Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Midlander
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#6921
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#6921
(Original post by 2ndClass)
I was watching a documentary series the BBC recently did, it's called " A History Of Scotland". Absolutely breathtaking. I'm not even Scottish but I felt such a sense of pride for the Scottish people. Throughout their history they've always fought to retain their independence from England no matter what .

I would vote for independence tbh.

Thank you for proving my point.


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Midlander
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#6922
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#6922
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
The list goes on...we would be prone to terror attacks, they say we wont be in the EU but at the same time say the EU will take us for everything we have if we join....which is it? They are scaring on all possible outcomes on the EU...hypocritical beyond belief. They say we won't have a credit rating (ignoring standard and poors assessment of an AAA), they say a financial crisis will cripple us, they say industry will halt, they say power will be centralised in Edinburgh making the distribution of power less( how can more power seriously mean less?) , they say we will have to join the euro but insist on debating on the pound why? They say banks will all leave ( companies don't move when profit is to be made), they say we wont be able to watch doctor who for christs sake despite the fact its enjoyed by 70 odd countries around the world.

Lastly, they say we will lose the social ties, is our English family and friends suddenly going to hate us? I think not.

How any voter can seriously believe Scotland will fall into this apparently imminent anarchy is beyond me. Whats next?

"Scotland will lose all first born in a Yes vote"
I can tell you one thing, English people such as myself don't really appreciate being told that we are all Tory diehards who are less socially aware and less fiscally responsible.


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MatureStudent36
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#6923
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#6923
Interest sting article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...l-figures.html
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Boab
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#6924
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#6924
(Original post by Midlander)
I can tell you one thing, English people such as myself don't really appreciate being told that we are all Tory diehards who are less socially aware and less fiscally responsible.


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As a Scot who has lived in England for many years, my apologies, but I have very little sympathy.

It's not like the Tories (not you) haven't been lecturing scots for years. William Hague for example......

Hague was Tory leader during the devolution referendum and in August 1997 he predicted: “Five years into a Scottish Parliament, Scots will be disappointed, disillusioned, depressed and living in a high-tax ghetto.”

Now clearly that was't scaremongering either, it was 'laying the ground for a truthful, honest referendum.'
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Midlander
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#6925
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#6925
(Original post by Boab)
As a Scot who has lived in England for many years, my apologies, but I have very little sympathy.

It's not like the Tories (not you) haven't been lecturing scots for years. William Hague for example......

Hague was Tory leader during the devolution referendum and in August 1997 he predicted: “Five years into a Scottish Parliament, Scots will be disappointed, disillusioned, depressed and living in a high-tax ghetto.”

Now clearly that was't scaremongering either, it was 'laying the ground for a truthful, honest referendum.'
Tories have been looking down on everybody for years, not just Scots. That would be why they weren't elected for 3 consecutive terms and why I never vote for them. It still doesn't stop Yes campaigners characterising everybody 'doon sooth' as a Tory voter, which is grossly insulting.
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MatureStudent36
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#6926
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#6926
(Original post by Midlander)
Tories have been looking down on everybody for years, not just Scots. That would be why they weren't elected for 3 consecutive terms and why I never vote for them. It still doesn't stop Yes campaigners characterising everybody 'doon sooth' as a Tory voter, which is grossly insulting.
It also ignores the fact that there's a sizeable number of Tory voters still in Scotland.
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Midlander
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#6927
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#6927
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
It also ignores the fact that there's a sizeable number of Tory voters still in Scotland.
Ruth Davidson is a Fifer whereas David Cameron is an Old Etonian. One target is much easier for Yes morons than the other.
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VladThe1mpaler
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#6928
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#6928
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
It also ignores the fact that there's a sizeable number of Tory voters still in Scotland.
Since when does 1 UK Conservative seat equate to " a sizeable number of tory voters"? Granted there are 15 Scottish Conservative seats but even then I wouldn't call that sizeable.
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Midlander
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#6929
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#6929
(Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
Since when does 1 UK Conservative seat equate to " a sizeable number of tory voters"? Granted there are 15 Scottish Conservative seats but even then I wouldn't call that sizeable.
More than double what the Greens and Lib Dems have combined. They also poll at a good 15-20% of the Westminster vote in Scotland but only get one seat. No Tories in Scotland my arse.


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Boab
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#6930
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#6930
(Original post by Midlander)
Tories have been looking down on everybody for years, not just Scots. That would be why they weren't elected for 3 consecutive terms and why I never vote for them. It still doesn't stop Yes campaigners characterising everybody 'doon sooth' as a Tory voter, which is grossly insulting.
Also a gross generalisation. Another one would be to say that No campaigners have labelled Alex Salmond as a dictator.

My view? Laugh it off!

Now, Ruth Davidson. The leader of the Conservative party in Scotland in her most recent election, finished 4th in Glasgow Kelvinside with a whopping 1,845 or 7.5% of the vote.

