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    Salaam,

    Reading the first post of this thread, I can understand that this page is open to anyone that wants to enquire about Islam and is welcoming people to post anything they wish related to Islam. So a Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Sikh, Atheist or any other non-muslim is entitled to post whatever they want in the I-SOC however, if a Shia individual posts something that they fully believe in, they will be targeted to not post anything similar in the future. So from what I understand is that the I-SOC is segregated with Sunni's who are very uninviting to anything beyond their belief specifically coming from a Shia as there are conflicts between the two. In my opinion this is quite similar to what is happening in the real world where Shia killing occurs clearly because of Sunni's disagreement. I mean we are all muslims in the end.

    Anyway, I hope that reading the above hasn't made anyone upset, it's just what I can see being a Muslim not thinking about the sectors in the matter.

    As a Shia I have a few questions I have been meaning to ask someone Sunni and thought it would be best to ask on a virtual platform:

    1) I understand that Muharram is seen differently by both. It is clear to me that Sunni people do not believe in Imam Hussain but do you believe that what Yazid did was correct and support him. If it wasn't for Imam Hussain (a.s) would we not be living Islam as we do today?

    2) Why is Imam Hussain (a.s) not given the respect he deserves when he sacrificed everything he had from his family to himself to save Islam?

    3) Abu Bakr and Umar have a great significance in the Sunni aspect. Would someone explain to me why they are both Significant for Sunni's and where exactly does it state that they were appointed as caliph rather than Imam Ali (a.s).

    4) It states in Sunni books (proof below) that Abu Bakr killed Bibi Fatima (as) so why is it that Abu Bakr is still given respect:

    Sunni historians reported that: When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)." Sunni Books References: - History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120 - History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325 - al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975 - Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20 - al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20 Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that: Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said: "O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from setting your house on fire." Ahl Sunnah references: - History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH - al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book, and pp 19-20 - Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362 - Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah Also it is reported that: Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you." Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140 Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a shelter." Sunni books references: - History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116 - Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

    5) Lastly, why do a minority of Sunni's also agree with the Shia's viewpoint when there is so much discrimination between both?

    Please can someone address these without terrorising me and discriminating me for my beliefs.

    As I always say, you cannot change me and I cannot change you. You will follow your faith and I will always follow mine.

    I don't expect someone to convert to Shia Islam by a post. I also don't expect anyone to tell me what I am doing is wrong. As being a 19 year old, I have done enough reading into my beliefs to believe it to be true.

    Thanks.
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    Salams everyone!
    Hope you all having a good day
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    (Original post by ak143244)
    Salams everyone!
    Hope you all having a good day
    W. Salaam

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    As-salamu alaykum

    Are you guys doing good?
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    (Original post by rainbowsarefab)
    Salaam,

    Reading the first post of this thread, I can understand that this page is open to anyone that wants to enquire about Islam and is welcoming people to post anything they wish related to Islam. So a Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Sikh, Atheist or any other non-muslim is entitled to post whatever they want in the I-SOC however, if a Shia individual posts something that they fully believe in, they will be targeted to not post anything similar in the future. So from what I understand is that the I-SOC is segregated with Sunni's who are very uninviting to anything beyond their belief specifically coming from a Shia as there are conflicts between the two. In my opinion this is quite similar to what is happening in the real world where Shia killing occurs clearly because of Sunni's disagreement. I mean we are all muslims in the end.

    Anyway, I hope that reading the above hasn't made anyone upset, it's just what I can see being a Muslim not thinking about the sectors in the matter.

    As a Shia I have a few questions I have been meaning to ask someone Sunni and thought it would be best to ask on a virtual platform:

    1) I understand that Muharram is seen differently by both. It is clear to me that Sunni people do not believe in Imam Hussain but do you believe that what Yazid did was correct and support him. If it wasn't for Imam Hussain (a.s) would we not be living Islam as we do today?

    2) Why is Imam Hussain (a.s) not given the respect he deserves when he sacrificed everything he had from his family to himself to save Islam?

    3) Abu Bakr and Umar have a great significance in the Sunni aspect. Would someone explain to me why they are both Significant for Sunni's and where exactly does it state that they were appointed as caliph rather than Imam Ali (a.s).

    4) It states in Sunni books (proof below) that Abu Bakr killed Bibi Fatima (as) so why is it that Abu Bakr is still given respect:

    Sunni historians reported that: When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)." Sunni Books References: - History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120 - History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325 - al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975 - Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20 - al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20 Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that: Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said: "O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from setting your house on fire." Ahl Sunnah references: - History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH - al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book, and pp 19-20 - Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362 - Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah Also it is reported that: Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you." Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140 Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a shelter." Sunni books references: - History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116 - Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

    5) Lastly, why do a minority of Sunni's also agree with the Shia's viewpoint when there is so much discrimination between both?

