Do you consider UKIP good or bad? Watch

NooNoo1
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the thing with UKIP is that they claim they are not racist or homophobic but the members actions do not support this for example Godfrey Bloom.
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thatgr
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(Original post by RobertsClan)
It doesn't cost us billions being a member of the EU in fact we receive much more money to subsidise things like back to work programmes, training and money to reduce pollution from agriculture are just a few.

Not being in the EU won't help fighting terrorism either. I'm afraid anyone suggesting all UKIP stands for isn't able to see the bigger picture. UKIP are just the BNP in suits, an interview with the founder of UKIP was in the Guardian newspaper he left the party because of the racism and prejudice in the party and the desire that many members of the party, including Nigel Farage had to recruit BNP candidates to UKIP.

I also find it ironic that he doesn't want to allow European immigrants into the UK but his wife is German. Doesn't that make her an immigrant?


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The problem with most people on here is that they don't understand what UKIP stands for, it does want to allow in European immigrants, but only those who make a difference. They aren't going to ban every single person coming in because even UKIP knows some immigration is important. UKIP recognises the contribution immigrants have to the economy, but they want to get rid of the immigrants who have a negative impact on the economy, who come here to scrounge. If a polish guy or girl wants to come in here as they have been offered a job, they will be allowed in. If a person with no job on offer, and no way to survive wants to come to England, he would be told sorry, but we don't have the time to look after you
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slade p
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ukip is good on their position on europe.
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The Dictator
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
No, I was 6 when it was introduced, but you completely ignore the actual point - that is that the minimum wage is an important thing since it guarantees those in employment a living wage: you take that away and allow companies to pay as little as they like, and wages, particularly for the younger members of the workforce, will fall. Having high employment means nothing if wages are low, that much is obvious.
It is alright for large established companies that can pay far above the minimum wage, but for small-scale and medium-sized companies that cannot afford it is a problem which is preventing employment and economic growth. Now, it is true that some unscrupulous businesses may take advantage of this and pay as little as they want, but the wonderful thing about Capitalism is that if you feel your skills are under-valued, another company can simply make you a better deal with a more favourable contract and higher wages, and there is nothing stopping you from toddling off to join them.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by zippity.doodah)
how is that their new logo? where did you even find that?
It's the hydra logo (the baddies in Captain America) recoloured to the UKIP colours. Essentially just saying they're nazis.

(Original post by The Dictator)
It is alright for large established companies that can pay far above the minimum wage, but for small-scale and medium-sized companies that cannot afford it is a problem which is preventing employment and economic growth. Now, it is true that some unscrupulous businesses may take advantage of this and pay as little as they want, but the wonderful thing about Capitalism is that if you feel your skills are under-valued, another company can simply make you a better deal with a more favourable contract and higher wages, and there is nothing stopping you from toddling off to join them.
You keep talking of raising employment, but you completely miss the issue. If we raise employment by dropping the minimum wage (from what you're saying, it's quite clear you think that the wages need reducing in order to increase employment) then we have the same basic issue we had before. While the number of people unemployed is down, the welfare bill is up to compensate for the amount of people then earning less than a basic living wage.
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The Dictator
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
It's the hydra logo (the baddies in Captain America) recoloured to the UKIP colours. Essentially just saying they're nazis.



You keep talking of raising employment, but you completely miss the issue. If we raise employment by dropping the minimum wage (from what you're saying, it's quite clear you think that the wages need reducing in order to increase employment) then we have the same basic issue we had before. While the number of people unemployed is down, the welfare bill is up to compensate for the amount of people then earning less than a basic living wage.
Which is better, people employed on low wages or some people employed with really good wages and some with no jobs at all and living off benefits?
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geokinkladze
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(Original post by RumpeIstiltskin)
Maybe, but understanding what you mean from a sentence that makes no sense is.
There's only so much dumbing down one can subject oneself to dear boy.

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geokinkladze
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(Original post by NooNoo1)
the thing with UKIP is that they claim they are not racist or homophobic but the members actions do not support this for example Godfrey Bloom.
So Lord Rennard must tar all Liberal Democrats with the same brush in your eyes then. There's a long list of Labour party members resigned after allegations of Racism

To be honest, if you want a sterile party devoid of any thoughts outside the party line then the main parties clearly strive for that, but they ultimately fail. I kind of like the idea of a party that attracts alternative points of view. The Lib Dems used to be great for that.
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NooNoo1
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(Original post by geokinkladze)
So Lord Rennard must tar all Liberal Democrats with the same brush in your eyes then. There's a long list of Labour party members resigned after allegations of Racism

To be honest, if you want a sterile party devoid of any thoughts outside the party line then the main parties clearly strive for that, but they ultimately fail. I kind of like the idea of a party that attracts alternative points of view. The Lib Dems used to be great for that.
okk....whatever floats your boat
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NooNoo1
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i just personally feel that UKIP are a hypocritical party and a nicer version of BNP but everyone is entitled to their opinions
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geokinkladze
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(Original post by NooNoo1)
okk....whatever floats your boat
Simple question, do you vote for a party that doesn't have racist or homophobic members?

