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    (Original post by Anonymous263)
    The point is that they are making claims backed up by social media which is not a credible source and doesn't prove anything.
    Do you see how silly that sounds? The United States Government, leaders of the free world, have evidence based off of a YouTube video.
    If they do have independent sound evidence ,which they claim that they do, then why not share it with the world, what have they got to hide?
    The USA has Satellites which they claim were orbiting around that area and they state that they have satellite imagery... why not share it? Russia has shared its satellite imagery with the world.
    Ok....but the YouTube video was an intercept released by the Ukrainian Government not a random person on Social Media.

    I don't know why they don't want to release it. Maybe they don't have it. Maybe they don't think it is important. Maybe they are waiting to gather all of their evidence to release to the investigation. As I said before, even the Russians are not saying that the Rebels did not fire the weapon, so I am not sure what the point of releasing Satellite images would be.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Ok....but the YouTube video was an intercept released by the Ukrainian Government not a random person on Social Media.

    I don't know why they don't want to release it. Maybe they don't have it. Maybe they don't think it is important. Maybe they are waiting to gather all of their evidence to release to the investigation. As I said before, even the Russians are not saying that the Rebels did not fire the weapon, so I am not sure what the point of releasing Satellite images would be.
    True, but the Ukrainian government isn't exactly a reliable source of information, having so much at stake in this crisis.
    Well, Satellite images showing that it was in fact a SAM which shot down the plane and that it came from rebel territory would at least show us that they do have evidence and aren't just talking out of their a** and relying on social media, the flip side is, even if the satellites show that it did come from rebel territory, it would not prove who fired it as they themselves have said today.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5611113.html
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    (Original post by Anonymous263)
    dude the BBC... seriously?
    The "Whitehall sources" stated in this article is actually the Kiev government which is not impartial in this conflict.
    We honestly don't know anything yet and you are jumping to conclusions and calling people stupid. So far its ONLY speculation.
    Forgive me for not being impartial enough. Dare I ask who you think caused this mess?
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    (Original post by Anonymous263)
    dude the BBC... seriously?
    The "Whitehall sources" stated in this article is actually the Kiev government which is not impartial in this conflict.
    We honestly don't know anything yet and you are jumping to conclusions and calling people stupid. So far its ONLY speculation.
    Could you please divulge how you know the 'Whitehall source' is the Kiev government? Genuine question
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    (Original post by Anonymous263)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5611113.html
    Even the US government says that there is no evidence.
    When I said, 'You have to be either stupid or Russian', I was not saying Russia had a direct hand in the crash. I was merely commenting on how the Russian populace and media are blaming the Ukrainian government for downing the plane opposed to looking at the evidence pointing towards the separatists.
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    (Original post by Petrue)
    When I said, 'You have to be either stupid or Russian', I was not saying Russia had a direct hand in the crash. I was merely commenting on how the Russian populace and media are blaming the Ukrainian government for downing the plane opposed to looking at the evidence pointing towards the separatists.
    Russian government is blaming Ukrainian one not for downing the plane but for creating a situation when it's possible for a plane to be shot down. Rebels are citizens of Ukraine, not Russia.
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    (Original post by Lumens)
    Russian government is blaming Ukrainian one not for downing the plane but for creating a situation when it's possible for a plane to be shot down. Rebels are citizens of Ukraine, not Russia.
    Yeah of course.

    Russia has nothing to do with this. I mean it isn't as if they are involved in the destabalisation of the region. And they certainly have not been arming and supporting the rebels.

    Naughty Ukraine.
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    (Original post by Anonymous263)
    True, but the Ukrainian government isn't exactly a reliable source of information, having so much at stake in this crisis.
    Well, Satellite images showing that it was in fact a SAM which shot down the plane and that it came from rebel territory would at least show us that they do have evidence and aren't just talking out of their a** and relying on social media, the flip side is, even if the satellites show that it did come from rebel territory, it would not prove who fired it as they themselves have said today.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5611113.html
    Well, not even the Russians are contradicting US assertions. The only issue is the portion of blame.

