Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Assassin)
    Dw man just leave it :laugh:
    I know haha just ridiculous :rofl:
    Online

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Malevolent)
    I know haha just ridiculous :rofl:
    Im assuming ur an Arsenal fan so must hav seen merts solid performances.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArsenalWenger)
    Im assuming ur an Arsenal fan so must hav seen merts solid performances.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    No I'm not an Arsenal fan nor am I a Tottenham fan. I agree Mertesacker has had some very good games but Vertonghen was top 3 CBs in the Prem for me last season.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mr Advice)
    So he wouldn't be very useful at Madrid or PSG?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I don't know about that but from what he's done at Arsenal in the past he does seem to prefer giving the young players a chance rather than buying the world class players already out there. Its only this season where he seems to be changing that as he's bid for various players who could make Arsenal into contenders again. But if they get them is another story.

    Thinking about your question I don't know how much Real Madrid/PSGs transfer policy is now to the managers. I can't imagine Wenger going to these clubs and spending money like they've been doing in the past few seasons. I'm not saying he won't spend the money but he wouldn't spend the ridiculous amount they've spent on some players.
    Online

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Malevolent)
    No I'm not an Arsenal fan nor am I a Tottenham fan. I agree Mertesacker has had some very good games but Vertonghen was top 3 CBs in the Prem for me last season.
    Fair enough, I wudnt swap mert for verts so lets leave it at that :awesome:

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Musester)
    Wasn't Henry's defining charateristic (aside from the finishing) his pace? Walcott's just like him in that regard, and I think much more an accomplished finisher than Giroud. If you don't sign Suarez I'd say it's definitely worth playing him there. He was in fantastic form until he signed the new contract (difficult to say if that was because he wanted a new contract, or if it was as he was playing as a lone striker) but still.
    Henry's dribbling and off the ball movement is miles ahead of walcotts, would you see henry getting hit by offside traps for a whole half by chelsea playing a high line, he would have made mince meat out of us. Walcott is a good player, but he seems to either be amazing or **** to people. I think he's good, has potential to be amazing and that's it. He needs to improve his effectiveness/consistency(although better than before) or improve his all round game imo to be considered a top striker the likes of henry.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by poiuytrewq54321)
    I don't know about that but from what he's done at Arsenal in the past he does seem to prefer giving the young players a chance rather than buying the world class players already out there. Its only this season where he seems to be changing that as he's bid for various players who could make Arsenal into contenders again. But if they get them is another story.

    Thinking about your question I don't know how much Real Madrid/PSGs transfer policy is now to the managers. I can't imagine Wenger going to these clubs and spending money like they've been doing in the past few seasons. I'm not saying he won't spend the money but he wouldn't spend the ridiculous amount they've spent on some players.
    My point with the question about Madrid and PSG is that he needs to be prepared to alter his ways a little; be less stubborn. His policy has its benefits and it's delivered success but, as of late, its bought nothing. I'm not one for gung-ho spending but he does need to realise sometimes you have buy the already made player. And more so with us because we sell the established players every summer.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mr Advice)
    My point with the question about Madrid and PSG is that he needs to be prepared to alter his ways a little; be less stubborn. His policy has its benefits and it's delivered success but, as of late, its bought nothing. I'm not one for gung-ho spending but he does need to realise sometimes you have buy the already made player. And more so with us because we sell the established players every summer.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    He doesn't even need to buy an already made player, atleast buy a player that is young but his talent is clear. Like Lamela or something not Sanogo a guy who could literally end up becoming Francis Jeffers if it goes ***s up. Atm we seem to be buying good old players like arteta and padolski which annoys me
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mr Advice)
    My point with the question about Madrid and PSG is that he needs to be prepared to alter his ways a little; be less stubborn. His policy has its benefits and it's delivered success but, as of late, its bought nothing. I'm not one for gung-ho spending but he does need to realise sometimes you have buy the already made player. And more so with us because we sell the established players every summer.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I don't think he's policy was wrong but if he he didn't sell those players on then I think Arsenal would be up there with the best. Fabregas, RVP, Nasri, Song etc If you put these players in the current team everyone would be fearing you. But as it is there not and when these players left Arsene didn't bother replacing them with good enough replacements.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Totnum would fail FFP btw..,.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    Totnum would fail FFP btw..,.
    Oh well if they finish above us next season least we have won the trophy of FFP :P :P :P :P :P :P
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    Totnum would fail FFP btw..,.
    Not if they sell Bale at the reported price
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Malevolent)
    No I'm not an Arsenal fan nor am I a Tottenham fan. I agree Mertesacker has had some very good games but Vertonghen was top 3 CBs in the Prem for me last season.
    Mertesacker is a more intelligent player and positions himself better so doesn't have to make those slides and tackles. He is also a good leader and is really important in keeping the back four playing as a unit.
    Vertonghen is technically gifted and is much better in the air. They both got their strengths and weaknesses.
    A more fair comparison would be Vermalaen and Vertonghen in which case I would chose Vertonghen. Koscielny has to be in the team and so Mertesacker has to be the obvious partner alongside him.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    Totnum would fail FFP btw..,.
    Who cares. It's not like they'd ever qualify for the champions league anyway :rolleyes:

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by glousck)
    I would have to disagree. Considering Gazidis has come out and said there's a HUGE transfer kitty to be spent, considering he said we could buy Rooney, and even more expensive targets than Rooney, considering the feeling of optimism at the end of the season we all had that with 2-3 great signings we could put in a title challenge, considering how Spurs have strengthened, considering how even without any new signings United/City/Chelsea were already much stronger than us, considering he problem we had with scoring goals last season...

    I don't want to use the word 'disaster' as that seems a bit extreme, but I would be very disappointed in Wenger taking into consideration all the above if we didn't sign anyone. This is the first summer funds have been available, and the world class players are out there, if he refuses to spend and instead sticks to his values over paying that extra few million for a player...there would be major discontent amongst the fanbase. I'm one of Wengers biggest fans but even I'd have a difficult time defending him if we don't sign anyone at all this window other than Sanogo.

    I can see why people's patience is wearing thin, I still think we're going to sign players, but I can understand people getting edgy about the fact it's August tomorrow. It doesn't make anyone less of a fan to be concerned about that fact.
    Well, regarding the whole thing about Gazdis/the press saying we have money, I don't see that as a necessary reason to spend. There was an article by Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian a couple of days ago that I quite liked: 'A big-name transfer has become the comfort food of failing clubs':

    Look at us, that signing said: we are a major force, the sort of club who can attract top talent and pay big money. Manchester City did it with Robinho. It's the signing as advertisement...

    But what's really baffling is when fans start demanding transfers almost for the sake of it, as though they need a £30m deal every summer just to convince themselves they still support a big club...

    Or take Arsenal's sudden desire to spend, something so all-consuming that even Mikel Arteta has started talking about how exciting it is to be competing for big-name players. Arsenal, of course, have not actually signed anybody yet beyond the annual France youth international, but with others there is a horrible sense of clubs rushing around buying anything they clap their eyes on: a Mies van der Rohe chair here, a Turner seascape there, chuck in a Le Corbusier sofa, a Persian carpet and an Isamu Noguchi table – does it all fit together? Never mind, that's what Claudio's for.
    This is exactly what I'm not comfortable with: some people have been saying 'Now that we have the money, I want to see us spend it!' - as opposed to wanting to be less stingy but remain sensible in the market. So yes, I don't see the availability of funds as a good excuse to abandon economics.

    The points about Spurs strengthening, United/Chelsea and are much more easy to agree with, but again, I would think there's a sense of panic about the whole business that's feeding unnecessary ambitions. The term 'world-class striker' has been thrown around far too much without enough discussion about what qualities we actually need to add to the team, and even more importantly about how we might best acquire them; 'world class' has essentially become a synonym for 'big name'. I've said repeatedly that Suarez is a fantastic player, but is he the most efficient solution to our problems? Is he value for money at 55 million? Look at the big-name strikers Arsenal fans have been excited about since around last January - Cavani, then Higuain, then Rooney, and now Suarez: they're all players who are so different from one another that it's ridiculous; the only thing that really binds them into a category is their status. It's stopped people from thinking, which I think is disheartening: again, Suarez is a great player and it's good to be able to have him as an option to consider, but we should be able to see beyond the status of individual players. I think it was Zurich (?) who earlier was talking about how Bernard might fit in if he were to come in - I think that's the only time this window we've really talked about how we might adjust the team without getting a massive signing to play up front (and yes, I'm well aware that Zurich is a huge advocate of Suarez being brought in, but the point still stands).

    But I suppose the real crux is probably the bit I've bolded in your post. I admire the fact that Wenger sticks to his values. I dislike this paradigm of 'modern' football where money is both paramount and undervalued, where integrity towards values are seen as an obstacle to success rather than a framework around which the means to the ends are constructed. Of course, it isn't just a problem with individual clubs or even just football - and for a lot of people it isn't a problem at all, which I can respect. That's a more personal reason, I guess.