If so can you tell me who?
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geokinkladze
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(Original post by NooNoo1)
everyone is entitled to their opinions
...apart from members of political parties eh?
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NooNoo1
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(Original post by geokinkladze)
Simple question, do you vote for a party that doesn't have racist or homophobic members?

If so can you tell me who?
Yes but on a scale UKIP members seem to have many more racist/homophobic members than any other party..
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NooNoo1
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(Original post by geokinkladze)
...apart from members of political parties eh?
well yea but they can still express their opinions but may loose their job after
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by The Dictator)
Which is better, people employed on low wages or some people employed with really good wages and some with no jobs at all and living off benefits?
Some employed, some not but with a liveable wage if employed. We're not talking low pay, we're talking shifting a lot of people below the poverty line under the pretence of making everything better by having everyone employed.


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geokinkladze
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(Original post by NooNoo1)
Yes but on a scale UKIP members seem to have many more racist/homophobic members than any other party..
I guess you never saw the Newsnight article pointing out all the scandals that hit parties, as picked up by local press but not national? The number of parties and the associated stories were incredible, not one hit national news, yet the 6 month old story of a UKIP member tweeting that she believed marriage between homosexuals was wrong was printed in a national newspaper days before the elections.

I tend to judge newspapers not by the articles they run but the ones they don't and in both senses the Guardian and the Mail are perfect examples of an exercise in mass-hypnosis.

You can of course just sit back and let it all wash over you but then, if you weren't just a little curious you wouldn't be here would you?
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RumpeIstiltskin
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(Original post by geokinkladze)
There's only so much dumbing down one can subject oneself to dear boy.

Why are you even on a student forum? It must feel good to be right about everything and to have a superior knowledge about everything than anyone else. I suppose if Godrey Bloom is anything to go by UKIP have nothing better to do than take part in unimportant student debates while you're not pointless boycotting some trivial matter.
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Dani California
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(Original post by Rooster523)
UKIP are bad because:

1) They wish to remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the EU court of human rights. You heard me, UKIP wants the UK not to have to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.

2) 'No to political correctness'- basically they'd like to create a platform where racist/homophobic/islamaphobic statements are no longer frowned upon. They say PC stifles free speech, I say not having it segregates society.

3) Their entire immigration policy is based on fear and intolerance. 'Immigrants put pressure on the healthcare system'- Nope, the elderly put pressure on the healthcare system and arguably, the NHS wouldn't function without immigrants.- this is one example, there's many more but I'm not really in the mood to list every single one.

4) Their policies are based on idealisms, not realisms. They want lower taxes but more police on the streets, improved roads. Fair enough- but where's that money going to come from?

5) Their immigration policy will see an increase in homelessness and crimes committed by immigrants. 'Immigrants must financially support themselves for 5 years before receiving state help'. Example: A migrant worker works in the UK for 2 years, brings his family here, things are looking good. Company he works for gets made redundant, can no longer afford things, is not entitled to benefits or any state help. Begins stealing to provide for his family.


Just a few I can think of off the top of my head
Somewhat misinformed. UKIP wants to scrap the human rights act to replace it with a new one that does not protect criminals. Why you like having your speech regulated is beyond me. The immigration policy is based on "national pride," apparently, or something along those lines. I'll give it to you about idealisms, they seem to think withdrawal from the EU will save enough money to fund everything, which it wont.
And the immigration policy is brilliant. Immigrants pay for thereselves for five years, then after that, recieve the benefits of all other tax payers. If at any point they can not provide for thereselves, or are caught theiving, they are deported. Basically, abide the law, you're safe.
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plasmaman
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UKIP have done good by restimulating the debate on Europe. This is an issue Labour/Tories try to avoid but will soon enough have to address. The more discussion the when it comes to the EU the better as it means we can consider a future without it rather than just letting it exist virtually unoticed as if our membership of it is arbitrary
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geokinkladze
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(Original post by RumpeIstiltskin)
It must feel good to be right about everything and to have a superior knowledge about everything than anyone else.
Quite the contrary, testing ones argument is the only way to know if one is sure about its merits.

The trick is not to get too touchy.

(Original post by RumpeIstiltskin)
I suppose if Godrey Bloom is anything to go by UKIP have nothing better to do than take part in unimportant student debates while you're not pointless boycotting some trivial matter.
Re my previous point, I never find debate pointless.. only pointless debates.
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