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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Because the answer is inconvenient I presume. Maybe Mark Regev, or Cadharin, knows the answer?


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    To be fair I'd rather be Mark Regev than Ismail Haniyeh.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    I'm not avoiding the argument, I'm proposing one: that Israel is a free country, and Islamic states are not.
    You want to change the subject. You are avoiding the argument.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    No, but that's hardly the most important thing.
    Yes it is. It is a crime. In fact they were accused of restricting supply based on calories !!!!. Who does that.....
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    To be fair I'd rather be Mark Regev than Ismail Haniyeh.
    Mark Regev is an apologist for snipers of children.


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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    You want to change the subject. You are avoiding the argument.
    The subject was about what constitutes a free country. I'm claiming that a state in which there is no free speech or free democracy is not a free country.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Mark Regev is an apologist for snipers of children.


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    Even if that is true, he is at least defending a democracy. Haniyeh defends tyranny.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    The subject was about what constitutes a free country. I'm claiming that a state in which there is no free speech or free democracy is not a free country.
    What country? Are we talking about Palestine here? Because they don't have a country remember.

    You can't just dictate the terms of the discussion and refuse to answer inconvenient issues like for example Israel deciding that international law shouldn't apply to them
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Even if that is true, he is at least defending a democracy. Haniyeh defends tyranny.
    What good is a country being a democracy if it commits war crimes?


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    What good is a country being a democracy if it commits war crimes?


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    ^ yes
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    If Hamas are terrorists God knows what the IDF is.


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    thankyou
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Even if that is true, he is at least defending a democracy. Haniyeh defends tyranny.
    wow they've got you brainwashed pretty good havnt they
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Never said the West Bank was free did I.
    The West Bank is in Isreal, no?
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Well there is this for a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic...and_background
    Fair, but they're quite a bit smaller and we're talking a few years earlier at any rate.
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    (Original post by Kolasinac138)
    The West Bank is in Isreal, no?
    Um, no. PA citizens are not Israeli citizens.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Fair, but they're quite a bit smaller and we're talking a few years earlier at any rate.
    Wait, wasn't Hamas founded in 1987 or something? The thing I linked to said it started in 1981.

    At any rate, Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood, which has existed for ages and has always opposed Israel (to my knowledge).
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    What good is a country being a democracy if it commits war crimes?


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    Those "war crimes" would not occur if its neighbours didn't have any trouble with its existence. Hamas keeps on provoking war, presumably with the intention of gaining the support of gullible folks such as yourself.

    Anyway, whether or not a country is free is my primary method of distinguishing whether or not I want it to exist.
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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    What country? Are we talking about Palestine here? Because they don't have a country remember.

    You can't just dictate the terms of the discussion and refuse to answer inconvenient issues like for example Israel deciding that international law shouldn't apply to them
    There isn't really any such thing as international law. Who decides those laws, and who enforces them? If it's the UN then we know it's a farce, because the UN is a tyrants' club and nobody should listen to a word they say. I support free, democratic societies, and from everything I've seen, the Israelis are the only people in the middle east (with few exceptions - notably the Kurds, and obviously voiceless minorities) who actually want that.

    I thought we were talking about the pragmatic consequences of allowing a Palestinian state to exist.

    Where I lose my alliance with Zionists is in the "Jewish state" aspect of Israel. I don't support it because it's the Jewish state, I support it because it's the democracy. In my view, the best solution would be for everyone in the occupied territories (or whatever you want to call them) to become Israeli citizens, but I know that not many people share that view, unfortunately.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Those "war crimes" would not occur if its neighbours didn't have any trouble with its existence. Hamas keeps on provoking war, presumably with the intention of gaining the support of gullible folks such as yourself.

    Anyway, whether or not a country is free is my primary method of distinguishing whether or not I want it to exist.
    It's neighbours want a sovereign nation of their own, what's so detestable about that? Is it not enough for you that the Zionists booted people off their land to satisfy their desire for a Jewish state?

    I also find your inverted commas for war crimes to be laughable. If sniping kids isn't a war crime God knows what is. The only gullible people here are those like you who believe that Israel is the victim and that Palestine is the aggressor. Who occupied whose territory for goodness' sake?


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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    There isn't really any such thing as international law. Who decides those laws, and who enforces them? If it's the UN then we know it's a farce, because the UN is a tyrants' club and nobody should listen to a word they say. I support free, democratic societies, and from everything I've seen, the Israelis are the only people in the middle east (with few exceptions - notably the Kurds, and obviously voiceless minorities) who actually want that.

    I thought we were talking about the pragmatic consequences of allowing a Palestinian state to exist.

    Where I lose my alliance with Zionists is in the "Jewish state" aspect of Israel. I don't support it because it's the Jewish state, I support it because it's the democracy. In my view, the best solution would be for everyone in the occupied territories (or whatever you want to call them) to become Israeli citizens, but I know that not many people share that view, unfortunately.
    What are they putting in the Tel Aviv water Mark?


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    It's neighbours want a sovereign nation of their own, what's so detestable about that? Is it not enough for you that the Zionists booted people off their land to satisfy their desire for a Jewish state?

    I also find your inverted commas for war crimes to be laughable. If sniping kids isn't a war crime God knows what is. The only gullible people here are those like you who believe that Israel is the victim and that Palestine is the aggressor. Who occupied whose territory for goodness' sake?


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    If that's all they wanted then it would be fine. Unfortunately they also want an end to Israel. They have said so many times.
 
 
 
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