Excuse me if I'm not shaking in my boots about a the prospect of Tory revival in Scotland.
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MatureStudent36
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#6931
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#6931
(Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
Since when does 1 UK Conservative seat equate to " a sizeable number of tory voters"? Granted there are 15 Scottish Conservative seats but even then I wouldn't call that sizeable.
You've answered the question yourself.

Did you know more Scots voted for thatcher than Salmond?
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Midlander
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#6932
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#6932
(Original post by Boab)
Also a gross generalisation. Another one would be to say that No campaigners have labelled Alex Salmond as a dictator.

My view? Laugh it off!

Now, Ruth Davidson. The leader of the Conservative party in Scotland in her most recent election, finished 4th in Glasgow Kelvinside with a whopping 1,845 or 7.5% of the vote.

Excuse me if I'm not shaking in my boots about a the prospect of Tory revival in Scotland.
I didn't say expect Davidson to be the next FM, I was simply saying that the Tories poll a lot better than Yes campaigners claim. She is quite refreshing at least, for a Conservative-more palatable than Johann Lamont.


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MatureStudent36
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#6933
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#6933
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/...aign-1-3351628


I'm now being described as a second class Citiziens by the deputy first minister.
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Midlander
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#6934
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#6934
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/...aign-1-3351628


I'm now being described as a second class Citiziens by the deputy first minister.
So much divisive bull**** in one speech. I'm impressed she found Wales though.


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VladThe1mpaler
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#6935
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#6935
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/...aign-1-3351628


I'm now being described as a second class Citiziens by the deputy first minister.
That's not even what she said. She said people in scotland are treated like second class citizens by the Westminster government.
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Good bloke
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#6936
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#6936
(Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
That's not even what she said. She said people in scotland are treated like second class citizens by the Westminster government.
What she actually said was:

Westminster sees itself as the decision-maker with Scotland relegated to second-class status. Why would anyone want to stay in a Union where we are treated in such a way?
She referred to Scotland, not the people of Scotland, and her beef is that Holyrood is subservient to Westminster. Which is, of course, true, but a nonsensensical argument. Westminster is the UK's premier decision-maker, and Scots are lucky to be privileged to have a local parliament at all. The English aren't (not that we want one), yet we aren't bleating about being treated as second-class.

She also said:

But we have no right to a share of the assets that we have helped to construct, build and pay for.
Which is more nonsense as she is planning that Scotland takes, for instance, 32% of the UK's territory into any new independent state. But it all helps the emotion, if not the logic, of her argument.
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MatureStudent36
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#6937
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#6937
(Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
That's not even what she said. She said people in scotland are treated like second class citizens by the Westminster government.

So, let's see.

Being in the Union means using the same currency, receiving the same BBC, having the same BT telephone and internet backbone, the same taxation rates, etc, but includes more being spent per capita "on Scotland" than, say, England. Seems pretty equal to me, possibly slightly biased towards Scotland (I know, there are a hell of a lot of other factors to count in but I'm keeping it simple for the regular suspects).

Leave the Union and you shouldn't expect to still have the benefits of being in said Union, that stands to reason. After all, if you walk out on the missus you wouldn't expect her to treat you the same as if you were together, you wouldn't expect her to cook for you, do your laundry and give you a jump on a regular basis, so why should Sturgeon and the SNP think that leaving the Union means you get the same as you have when in the Union?
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Jordooooom
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#6938
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#6938
(Original post by Good bloke)
What she actually said was:



She referred to Scotland, not the people of Scotland, and her beef is that Holyrood is subservient to Westminster. Which is, of course, true, but a nonsensensical argument. Westminster is the UK's premier decision-maker, and Scots are lucky to be privileged to have a local parliament at all. The English aren't (not that we want one), yet we aren't bleating about being treated as second-class.
We're lucky? Hahah it's patronising comments like that that are turning more people to vote yes to keep it up.

And you really can't compare scotland to other parts of England. You know seeing as they're two seperate countries with two different histories/cultures...
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Good bloke
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#6939
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#6939
(Original post by Jordooooom)
We're lucky? Hahah it's patronising comments like that that are turning more people to vote yes to keep it up.

And you really can't compare scotland to other parts of England. You know seeing as they're two seperate countries with two different histories/cultures...
Use a little common sense. You are lucky as you (Scots) wanted a parliament and were given one - that didn't have to happen. How is it patronising to mention that?

England and Scotland are, under international law, both parts of a single country and aren't separate countries at all. We may have different legal systems and weather but that doesn't change the simple fact that there is only one country.
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Jordooooom
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#6940
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#6940
(Original post by Good bloke)
Use a little common sense. You are lucky as you (Scots) wanted a parliament and were given one - that didn't have to happen. How is it patronising to mention that?

England and Scotland are, under international law, both parts of a single country and aren't separate countries at all. We may have different legal systems and weather but that doesn't change the simple fact that there is only one country.
Still doesn't explain how we are 'lucky'. It really wouldn't have went well if the people of Scotland were denied one.

Scotland is a seperate country in a historical and political sense. If you believe that the only differences are the legal system and weather then you are an idiot.
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