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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    What are your thoughts on the way RL Labour MPs voted today on the Investigatory Powers Bill (Snooper's Charter)? Only two Labour MPs voted against.


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    Shameful.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Shameful.
    Are you defecting?
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Are you defecting?
    Of course not, but it was still shameful, they finally have an opportunity to be sound in opposition and they go and show themselves as authoritarian as May.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Of course not, but it was still shameful, they finally have an opportunity to be sound in opposition and they go and show themselves as authoritarian as May.
    You surprise me more and more everyday JD


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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Of course not, but it was still shameful, they finally have an opportunity to be sound in opposition and they go and show themselves as authoritarian as May.
    Just checking But agreed. Labour seems to be missing a lot of opportunities to do some real, forceful opposing on issues people actually care about.
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    dw guys, I've sent Jezza a snapchat telling him how I disappointed I am with Labour
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    (Original post by St. Brynjar)
    Do you know where I can find a list?
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Look in Hansard, alternatively publicwhip.org.uk is quite good.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Common...tputType=Party

    162 Labour MPs (including mine who has just been sent an email :P ) voted for the Bill

    Only Dennis Skinner and David Winnick voted against
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Common...tputType=Party

    162 Labour MPs (including mine who has just been sent an email :P ) voted for the Bill

    Only Dennis Skinner and David Winnick voted against
    I quite like the snoopers charter. Go ahead, shoot me.

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I quite like the snoopers charter. Go ahead, shoot me.

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    It doesn't just invade our privacy and erode our civil liberties, it is fundamentally irrational and plain stupid.

    1) You're allowing Internet Providers to store every single citizens data for a year. The same Internet Providers that constantly get hacked and attacked by cyber criminals that will be able to steal our data
    2) You're overloading security services and the police with a bunch of useless data which is just adding to the already large haystack. Targeted data collection makes much more sense as it's a lot easier to find whatever you're looking for.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    It doesn't just invade our privacy and erode our civil liberties, it is fundamentally irrational and plain stupid.

    1) You're allowing Internet Providers to store every single citizens data for a year. The same Internet Providers that constantly get hacked and attacked by cyber criminals that will be able to steal our data
    2) You're overloading security services and the police with a bunch of useless data which is just adding to the already large haystack. Targeted data collection makes much more sense as it's a lot easier to find whatever you're looking for.
    Its easier to find what you're looking for if you have access to it.

    I highly doubt the home office is that interested in the nature of the porn you watch, i know that im certainly not (chicks with dicks?).

    Having a database of all the information we need to prevent something bad happening is definitely a good thing, if suspicions are raised then action can be taken, if it turns out that after an investigation the suspect is innocent then theres no harm done, and if not then theres a chance that lives would be saved.

    Not to mention how much easier itll be to crack down on peadophiles and child pornographers.

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Its easier to find what you're looking for if you have access to it.

    I highly doubt the home office is that interested in the nature of the porn you watch, i know that im certainly not (chicks with dicks?).

    Having a database of all the information we need to prevent something bad happening is definitely a good thing, if suspicions are raised then action can be taken, if it turns out that after an investigation the suspect is innocent then theres no harm done, and if not then theres a chance that lives would be saved.

    Not to mention how much easier itll be to crack down on peadophiles and child pornographers.

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    It probably is (child porn...)

    The issue is that this all works with a benevolent state. So this assumes that the state will always be benevolent which isn't the case.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Common...tputType=Party

    162 Labour MPs (including mine who has just been sent an email :P ) voted for the Bill

    Only Dennis Skinner and David Winnick voted against
    Ah you can always trust in Dennis to come through for us.
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    (Original post by cBay)
    Ah you can always trust in Dennis to come through for us.
    Aye. Much respect for him for this
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    (Original post by Aph)
    It probably is (child porn...)

    The issue is that this all works with a benevolent state. So this assumes that the state will always be benevolent which isn't the case.
    Rather than being an argument against the snoopers charter, thats an argument for a stateless society.



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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Rather than being an argument against the snoopers charter, thats an argument for a stateless society.



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    Society couldn't function without a state (until we all get computers implanted in our brain and make colective decisions based on all of our computers talking to eachother and with ourselves) that is so that we can trust eachother and work effectively together...
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Society couldn't function without a state (until we all get computers implanted in our brain and make colective decisions based on all of our computers talking to eachother and with ourselves) that is so that we can trust eachother and work effectively together...
    What if somebody tries to hack my brain?
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Society couldn't function without a state (until we all get computers implanted in our brain and make colective decisions based on all of our computers talking to eachother and with ourselves) that is so that we can trust eachother and work effectively together...
    Whilst you have a state you have to rely on it being benevolent though.

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    (Original post by cBay)
    What if somebody tries to hack my brain?
    It would rely on a system where everyone could hear the thoughts of everyone else all the time and children would get the implants at birth so it shouldn't be possible.
    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Whilst you have a state you have to rely on it being benevolent though.

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    Not at all, that's why we have the UN, EU, nation and devolved areas, that way the probability is that one of them will be benevolent to stop the rest.

    Also that's why I belive in a 5 house system to add so much burocracy that malevolence is easy to weed out.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    It would rely on a system where everyone could hear the thoughts of everyone else all the time and children would get the implants at birth so it shouldn't be possible.

    Not at all, that's why we have the UN, EU, nation and devolved areas, that way the probability is that one of them will be benevolent to stop the rest.

    Also that's why I belive in a 5 house system to add so much burocracy that malevolence is easy to weed out.
    Then whats the opposition to the snoopers charter?

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Then whats the opposition to the snoopers charter?

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    UN is powerless and we might leave the EU.
 
 
 
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