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"Shootings" reported in central Paris. watch

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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    "Brah", look at the numbers of Muslims in Europe. Islamification is happening. Look at the migration crisis "brah". Then come back to me with your leftie claptrap.
    Between 35 and 50% of fourth generation descendants of muslim immigrants don't identify with a religion. The projected stats are completely wrong, because they assume all muslims, and all their descendants, including those with half-indigenous heritage will remain muslim. If you call islamification the secularisation of european muslims such that the majority of them are willing to sell alcohol in their restaurants, you're a little confused.
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    (Original post by thaifrenchie)
    Hi I'm from Paris and am really shocked by what has happened here. I don't quite know who's fault it really is - I mean obviously it's those ***** of terrorists - but I'm just really mad that they actually manage to scare me... I mean I was supposed to go shopping tomorrow at la Defense (huge business and shopping area outside of Paris) but because of this my parents don't want me too and frankly I wanted to. I wanted to show that I don't give a damn about these people who "scare" me but the truth is, they do scare me, I mean I'm even afraid that while I'm gone somewhere my brothers might get shot :'( it's a horrible feeling. These people believe that they can choose when I live or die...
    On top of it I feel like we are living such useless lives - I'm here talking about my feelings while some SAMU are counting the numerous deaths at the Bataclan...
    I don't know I just feel like all of this is ****ed up. Sorry for the language.
    I feel so torn between blaming people and at the same time thinking blaming isn't going to change what happened. But how? How can I help? What can I do?
    Anyways I hope each and everyone of you is safe and I'm thinking wholeheartedly about everyone tonight, be grateful for people around you and remember to respect others as much as yourself. I'm so over by how each country is being so thoughtful.
    Anyways this was a bit of a useless post (sorry!)
    Hope you're holding up ok! :yy: Thoughts are with everyone there in Paris.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    It seems to me it does.

    Intelligence services marginalise individuals > Marginalisation leads to being "led astray" >

    What am i missing?
    We have an already marginalised community. Further marginalising of them is not needed is all I have said as they might get led astray. Led astray implies the same way that most marginalised individual are led astray. The most vulnerable in society are always prey to ideologues, in this case those who are preaching Islamism. I am saying that we need to be careful not to isolate more individuals and have them being led astray by such ideologies.

    You are correct however that it is a fruitless excercise in the sense that killing jihadi john is a fruitless excercise. Its like whackamole. Until Islam undergoes a reformation (Which it isn't going to in my lifetime) .. wherever muslims are found, a smaller number of fundamentalists will be there too ready blow themselves and pack of innocent civilians up
    Progressive Muslims do exist, though they are small in numbers. But I believe Progressive Islam is our greatest weapon against Islamism. Rather than isolating an already isolated community in the West and pushing them into the hands of Islamist preachers, maybe we should be doing more to challenge the current interpretation of Islam by Muslims in the West and show that there are more interpretation out there that are more progressive?

    This is why for example I have challenged the idea that homosexuality is not permissible of Islam. Why should it be so? I believe in fact that good arguments can be put forward for a more progressive interpretation of Islam and that it presents just as legitimate an interpretation as Islamism.
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3513997
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    (Original post by Hasan_Ahmed)
    Kosovo, Albania, and Bosnia?
    All have had incidents and Kosovo was effectively wiped out by NATO.
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    (Original post by thaifrenchie)
    Hi I'm from Paris and am really shocked by what has happened here. I don't quite know who's fault it really is - I mean obviously it's those ***** of terrorists - but I'm just really mad that they actually manage to scare me... I mean I was supposed to go shopping tomorrow at la Defense (huge business and shopping area outside of Paris) but because of this my parents don't want me too and frankly I wanted to. I wanted to show that I don't give a damn about these people who "scare" me but the truth is, they do scare me, I mean I'm even afraid that while I'm gone somewhere my brothers might get shot :'( it's a horrible feeling. These people believe that they can choose when I live or die...
    On top of it I feel like we are living such useless lives - I'm here talking about my feelings while some SAMU are counting the numerous deaths at the Bataclan...
    I don't know I just feel like all of this is ****ed up. Sorry for the language.
    I feel so torn between blaming people and at the same time thinking blaming isn't going to change what happened. But how? How can I help? What can I do?
    Anyways I hope each and everyone of you is safe and I'm thinking wholeheartedly about everyone tonight, be grateful for people around you and remember to respect others as much as yourself. I'm so over by how each country is being so thoughtful.
    Anyways this was a bit of a useless post (sorry!)
    Stay safe
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    BBC News: Deadliest violence in Paris since World War 2.
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    (Original post by thaifrenchie)
    Hi I'm from Paris and am really shocked by what has happened here. I don't quite know who's fault it really is - I mean obviously it's those ***** of terrorists - but I'm just really mad that they actually manage to scare me... I mean I was supposed to go shopping tomorrow at la Defense (huge business and shopping area outside of Paris) but because of this my parents don't want me too and frankly I wanted to. I wanted to show that I don't give a damn about these people who "scare" me but the truth is, they do scare me, I mean I'm even afraid that while I'm gone somewhere my brothers might get shot :'( it's a horrible feeling. These people believe that they can choose when I live or die...
    On top of it I feel like we are living such useless lives - I'm here talking about my feelings while some SAMU are counting the numerous deaths at the Bataclan...
    I don't know I just feel like all of this is ****ed up. Sorry for the language.
    I feel so torn between blaming people and at the same time thinking blaming isn't going to change what happened. But how? How can I help? What can I do?
    Anyways I hope each and everyone of you is safe and I'm thinking wholeheartedly about everyone tonight, be grateful for people around you and remember to respect others as much as yourself. I'm so over by how each country is being so thoughtful.
    Anyways this was a bit of a useless post (sorry!)
    Everything will be closed.
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    (Original post by Fidus Achates)
    There's lots of attacks all over the world in Muslim countries.