    Please can someone address these without terrorising me and discriminating me for my beliefs.

    As I always say, you cannot change me and I cannot change you. You will follow your faith and I will always follow mine.

    I don't expect someone to convert to Shia Islam by a post. I also don't expect anyone to tell me what I am doing is wrong. As being a 19 year old, I have done enough reading into my beliefs to believe it to be true.

    Thanks.
    Walaykum asalaam

    There are certain rules when it comes to individuals from different faiths (Muslims too) posting here. They can't post "whatever they want" if it doesn't comply with ISOC rules. This includes posts that are against Islam, trolls insulting and we do not tolerate people justifying their wrong beliefs here. It all comes under rule breaking. It's not segregated, there are hardly any Shias who are active in ISOC and we do have members who are Shia and post on ISOC, Tawheed mostly, other than that your point is invalid. Not good to make such comparisons either.

    InshaAllah someone else will answer your vague questions.

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    (Original post by ak143244)
    Salams everyone!
    Hope you all having a good day
    (Original post by TheProphetsPath)
    As-salamu alaykum

    Are you guys doing good?
    Walaykum asalaam

    Alhamdulillah.

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    (Original post by rainbowsarefab)
    Salaam,
    Wa alaikum al salaam

    Reading the first post of this thread, I can understand that this page is open to anyone that wants to enquire about Islam and is welcoming people to post anything they wish related to Islam. So a Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Sikh, Atheist or any other non-muslim is entitled to post whatever they want in the I-SOC however, if a Shia individual posts something that they fully believe in, they will be targeted to not post anything similar in the future. So from what I understand is that the I-SOC is segregated with Sunni's who are very uninviting to anything beyond their belief specifically coming from a Shia as there are conflicts between the two. In my opinion this is quite similar to what is happening in the real world where Shia killing occurs clearly because of Sunni's disagreement. I mean we are all muslims in the end.
    I think it is best that we all post common ground things, which there is plenty of rather than points of ikhtilaaf. Everybody here posts useful beneficial things that are common ground for everyone and we should continue with that. Rather than each hizb posting things that only agree with their line and an antithesis to others. Almost everything posted here follows the consensus of islam past and present and that is how it should be

    Anyway, I hope that reading the above hasn't made anyone upset, it's just what I can see being a Muslim not thinking about the sectors in the matter.
    if we start to post sect exclusive material then obviously people will think about sects

    As a Shia I have a few questions I have been meaning to ask someone Sunni and thought it would be best to ask on a virtual platform:

    1) I understand that Muharram is seen differently by both. It is clear to me that Sunni people do not believe in Imam Hussain but do you believe that what Yazid did was correct and support him. If it wasn't for Imam Hussain (a.s) would we not be living Islam as we do today?
    I don't know where you got the clear that sunnis don't believe in the respect, love and emulation of Hussain ra, his brother and their father. We all love them and personally I believe that we don't amount to a speck under their feet when it comes to their importance and elevation. But we do not believe in their imamah (in the sense of 12 imams..etc)
    2) Why is Imam Hussain (a.s) not given the respect he deserves when he sacrificed everything he had from his family to himself to save Islam?
    Who said that Husaain ra is not given the respect he deserves. What more respect is there or more elevation than being the grandson of the prophet pbuh, being the sayids of the youth of jannah, having the love of billions of sunni muslims throughout the ages. We love him, we emulate him in our lives, take lessons from his life and lament his loss. But we don't view that carrying out questionable activities (in the eyes of sunnis) respects Hussain, rather it offends him.

    3) Abu Bakr and Umar have a great significance in the Sunni aspect. Would someone explain to me why they are both Significant for Sunni's and where exactly does it state that they were appointed as caliph rather than Imam Ali (a.s).
    We as followers of the sunnah of the prophet pbuh and followers of the quran love and revere all the companions of the prophet pbuh. We do not appoint ourselves as judges or equals to judge them on their righteousness or sincerity (do we know of what was in their hearts). We do not have the mandate, authority or position to do so. How can a kindergarten kid see himself equal enough to debate or dismiss a university professor. How can a speck of dust try to throw dirt on the giant mountains they all were/are. Who are we and what are to say about them after Allah swt said
    Spoiler:
    Show







    لِلْفُقَرَاءِ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ الَّذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِن دِيَارِهِمْ وَأَمْوَالِهِمْ يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا وَيَنصُرُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الصَّادِقُونَ
    For the poor emigrants, those who were expelled from their homes and their properties, seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure and helping Allah and His Messenger. Those, they (are) the truthful.





