of the common man.


Seriously, have stated some Hindus do behave prejudically twice, why u ignoring this.
Again Hindu scritures teach to practice humanity and thats a fact.
Campaigns are going on in India to vanquish this social evil:

http://agniveer.com/5418/the-reality-of-caste-system-3/

It's the tructh though, and you can't deny it.
It is your truth, tool of the bigot!, as you do not know the majority, some do and some dont, depends on your personal angle, it just shows YOU up period.
Again scriptures teaches to practice humanity and from these a mighty weapon is being used, we continue to vanquish this prejudice as so called 'dalits' are our equals, all functions in society have dignity of labour, functions come together for society to work for the better.

Karma Yoga-selfless service a primall message point.
Step by step....
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The Lyceum
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(Original post by SaintSoldier)
True, but I'm not 100% Sikh am I? I probably seem really religious on here, and most of my friends know that I am, but I'm nothing compared to the Sikhs of Gurus' times.

Also, what am I supposed to go there with? I don't have the equipment or money to make a meaningful difference, so what would be the point.

There are a lot of problems over here that need dealing with as well. The Sikh Unit (as in the rap group) were originally a vigilante group who patrolled the streets of Hackney and Newham to defend against gang culture. Killa, the head of the group, went to prison for stabbing a BNP member who was harrassing a Muslim couple and their baby. That's the sort of thing I could do over here.

If you look at my life, I have had 4 attempted muggings on me. Only one was actually successful, and that happened when I was 12yrs old. That inspired me to train hard, and get fit. Now I have a heavy bag in my room, so I train to fight in the Guru's Fauj (army). I train on most days, just getting more powerful and agile. I've never come across another person getting attacked in front of me, but if I did, i'd be willing to step in. Those are just little things that I'd do to stay true to my faith.

NB: I can tell that a load of people will think I'm trolling. I'm not. Believe what you want to believe, but this is the honest truth about my life experience.
You're a Sikh. Obviously this is assuming this attitude is real and not internet posturing, but....yeah that's what its all about. Keeping yourself strong and trying to protect the weaker. Nice.
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(Original post by dogra)
It is your truth, tool of the bigot!, as you do not know the majority, some do and some dont, depends on your personal angle, it just shows YOU up period.
Again scriptures teaches to practice humanity and from these a mighty weapon is being used, we continue to vanquish this prejudice as so called 'dalits' are our equals, all functions in society have dignity of labour, functions come together for society to work for the better.

Karma Yoga-selfless service a primall message point.
Step by step....
Right I think we need to stop this debate now because it's just getting stupid.

Did I ever say that Hindus are directly told to dicriminate on the basis of caste? NO. I know that true devout Hindus will help all humans, regardless of their caste.

But if you aren't prepared to admit the flaws in India's social fabric, then you really need to wake up.

I'm prepared to admit that mosts Sikhs are obsessive with caste. We are told repeatedly in Gurbani that caste holds no meaning, and we cannot even have castes at all, even if there is not subjugation of people in that society, but Sikhs still adhere to this for unknown reasons.

A similar situation can be found with modern day Hindus. That's NOT an insult or anything like that. I have respect for Hindus that follow their religion properly, but a lot of them don't (again, same sort of situation with Sikhs).


(Original post by The Lyceum)
You're a Sikh. Obviously this is assuming this attitude is real and not internet posturing, but....yeah that's what its all about. Keeping yourself strong and trying to protect the weaker. Nice.
Thank you for your comments

This isn't internet brovado; I actually do this for real. I'm no Hulk Hogan and I'm not massive, but I'd like to think that I'm more physically fit than others of my age, and certainly more battle ready.

That is what Sikhism is about, true
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dogra
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But if you aren't prepared to admit the flaws in India's social fabric, then you really need to wake up.
dear me, u been skim reading let me repeat again, for the thrid time from previous posts

Seriously, have stated some Hindus do behave prejudically ,
and again

Firstly I already said some hindus are prejudiced and do not behave in accordance with scriptures like Lord Rama eating with cleaner Shrabri simple
hence reason why campaigns in India to vanquish this social evil:
http://agniveer.com/5418/the-reality-of-caste-system-3/

simple!
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(Original post by SaintSoldier)
Well the turbans aren't really the same, but I see what you're saying.

And Sikhs get annoyed when we are mistaken for being Muslims. Across the USA Sikhs were shot by Americans in the aftermath of 9/11, because the thought they were supporters of Osama Bin Laden (due to the turbans).

Not saying there's anything wrongw ith being Muslim, but we're not Muslims.

Like you'd be annoyed if I mis took you for a Christian, wouldn't you? It's not as if there's anything wrong with being a Christian, but you're not one, right? Same with us.



Are those hijabs? Yeh actually they do look like hijabs. I never thought of it that way before lol
My comment was quite offensive. Apologies.
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(Original post by itzme)
Sikhs don't like Muslims. The only time they cut their hair is when they have killed a Muslim. Otherwise, they let it grow under their turban.

My source: a relative who studies religion.
:lolwut:

Your "source" obviously knows nothing about Sikhism.

This actually made me laugh out loud :laugh:

Sikhs have no emnity towards Muslims. Guru Nanak's most trusted friend, Mardana, was a Muslim. The person who laid the foundation stone of the Golden Temple in Amritsar was a Muslim. The Gurus clearly had good relations with Muslims. They fought the Mughals, who were force converting people to Islam, but that doesn't make them "Muslims," because (contrary to popular belief) mainstream Islam allows freedom of religion.

Sikhs have no prejudice or hatred towards any particular group. We are the guards of humanity, and help those in need, whoever they are.

Anyone who says otherwise is not a Sikh.
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