Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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MatureStudent36
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#6621
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#6621
(Original post by FinalMH)
The SNP have already dismissed his views. http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/expe...ound-1-3330462



Someone who is an expert in the field, provides an educated opinion, and its called nonsense?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-pact-holyrood Shocking.
Alas our YeSNP campaign supporters continue to ignore reality.
It's a bit like a bunker mentality of shutting outside the outside world.
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KevK92
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#6622
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#6622
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Alas our YeSNP campaign supporters continue to ignore reality.
It's a bit like a bunker mentality of shutting outside the outside world.
"YeSNP" - cringeworthy.
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Midlander
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#6623
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#6623
(Original post by KevK92)
"YeSNP" - cringeworthy.
So is 'EBC'.


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Studentus-anonymous
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#6624
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#6624
In before someone claims that the poll results on here represent the actual percentage of Yes support, ignoring the fact cybernats probably swarmed onto here to try and dominate the discussion and could still only manage 32% at the time of this reply.
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KevK92
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#6625
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#6625
(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
In before someone claims that the poll results on here represent the actual percentage of Yes support, ignoring the fact cybernats probably swarmed onto here to try and dominate the discussion and could still only manage 32% at the time of this reply.
You're right it doesn't represent the actual percentage of YES because there'll be many that have contributed to the poll that don't have a vote. So the poll is of no indication. However, I think you'll be in for a big shock come the 18th of Sept.
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Midlander
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#6626
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#6626
(Original post by KevK92)
You're right it doesn't represent the actual percentage of YES because there'll be many that have contributed to the poll that don't have a vote. So the poll is of no indication. However, I think you'll be in for a big shock come the 18th of Sept.
We will see. I expect Salmond to cry foul play if he loses though.


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Reformed2010
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#6627
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#6627
I don't get the SNP and anti British unionist.

If Brazil:
joined a British sterling zone
allowed the Bank of England to set their interest rates
paid taxes to the BBC
joined the EU (bearing in mind the internal market, custom union, fishery policy is only set in Brussels and other areas like agriculture and transport can be too)
joined NATO
let the Queen be their head of state
Used UK embassies worldwide
Issued British passports and a common travel area.
Share R&D on renewable energy
Share electric grid
and so on...

People would say it had lost its independence and rightly so. This is what Alex Salmond is giving Scotland. Not independence, it's just devolution max. More so, if Scots like Salmond have an issue with decision-making being made in London. How will they handle the EU commission and Parliament passing down laws that are being made by Christian conservatives? Because the line that Scots 'voted for a left-wing government but got a right wing government' will apply with the EU too.

What happens when the majority in Scotland vote for left-wing EU parties like the Liberals (Alliance of Liberals) and Labour (Socialist and Democrats). But the Conservatives (European People's Party) end up winning the election in the EU Parliament? Somehow British conservatives are bad but European Conservatives are good? give me a break. I think the Scots need to ask Spain, Italy and Greece what happens when you vote left-wing at home but end up with right-wing European Commission and Parliament.
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L i b
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#6628
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#6628
(Original post by frazza77)
The referendum campaign is very different from what "we" especially those of you south of the border see. Better Together do not draw crowds to meetings, they won't send politicians, activists or councillors to debate in town halls and schools.
That's funny, there were two debates in schools in the Falkirk district last week that had to be cancelled because Yes Scotland didn't put someone up.

Your assertion is nonsense. Better Together do all of these things week-in, week-out.

Yes are running events every night of the week and are having Super Saturdays where activists meet in an area and canvass in the streets. Even groups of few people are grabbing a table and a few leaflets and doing a stall outside supermarkets during the week.
Yeah, just like every other political campaign in modern history. Hardly innovative techniques there.

It is also true to say that when presented with the evidence, people are more likely to vote Yes.
Really? Care to explain then why, if as you say the 'yes' campaign is doing so much, the polls haven't shifted in their favour? There's absolutely no polling evidence to support this assertion.

Anecdotal evidence is, frankly, rubbish. Activists try to pretend they persuaded and converted, when realistically they aren't on any scale. They're also either hideously optimistic or talk crap: indeed, I spoke to a Better Together canvasser who claimed to have had a group visit 300 houses in an evening and only find 2 yes voters.