    Spoiler:
    Show





    وَالَّذِينَ تَبَوَّءُوا الدَّارَ وَالْإِيمَانَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ يُحِبُّونَ مَنْ هَاجَرَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَا يَجِدُونَ فِي صُدُورِهِمْ حَاجَةً مِّمَّا أُوتُوا وَيُؤْثِرُونَ عَلَىٰ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَلَوْ كَانَ بِهِمْ خَصَاصَةٌ وَمَن يُوقَ شُحَّ نَفْسِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ
    Those who entered the city and the faith before them love those who flee unto them for refuge, and find in their breasts no need for that which hath been given them, but prefer (the fugitives) above themselves though poverty become their lot. And whoso is saved from his own avarice - such are they who are successful.






    All we can and should say about them all is what Allah swt ordained for us if we are believers:
    Spoiler:
    Show





    وَالَّذِينَ جَاءُوا مِن بَعْدِهِمْ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا اغْفِرْ لَنَا وَلِإِخْوَانِنَا الَّذِينَ سَبَقُونَا بِالْإِيمَانِ وَلَا تَجْعَلْ فِي قُلُوبِنَا غِلًّا لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا رَبَّنَا إِنَّكَ رَءُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ
    And so, they who come after them pray: “O our Sustainer! Forgive us our sins, as well as those of our brethren who preceded us in faith, and let not our hearts entertain any unworthy thoughts or feelings against [any of] those who have attained to faith. O our Sustainer! Verily, Thou art compassionate, a dispenser of grace!”






    4) It states in Sunni books (proof below) that Abu Bakr killed Bibi Fatima (as) so why is it that Abu Bakr is still given respect:

    Sunni historians reported that: When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)." Sunni Books References: - History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120 - History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325 - al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975 - Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20 - al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20 Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that: Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said: "O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from setting your house on fire." Ahl Sunnah references: - History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH - al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book, and pp 19-20 - Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362 - Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah Also it is reported that: Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you." Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140 Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a shelter." Sunni books references: - History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116 - Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586
    This is a discussion we can have in Tawheed's discussion thread.


    Please can someone address these without terrorising me and discriminating me for my beliefs.

    As I always say, you cannot change me and I cannot change you. You will follow your faith and I will always follow mine.

    I don't expect someone to convert to Shia Islam by a post. I also don't expect anyone to tell me what I am doing is wrong. As being a 19 year old, I have done enough reading into my beliefs to believe it to be true.

    Thanks.
    I believe we should not be blind followers but rather to be all educated in what we follow and learn and in the end be seekers of the truth wherever it lies.
    I'm currently looking into the shia theology with an open heart and seeking if truth lies in that path or in our path. I would advice the same to you.

    I hope I haven't ''terrorised'' you
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    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    Walaykum asalaam

    Alhamdulillah.

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    That's good
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Wa alaikum al salaam


    I think it is best that we all post common ground things, which there is plenty of rather than points of ikhtilaaf. Everybody here posts useful beneficial things that are common ground for everyone and we should continue with that. Rather than each hizb posting things that only agree with their line and an antithesis to others. Almost everything posted here follows the consensus of islam past and present and that is how it should be

    if we start to post sect exclusive material then obviously people will think about sects


    I don't know where you got the clear that sunnis don't believe in the respect, love and emulation of Hussain ra, his brother and their father. We all love them and personally I believe that we don't amount to a speck under their feet when it comes to their importance and elevation. But we do not believe in their imamah (in the sense of 12 imams..etc)

    Who said that Husaain ra is not given the respect he deserves. What more respect is there or more elevation than being the grandson of the prophet pbuh, being the sayids of the youth of jannah, having the love of billions of sunni muslims throughout the ages. We love him, we emulate him in our lives, take lessons from his life and lament his loss. But we don't view that carrying out questionable activities (in the eyes of sunnis) respects Hussain, rather it offends him.


    We as followers of the sunnah of the prophet pbuh and followers of the quran love and revere all the companions of the prophet pbuh. We do not appoint ourselves as judges or equals to judge them on their righteousness or sincerity (do we know of what was in their hearts). We do not have the mandate, authority or position to do so. How can a kindergarten kid see himself equal enough to debate or dismiss a university professor. How can a speck of dust try to throw dirt on the giant mountains they all were/are. Who are we and what are to say about them after Allah swt said
    Spoiler:
    Show









    لِلْفُقَرَاءِ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ الَّذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِن دِيَارِهِمْ وَأَمْوَالِهِمْ يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا وَيَنصُرُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الصَّادِقُونَ
    For the poor emigrants, those who were expelled from their homes and their properties, seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure and helping Allah and His Messenger. Those, they (are) the truthful.