    So, where they base their assertions from at this juncture, is largely irrelevant.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I mean it isn't as if they are involved in the destabalisation of the region.
    Can you prove it?
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    So far even to the US's admission there has been no proof that suggest Russia had involvement in the incident.



    #TeamPutin

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    (Original post by Lumens)
    Can you prove it?
    Well, there was that time when they annexed Crimea and held a sham referendum.

    It has been well reported that Russia has been supplying weapons and manpower to the rebels.

    Russia started this and continues to add fuel to the fire.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Well, there was that time when they annexed Crimea and held a sham referendum.
    You mean right after the other side had staged a coup and put an unelected man into power?


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    Nathanael Kapner who was born an American Jew but converted to Orthodox Christianity (see his video why he left Judaism) has produced some very informative videos about what's going on in Ukraine. An older video about the Zionist hijacking of Ukraine.
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    (Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
    You mean right after the other side had staged a coup and put an unelected man into power?


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    The current guy was elected on 25 May 2014.

    The guy before him was an interim leader - there to keep things running until elections could be held.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    It has been well reported that Russia has been supplying weapons and manpower to the rebels.
    It has been well reported by western media. Russian media reported different things. So why you automatically trust one of them without any proof provided by any? Till you got evidence, you can't say such things.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    The current guy was elected on 25 May 2014.

    The guy before him was an interim leader - there to keep things running until elections could be held.
    He was only elected because the eastern Ukraine quite rightly did not view the election as being legitimate and for the most part did not vote.


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    (Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
    He was only elected because the eastern Ukraine quite rightly did not view the election as being legitimate and for the most part did not vote.
    Actually I can believe that Poroshenko is legitimate president. I've written about it few pages back. But some guys here see the world in black and white colours. Some of people are angels fighting for the truth and some of them are terrorists ruining all the fun. The problem with Ukraine is that both sides are absolutely the same. Both sides don't want to be ruled by the other side and both sides are using weapon to defend its own interests eliminating the other side. But it happened that pro-government (or pro-western) side has more supporters overall, so the other side happened to be named as terrorists. It's so easy to call people which don't agree with you as terrorists so you got the right to kill them.
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    (Original post by Lumens)
    It has been well reported by western media. Russian media reported different things. So why you automatically trust one of them without any proof provided by any? Till you got evidence, you can't say such things.
    Yes I can say such things. And I'll keep on doing so .

    Russia is arming the rebels. I trust the NATO reports. I don't trust Putin's claim that the weapons (tanks, missiles, artillery etc) came from "shops".

    You missed out where I mentioned the annexation of Crimea... something the Russians denied being part of, which turned out to be lies. That goes some way to explaining why many don't trust the Russian press.



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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Russia is arming the rebels. I trust the NATO reports. I don't trust Putin's claim that the weapons (tanks, missiles, artillery etc) came from "shops".
    Okay, keep saying it. But why do you trust NATO reports? No kidding. Really, why? I guess, that's because it's your side, hence it's profitable for you in some way. Am I right?

    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    You missed out where I mentioned the annexation of Crimea...
    I was really against the annexation, but I got many friends all over Ukraine, so I know how happy people in Crimea are now. Don't you wonder why there are no rebels in Crimea now? Why is no one protesting? They really like to be part of Russia. So overall it is a good thing for the people that live there and I can't blame them for supporting the annexation, though personally I don't like it.
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    And if you want to see what kind of people is in charge of Ukrainian government now, I have a demonstration for you.

    Here on the video right after a member of Ukrainian parliament Levchenko told that Ukrainian government do nothing to stop the civil war and that the army is continuing to kill their own people, Turchynov (chairman of parliament) immediately asked to turn off Levchenkov's mic and told that they're going to kick out of the parliament people who say such things. Afterwards a bunch of pro-government party guys started to beat Levchenko.

    That's a real democracy.

 
 
 
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