Now, it was a decent area, so you'd expect it to be overwhelmingly no voters, but even then - 2 in 300? I'm afraid once people are in a campaign they lose their objective faculties.
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Cryptographic
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#6629
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#6629
(Original post by Good bloke)
Well, on that point, any UK government that didn't veto entry into the EU for an independent Scotland that chooses to renege on its share of UK debt would probably be doomed to never regain power. The British people will certainly respect a Scottish decision to go it alone (while not wanting that to happen), but they won't be taken for a ride, and they expect the government to play hardball in the negotiations if it should happen.

That article raises quite a lot of doubts about how a new currency might be made to work, and about how the debt could be passed over. Very interesting.
If Scotland decide to leave in the negotiation, this will sound bad, but the rUK's position should be whatever is in the interest of rUK. With no concessions made to Scotland if it doesn't benefit rUK. There shouldn't be any sort of pseudo-independance.
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Good bloke
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#6630
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#6630
(Original post by Cryptographic)
If Scotland decide to leave in the negotiation, this will sound bad, but the rUK's position should be whatever is in the interest of rUK. With no concessions made to Scotland if it doesn't benefit rUK. There shouldn't be any sort of pseudo-independance.
Quite.
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goape
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#6631
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#6631
Despite the no campaign being called 'Better Together', I've heard much more along the lines of 'you're f**ked without us' than 'we're better together'. That's not the way to win over someone.
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MatureStudent36
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#6632
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#6632
(Original post by goape)
Despite the no campaign being called 'Better Together', I've heard much more along the lines of 'you're f**ked without us' than 'we're better together'. That's not the way to win over someone.
Which exactly is where the phrase better together comes from.

If we're not better together we're worse off, or f***ed as you like to call it.
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Snagprophet
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#6633
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#6633
(Original post by goape)
Despite the no campaign being called 'Better Together', I've heard much more along the lines of 'you're f**ked without us' than 'we're better together'. That's not the way to win over someone.
Yeah I don't get why the No campaign has the position that Scotland would be worse off.
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Midlander
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#6634
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#6634
(Original post by Snagprophet)
Yeah I don't get why the No campaign has the position that Scotland would be worse off.
Being better off in the union by default means being worse off independent.


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Snagprophet
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#6635
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#6635
(Original post by Midlander)
Being better off in the union by default means being worse off independent.


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[/sarcasm]

Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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Midlander
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#6636
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#6636
(Original post by Snagprophet)
[/sarcasm]

Sorry if that wasn't clear.
It wasn't.


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Snagprophet
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#6637
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#6637
(Original post by Midlander)
It wasn't.


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Okay then.
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MatureStudent36
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#6638
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#6638
(Original post by Snagprophet)
Yeah I don't get why the No campaign has the position that Scotland would be worse off.
Ignoring the social factors that's many of us can identify as being both British and Scottish and don't want to leave the UK for a whole host of reasons, the no campaign is merely highlighting alongside a whole host of independant sources that what the nationalists are saying is overly optimistic and in reality we'll be worse off.
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Studentus-anonymous
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#6639
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#6639
(Original post by Snagprophet)
Yeah I don't get why the No campaign has the position that Scotland would be worse off.
Strangely enough because it would be?

But like creationists I long ago accepted that the position of the Yes campaign wasn't based on anything like reality but more an emotionally charged and misguided dream, oh and the worryingly un-moderated and reasoned ambition of Mr Salmond.
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MostUncivilised
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#6640
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#6640
(Original post by Snagprophet)
Yeah I don't get why the No campaign has the position that Scotland would be worse off.
Because it almost certainly would be. Scotland would be outside the European Union for some time, it would either have no central bank if it adopts the pound sterling with no currency union (resulting in wild swings in fiscal policy to compensate) or adopt a Scots pound that would create considerable dislocation as every contract, every deed, every deal has to be redenominated in the new currency. Pensions would be destabilised, Scottish exports would suffer badly.

It has become increasingly clear that cybernats respond to every dose of reality by claiming that it's all a conspiracy to prevent them becoming independent, and most of them now largely inhabit a fantasy world where everything will be better after independence.

They've drunk their own kool-aid, and they believe their own propaganda (for example, claiming that the Osborne, Balls, Alexander intervention would drive people into the Yes camp, when in fact the opposite has occurred)
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