    Spoiler:
    Show







    وَالَّذِينَ تَبَوَّءُوا الدَّارَ وَالْإِيمَانَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ يُحِبُّونَ مَنْ هَاجَرَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَا يَجِدُونَ فِي صُدُورِهِمْ حَاجَةً مِّمَّا أُوتُوا وَيُؤْثِرُونَ عَلَىٰ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَلَوْ كَانَ بِهِمْ خَصَاصَةٌ وَمَن يُوقَ شُحَّ نَفْسِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ
    Those who entered the city and the faith before them love those who flee unto them for refuge, and find in their breasts no need for that which hath been given them, but prefer (the fugitives) above themselves though poverty become their lot. And whoso is saved from his own avarice - such are they who are successful.








    All we can and should say about them all is what Allah swt ordained for us if we are believers:
    Spoiler:
    Show







    وَالَّذِينَ جَاءُوا مِن بَعْدِهِمْ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا اغْفِرْ لَنَا وَلِإِخْوَانِنَا الَّذِينَ سَبَقُونَا بِالْإِيمَانِ وَلَا تَجْعَلْ فِي قُلُوبِنَا غِلًّا لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا رَبَّنَا إِنَّكَ رَءُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ
    And so, they who come after them pray: “O our Sustainer! Forgive us our sins, as well as those of our brethren who preceded us in faith, and let not our hearts entertain any unworthy thoughts or feelings against [any of] those who have attained to faith. O our Sustainer! Verily, Thou art compassionate, a dispenser of grace!”









    This is a discussion we can have in Tawheed's discussion thread.




    I believe we should not be blind followers but rather to be all educated in what we follow and learn and in the end be seekers of the truth wherever it lies.
    I'm currently looking into the shia theology with an open heart and seeking if truth lies in that path or in our path. I would advice the same to you.

    I hope I haven't ''terrorised'' you

    Thanks for addressing my questions.

    Since you are looking into Shia theology; If you want you could listen to lectures by Sheikh Jehad Ismail who is a convert ( Sunni to Shia) and has found truth in the Ahlulbayt.

    I was really interested in the 4th question but will read more about it.
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    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    Has Charity Week started at your university? Make sure to help out inshaAllah and contribute. We all want to make a difference.

    ~

    “The likeness of those who spend their wealth in the way of Allaah, is as the likeness of a grain (of corn); it grows seven ears, and each ear has a hundred grains. Allaah gives manifold increase to whom He wills. And Allaah is All-Sufficient for His creatures’ needs, All-Knower.

    262. Those who spend their wealth in the Cause of Allaah, and do not follow up their gifts with reminders of their generosity or with injury, their reward is with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

    [al-Baqarah 2:261-262]

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    BarakAllahu feeki for this

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    (Original post by rainbowsarefab)
    Thanks for addressing my questions.

    Since you are looking into Shia theology; If you want you could listen to lectures by Sheikh Jehad Ismail who is a convert ( Sunni to Shia) and has found truth in the Ahlulbayt.

    I was really interested in the 4th question but will read more about it.
    Thanks for recommending a sheikh, will look him up and about question 4:
    I didn't want to start a debate on the isoc
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    https://youtu.be/kIvMyoOtGuM

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    https://youtu.be/Rn0hkJpNc-0

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    And People Today Defame Her?

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    (Original post by rainbowsarefab)
    Thanks for addressing my questions.

    Since you are looking into Shia theology; If you want you could listen to lectures by Sheikh Jehad Ismail who is a convert ( Sunni to Shia) and has found truth in the Ahlulbayt.

    I was really interested in the 4th question but will read more about it.
    Please join in on the following thread, it would be great to get a dialogue going: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...1#post68219194

    As for your fourth point on Abu Bakr and Umar killing Fatima, there is no evidence for this. By the admission of your own scholars (in particular Fadlullah), as popular as the story may be within Twelver thought, none of the reports which say that Umar hurt or caused Fatima to miscarry are actually reliable.
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    (Original post by Boondock Saint)
    Please join in on the following thread, it would be great to get a dialogue going: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...1#post68219194

    As for your fourth point on Abu Bakr and Umar killing Fatima, there is no evidence for this. By the admission of your own scholars (in particular Fadlullah), as popular as the story may be within Twelver thought, none of the reports which say that Umar hurt or caused Fatima to miscarry are actually reliable.
    Thanks for letting me know. I will do further reading into it.
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    h333
    How are you?
    Jazakullah for the rep
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    (Original post by ak143244)
    h333
    How are you?
    Jazakullah for the rep
    I am fine Alhamdulillah
    How are you and your family?
    BarakAllahu Feek.
 
 
 
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Updated: December 19, 2016
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