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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV Watch

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    (Original post by quentinhamilton)
    Well it is humane for one to side Palestine. We are all aware that Israel are practically trying to overtake a land which never was labelled 'Israel' also the vast casualties in Palestine requires us to be more sympathetic towards the innocent.
    Lets forget the government's corruption and lets focus more on humanity
    Eh, if the people elected Hamas knowing full well of their methods then I have no sympathy for them at all. Also, if Hamas weren't incompetent the Israeli casualty rate would be pretty high.
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    (Original post by ExcitedPup)

    As to "ridiculous Zionist propaganda", Zionism means that you believe that the State of Israel has a right to exist. Nothing wrong with Zionism.

    Maybe if you weren't so brainwashed by psuedo-pro-Palestinian agitprop (pseudo because the people calling on the Palestinians to fight are happy to sit comfortably in their Western armchairs, while the dream of a Palestinian state gets further and further away) then you would realise how far you've crossed the line into blatant anti-semitism,
    There is nothing wrong with 'Jewish nationalism' yet when there's a deliberate force to completely take-over an indigenous land then distinctly that's ridiculous.
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    oh yeah cos being anti israeli is obv anti-semitism

    zionist israelis are repulsive, murderous pieces of ****
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    (Original post by small_circles)
    A political movement set up by secular irreligious Jews with a view in mind to set up a Jewish state
    Right. That doesn't seem to be an ignoble goal.

    going against traditional jewish teachings
    Actually, it doesn't. There are a very broad and diverse range of traditional Jewish religious views, including many who were in favour of Zionism.

    In any case, why does the fact that some religious people opposed it have any impact on the justifiability of the policy? Unless you would equally claim that gay marriage should not be permitted on the basis that religious people oppose it

    with a huge indifferent attitude towards anyone who doesn't agree with them.
    You were doing so well, and you had to go and confirm your prejudice on this subject. Being inherently prejudiced on this is not going to contribute to the likelihood of peace, it simply makes each side more and more stubborn in their views.
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    (Original post by quentinhamilton)
    There is nothing wrong with 'Jewish nationalism'
    Excellent. I'm glad you agree that there is nothing inherently objectionable about Zionism.

    yet when there's a deliberate force to completely take-over an indigenous land then distinctly that's ridiculous.
    Indigenous? Where do you think the word Jerusalem comes from? Is it an Arabic word?
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    (Original post by ExcitedPup)
    Do Israelis soldiers just kill Palestinian children for no reason, for fun? Or is there a bit more context to the unfortunate deaths of Palestinian children during IDF operations?
    The soldiers killing the children equates to no future in Palestine therefore, the Israeli soldiers certainly do not kill the Palestinian children for 'no reason'
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    Misleading title putting "Anti semitism" and "Pro-Palestinian" together. You just asked what zionism someone what zionism is. You are clearly lack any knowledge to comment on such an issue if you do not even know the political ideology Israel is based upon lol.
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    (Original post by golden tribe)
    God forbid anyone speaking out of ethnic cleansing of people from their lands. Maybe in 60 years time palestinians will be able to use tge victIm card and take over another nation
    What ethnic cleansing? The population of Palestine has grown enormously over the past 60 years. The Arab population of Israel is growing faster than the Jewish population, is it not?
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    (Original post by Protégé)
    Eh, if the people elected Hamas knowing full well of their methods then I have no sympathy for them at all. Also, if Hamas weren't incompetent the Israeli casualty rate would be pretty high.
    It has nothing to do with competence. Israeli casualties were much higher in earlier conflicts.

    The reason they have managed to get them down is because they perfected the Iron Dome defence system, and a system of air raid warnings and shelters.

    Having said that, the rockets are still very damaging in the sense that continuous bombardment brings Israeli society to complete standstill, it is traumatic for children, people cannot live their lives. And of course, there were significant Israeli casualties in 2014 when they sent their soldiers into the strip to root out some of the terrorists and rocket factories
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    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    You just asked what zionism someone what zionism is. You are clearly.
    And you clearly lack anything resembling basic reading comprehension.

    I asked him to define it. Are you able to define it? I doubt it
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    (Original post by quentinhamilton)
    The soldiers killing the children equates to no future in Palestine
    Do you have any evidence for this conspiracy theory that Israel is trying to kill off the future generation?

    They seem to be doing a pretty poor job of it given only about 12,000 Palestinians have died from Israeli action in the last 60 years, and in the same time their population has increased by something like 2.5 million

    I'd also be most gratified if you could explain, if Israel wants to take over more Palestine in its entirety, why it pulled out of the Gaza Strip in 2005? Or didn't you know about that?
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    (Original post by ExcitedPup)
    It has nothing to do with competence. Israeli casualties were much higher in earlier conflicts.