    Turkey is secular but has an Islamist party and loves AKP and Erdogan - attacks.
    Pakistan - Karachi gets blown to bits all the time.
    Syria - don't even need to say a word.

    Then Islam in Europe - higher the population, higher the threat level and the attack incidence rate. The one country in Eastern Europe with a high Muslim population, Bulgaria, has also been victim to an attack in recent times.

    Why haven't they attacked Romania, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc.? Loads of countries have contributed to the war effort one way or another but do not have high Muslim populations and are therefore not under as much of a threat.

    Islam is spreading like a virus and infecting healthy parts of the world with its backward cohesive ideological nonsense. It is the religious equivalent of a vulgar raping and pillaging British Empire that spread around the world enforcing British life upon settlements. It is that backward mindset that holds us back. The difference is when the Empire did it, everyone looks back on it with disgust because it was politically driven, but because Islam is a religion and is religiously driven, its become ****ing untouchable and you cant even criticise it without some toff without a life getting all awkward and twitchy about it. Its pathetic.
    Albania, kosovo, macedonia, bosnia? Also, not many of these attacks are happening in stable muslim majority countries like Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Caucases nations, muslim republics of russia, Maldives, etc.
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    The Eagles of Death Metal will be the most famous band in the world tomorrow.
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    (Original post by thaifrenchie)
    Hi I'm from Paris and am really shocked by what has happened here. I don't quite know who's fault it really is - I mean obviously it's those ***** of terrorists - but I'm just really mad that they actually manage to scare me... I mean I was supposed to go shopping tomorrow at la Defense (huge business and shopping area outside of Paris) but because of this my parents don't want me too and frankly I wanted to. I wanted to show that I don't give a damn about these people who "scare" me but the truth is, they do scare me, I mean I'm even afraid that while I'm gone somewhere my brothers might get shot :'( it's a horrible feeling. These people believe that they can choose when I live or die...
    On top of it I feel like we are living such useless lives - I'm here talking about my feelings while some SAMU are counting the numerous deaths at the Bataclan...
    I don't know I just feel like all of this is ****ed up. Sorry for the language.
    I feel so torn between blaming people and at the same time thinking blaming isn't going to change what happened. But how? How can I help? What can I do?
    Anyways I hope each and everyone of you is safe and I'm thinking wholeheartedly about everyone tonight, be grateful for people around you and remember to respect others as much as yourself. I'm so over by how each country is being so thoughtful.
    Anyways this was a bit of a useless post (sorry!)
    A lot of people like me are as confused as you. What will happen? What can we do? Honestly I have no idea, but we've just to go hoping as humans we can get past these damned events.
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    (Original post by Fidus Achates)
    All have had incidents and Kosovo was effectively wiped out by NATO.
    Kosovo was not 'wiped out' and the other two countries have hardly seen any instability since the time of the collapse of yugoslavia.
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    (Original post by generic_man)
    Haha, and right-wingers don't? German has let in more refugees during this crisis than any other country and they're led by a right-wing Christian democrat.
    People on TSR are weird. They like to make things absolute - either left or right wing. There's this, and the EU.