    And just a minor note, I would never someone isn't a 'real' fan just because they're criticizing the club. :nah: There are things I dislike about Arsenal as well, though they tend to be concentrated off the field. :p:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Just no.
    What he's saying is pretty fair, though. :dontknow: If you're putting players into a team, you'd want to consider the dynamic of their interplay, not just their individual strengths. I don't think asserting Koscielny-Mertesacker is the best pairing in a Arsenal + Spurs team is ridiculous at all; it's certainly the pairing I'd choose.

    You could argue for a Vertonghen-Mertesacker partnership, but I'd argue Koscielny, as the more disciplined stopper, would still work better with Per.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Would swap metesacker with Vertonghen all day
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Tottenham bought in Soldado + Paulinho

    Chelsea bought in Schurrle, Van Grinkel and got Lukaku back

    City bought Jovetic, Fernandinho, Jesus Navas, and Negrado

    ...Arsenal bought in an U21 black French player from Ligue 2

    99 problems but the pitch aint one
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by yaboy)
    Would swap metesacker with Vertonghen all day
    Would you really? Do you think a Koscielny-Vertonghen partnership makes a lot of tactical sense?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Abiraleft)
    Well, regarding the whole thing about Gazdis/the press saying we have money, I don't see that as a necessary reason to spend. There was an article by Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian a couple of days ago that I quite liked: 'A big-name transfer has become the comfort food of failing clubs':



    This is exactly what I'm not comfortable with: some people have been saying 'Now that we have the money, I want to see us spend it!' - as opposed to wanting to be less stingy but remain sensible in the market. So yes, I don't see the availability of funds as a good excuse to abandon economics.

    The points about Spurs strengthening, United/Chelsea and are much more easy to agree with, but again, I would think there's a sense of panic about the whole business that's feeding unnecessary ambitions. The term 'world-class striker' has been thrown around far too much without enough discussion about what qualities we actually need to add to the team, and even more importantly about how we might best acquire them; 'world class' has essentially become a synonym for 'big name'. I've said repeatedly that Suarez is a fantastic player, but is he the most efficient solution to our problems? Is he value for money at 55 million? Look at the big-name strikers Arsenal fans have been excited about since around last January - Cavani, then Higuain, then Rooney, and now Suarez: they're all players who are so different from one another that it's ridiculous; the only thing that really binds them into a category is their status. It's stopped people from thinking, which I think is disheartening: again, Suarez is a great player and it's good to be able to have him as an option to consider, but we should be able to see beyond the status of individual players. I think it was Zurich (?) who earlier was talking about how Bernard might fit in if he were to come in - I think that's the only time this window we've really talked about how we might adjust the team without getting a massive signing to play up front (and yes, I'm well aware that Zurich is a huge advocate of Suarez being brought in, but the point still stands).

    But I suppose the real crux is probably the bit I've bolded in your post. I admire the fact that Wenger sticks to his values. I dislike this paradigm of 'modern' football where money is both paramount and undervalued, where integrity towards values are seen as an obstacle to success rather than a framework around which the means to the ends are constructed. Of course, it isn't just a problem with individual clubs or even just football - and for a lot of people it isn't a problem at all, which I can respect. That's a more personal reason, I guess.

    And just a minor note, I would never someone isn't a 'real' fan just because they're criticizing the club. :nah: There are things I dislike about Arsenal as well, though they tend to be concentrated off the field. :p:
    The bottom line -regardless of anything else - is that we lack quality in certain areas (up front being one them) and we definitely lack quality in depth. If we want to compete, especially on three cup fronts and the league, we need more players and we need BETTER players.

    That requires spending money. I don't think anybody really would have wanted us to spend 55 million on Suarez, but that price is looking necessary because we have sat and watched almost every other option (by which I mean a player who is of the quality we need, available, and willing to come to us) pass us by.

    And as I said earlier, although it's obvious that we need to wait and see what happens in the next 30 days, and that we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, it's still understandable why people are becoming frustrated/anxious. We're watching the teams around us strengthen and we're watching our options for improvements moving elsewhere. I don't want Wenger to spend the money "just because he has it", but I want him to spend it because if he doesn't, we will move backwards as a club while everybody around us moves forward.
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

This forum is supported by:
Updated: August 26, 2013
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.