    The reason they have managed to get them down is because they perfected the Iron Dome defence system, and a system of air raid warnings and shelters.

    Having said that, the rockets are still very damaging in the sense that continuous bombardment brings Israeli society to complete standstill, it is traumatic for children, people cannot live their lives. And of course, there were significant Israeli casualties in 2014 when they sent their soldiers into the strip to root out some of the terrorists and rocket factories
    Aren't you just reinforcing my argument though? If Hamas were better at permeating the Israeli defence it would lead to more Israeli casualties, correct?
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    (Original post by hdindak)
    oh yeah cos being anti israeli is obv anti-semitism
    The video didn't say that, I didn't say that. Though being "anti-Israeli" in and of itself is definitely xenophobic, and one would have to question why you are openly xenophobic only about the world's single Jewish state.

    But no, criticism of Israeli policy is not anti-semitic; after all, there is a rigorous debate in Israel itself about its policies.

    zionist israelis
    And how would you define Zionist? Almost anyone who is Jewish and lives in Israel is zionist, given it means support for a Jewish homeland/state. You are basically saying that 99% of the Israeli population are scum. Nice
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    I'm pro- Palestinian on the Israel/Palestine issue and so are a lot of British Jews. Israel has only itself to blame, I predict another "mowing" of the "lawn" in Gaza by Israel this coming June/July.
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    (Original post by Protégé)
    Aren't you just reinforcing my argument though? If Hamas were better at permeating the Israeli defence it would lead to more Israeli casualties, correct?
    I don't think its an issue of competence, I think they fundamentally lack the economic and technological resources to overcome the Israeli air defence system. In that case, I don't think it's an issue of the competence of their fighters, if anything Hamas are formidable opponents to Israel and they managed to keep up a high rate of rocket fire even under a withering counter-bombardment.

    I find Hamas revolting, I find their positive desire for more Palestinian deaths (for propaganda reasons) deeply unpleasant. But I wouldn't say they lack skill or bravery in carrying out their missions
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    (Original post by ExcitedPup)
    Excellent. I'm glad you agree that there is nothing inherently objectionable about Zionism.



    Indigenous? Where do you think the word Jerusalem comes from? Is it an Arabic word?
    I don't know where the current crop of Jews came from but its certainly not Jerusalem.
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    (Original post by LivngForSummer)
    I'm pro- Palestinian on the Israel/Palestine issue and so are a lot of British Jews
    Are you a British Jew?

    Israel has only itself to blame, I predict another "mowing" of the "lawn" in Gaza by Israel this coming June/July.
    So what is your take on Israel's pullout from the Gaza strip in 2005?
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    (Original post by ExcitedPup)
    I don't think its an issue of competence, I think they fundamentally lack the economic and technological resources to overcome the Israeli air defence system. In that case, I don't think it's an issue of the competence of their fighters, if anything Hamas are formidable opponents to Israel and they managed to keep up a high rate of rocket fire even under a withering counter-bombardment.

    I find Hamas revolting, I find their positive desire for more Palestinian deaths (for propaganda reasons) deeply unpleasant. But I wouldn't say they lack skill or bravery in carrying out their missions
    Ah, I understand.

    So which side do you support?
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    What ethnic cleansing? The population of Palestine has grown enormously over the past 60 years. The Arab population of Israel is growing faster than the Jewish population, is it not?
    The population has grown INSPITE of Israel's ethnic cleansing. The area has always had a larger Palestinian population throughout history and they tend to have lots of kids per family.
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    (Original post by Protégé)
    Ah, I understand.

    So which side do you support?
    I don't see myself as a partisan supporting a side. I do, however, absolutely support the idea of the State of Israel, and I believe Israel was mainly on the defensive from 1948 to the late 1970s. They were lucky to survive.

    However, I am also very committed to the idea of a two-state solution. I find the West Bank settlements repulsive, and I don't like the ultra-religious Israelis who are constantly whipping up hatred amongst Palestinians, who usually refuse to serve in the army and sit around on welfare having 12 kids.

    I don't particularly like the way Israel has turned to the right in the last 20 years. On the other hand, there have been two very good chances for a comprehensive peace deal, particularly about 10 years ago when Israel pulled out of Gaza completely, and Olmert was ready to do a grand bargain. It is a tragedy that the Palestinians failed to act on that offer.

    Anyway, I think I'm in the most difficult position, that of being a moderate, opposed to both Palestinian militancy and to the extreme religious Jewish element.
 
 
 
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