    Lots of people say on TSR that the EU is only embraced by left-wing loonies etc when the UK Conservative government is campaigning to stay, whilst the Leader of the Labour Party is a Eurosceptic.
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    (Original post by Hasan_Ahmed)
    Albania, kosovo, macedonia, bosnia? Also, not many of these attacks are happening in stable muslim majority countries like Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Caucases nations, muslim republics of russia, Maldives, etc.
    The problem is you don't seem to understand that:

    a) not every Muslim nation will become stable because due to its faction like nature there will always be a power struggle of political/militant Islam
    b) those who are living in stabler Muslim nations are more likely to stay there, as opposed to those living in dire conditions who move abroad in an attempt to spread their hatred - i.e. the minority speaking the loudest and ruining it for everyone
    c) even by fair standards, the most stable Muslim nations are still a far cry from acceptable on many issues by standards set elsewhere
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Why?



    If you wish to love those who wish to destroy you then that is your right.



    Only about 20 million more across Europe then and they will have all of them. Until the new lot of migrants arrive, but for now sure.



    I'm disgusted that you think you can pull the wool over my eyes.
    So about half of all Muslims then or 40% living in Europe? You wanna kill almost half of ALL the Muslims in Europe? You're insane.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)


    An extremist Muslim wants to kill you. A moderate Muslim wants an extremist to kill you.
    Ridiculous.
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    modern leftist = YOU GUYS ARE RACIST AND OPPRESSIVE HOW DARE YOU SAY MUSLIMS KILLED PEOPLE THEY ARE THE REAL VICTIMS HERE
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Progressive Muslims do exist, though they are small in numbers. But I believe Progressive Islam is our greatest weapon against Islamism. Rather than isolating an already isolated community in the West and pushing them into the hands of Islamist preachers, maybe we should be doing more to challenge the current interpretation of Islam by Muslims in the West and show that there are more interpretation out there that are more progressive?

    This is why for example I have challenged the idea that homosexuality is not permissible of Islam. Why should it be so? I believe in fact that good arguments can be put forward for a more progressive interpretation of Islam and that it presents just as legitimate an interpretation as Islamism.
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3513997
    This is a nice idea, but I wonder if it could be put into practice. I have a feeling that the "corruption" of their "values" might cause some extremist Muslims to retaliate(The formation of ISIS is a prime example). Many religions also prefer to cling to tradition, as in the case of Catholics vs Protestants (although I am not trying to judge either religion, I know there are reasons for this). That said, challenging the philosophy rather than outright attacking Islam or ISIS would be much better if we could get it to work. Sadly I'm not sure if it would happen. (Not necessarily disagreeing btw, just examining the idea)
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    (Original post by Hasan_Ahmed)
    Kosovo was not 'wiped out' and the other two countries have hardly seen any instability since the time of the collapse of yugoslavia.
    Kosovo was effectively wiped out by NATO.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    How about whilst all this "reforming" goes on Islam stays out of Europe, and when Islam is willing to become part of a civilised society it can be let back in? You know, when hell freezes over? This is not unavoidable -Merkel in particular needs to know this. Unforgivable yes, not unavoidable.
    It doesn't work like that. You're not going to kick out millions of people from europe whose families have lived here peacefully for generations, including people who have come to islam from european backgrounds. You're not going to somehow remove upwards of 2% of the populations of countries like Kosovo, Albania, Bosnia, France, or wipe populations from muslim majority regions of countries like Bulgaria, Macedonia, etc.
    So you better get helping muslims teaching non-aggression-principle forms of Islam like Tariq Ramadan to make hell freeze over for european muslims asap and stop wasting time trying to get things to happen that will never happen.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    It's not necessarily Muslims or any other ethnic group.

    It's more the general acceptance of a huge number of outsiders to cover up for the home society's problems, created by Leftists. And if not that, then a blind, ideological desire to accept the outsider, no matter what the risks involved.

    In this case, accepting millions of refugees, who ISIS have stated publicly they will infiltrate terrorists with. At the same time, Corbyn and Labour scream hysterically about having an open border with Syria.

    So let's be clear: this is 100% the fault of the Left. These deaths rest on their shoulders. Whatever one's religion or ethnicity, if one is emotionally driven enough to accept terrorists into one's country, then it is that person's fault when something like this happens.
    Indeed. We should blame this on the ultra left wing Queen of Europe, Merkel, who lets muslims rush in a few months ago. Her party should stop calling themselves right wing because that is impossible.

    Same thing with David Cameron. Shame on him leading a right wing party yet allowed tens of thousands of muslim refugees in.
 
 
 
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