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"Shootings" reported in central Paris. watch

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    (Original post by Kaedra)
    This is a nice idea, but I wonder if it could be put into practice. I have a feeling that the "corruption" of their "values" might cause some extremist Muslims to retaliate(The formation of ISIS is a prime example). Many religions also prefer to cling to tradition, as in the case of Catholics vs Protestants (although I am not trying to judge either religion, I know there are reasons for this). That said, challenging the philosophy rather than outright attacking Islam or ISIS would be much better if we could get it to work. Sadly I'm not sure if it would happen. (Not necessarily disagreeing btw, just examining the idea)
    ISIS is the death of militant Islam, its a desperate attempt to reform a Caliphate once they realised the rest of the world has overtaken the Muslim world. Even Saudi Arabia is becoming westernised
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    The truth.
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Given a terrorist, it is much more likely that they follow Islam than any other religion (ever heard of a Buddhist Terrorist lol?)

    Preaching tolerance is fine, but don't ignore the facts, and don't reflexively call people racists, or stupid, just because they disagree with you.
    Myanmar?
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    (Original post by Danz123)
    So about half of all Muslims then or 40% living in Europe? You wanna kill almost half of ALL the Muslims in Europe? You're insane.
    Mate don't waste your time with i<3milkshake, he also said in another post that women who vote in 'lefty' governments should be raped
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    (Original post by Simes)
    Oh, FFS.
    It could have been a facetious attempt to poke fun at Western superstition. Or it could just be a coincidence. But I don't think the former should be completely ruled out, as ridiculous as it may seem.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    ISIS is the death of militant Islam, its a desperate attempt to reform a Caliphate once they realised the rest of the world has overtaken the Muslim world. Even Saudi Arabia is becoming westernised
    Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. Hoping once ISIS is dealt with opportunities for friendlier relationships will arise. Until then, justified or not, a large proportion of the population will just blame Islam as a whole. When something as tragic as this happens, people need something to rage against. Not agreeing with it btw, although I see where they're coming from.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    The root cause of these atrocities is the Left and the damage they do their own civilisation and birth rate, which necessitates immigration.

    Muslims or any other ethnic group are just a symptom.
    Didn't you say it's 100% on the left? Are you now correcting yourself or are you blaming the left on the birth rate?

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    (Original post by Killuminati1989)
    Mate don't waste your time with i<3milkshake, he also said in another post that women who vote in 'lefty' governments should be raped
    Oh wow, well he's either a troll or in serious need of psychiatric help.
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    There will be regional elections in two weeks, Marine Le Pen should win them hands down.
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    (Original post by ESPORTIVA LUTA)
    France needs to step it up!

    Stop sending over like the liberal cowards wish you do!

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Liberal coward = Merkel, leader of the right wing alliance?
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    (Original post by Kaedra)
    This is a nice idea, but I wonder if it could be put into practice. I have a feeling that the "corruption" of their "values" might cause some extremist Muslims to retaliate(The formation of ISIS is a prime example). Many religions also prefer to cling to tradition, as in the case of Catholics vs Protestants (although I am not trying to judge either religion, I know there are reasons for this). That said, challenging the philosophy rather than outright attacking Islam or ISIS would be much better if we could get it to work. Sadly I'm not sure if it would happen. (Not necessarily disagreeing btw, just examining the idea)
    Islamists will react, there is no doubt and such ideas will not go down well among many Muslims. However, the very same literature which Islamists use to justify their beliefs and intolerances can also be used to defend the legitimacy of progressive Islam. For example this Sahih Hadith from Al-Bukhari:

    Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."

    One can be a progressive Muslim and do all of the above. Whilst progressive Muslims are small in numbers, they do exist and they are a present and growing demographic around the world. I think it is a matter of challenging the current majority held views and trying to show that there are other alternative interpretations which do propose some interesting answers to the current problems facing Islam. Such figures as Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, Mahmoud Mohammed Taha, Siti Musdah Mulia, Scott Siraj al-Haqq Kugle and many others also have been at the forefront in different countries around the world presenting unique and progressive interpretations of Islam. I think it is just a matter of trying to disseminate these ideas.
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    Cue strawman
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)

    An extremist Muslim wants to kill you. A moderate Muslim wants an extremist to kill you.
    An extremist Muslim assumes all westerners are evil and must die. You assume all muslims are evil and want to kill you, you don't sound too different to these terrorists tbh by painting a whole group of different types of people as an enemy, this sort of mindset is what's ruining the world.
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    (Original post by Fidus Achates)
    The problem is you don't seem to understand that:

    a) not every Muslim nation will become stable because due to its faction like nature there will always be a power struggle of political/militant Islam
    b) those who are living in stabler Muslim nations are more likely to stay there, as opposed to those living in dire conditions who move abroad in an attempt to spread their hatred - i.e. the minority speaking the loudest and ruining it for everyone
    c) even by fair standards, the most stable Muslim nations are still a far cry from acceptable on many issues by standards set elsewhere
    There will always be a power struggle until violent islam is so unpopular that it can't form cohesive terror groups. The opinions will remain, but the proportions will change.

    In response to points B and C: I would put iran in your final category. I don't agree with iranian domestic policies at all - however, the country is growing steadily more liberal in its ideas as the seminary in Qom dedicated to removing sunni influences (read: historical fabrications) from the shia understanding of Muhammad, and therefore the Quran and Islam itself, progresses. Iran is moving further and further from the violent, ISIS like safavid interpretation of shia islam and closer towards a liberal, progressive form. Evidence of this is in Iran's legal acceptance of transsexuals and of their depiction of islamic figures in film (which recently resulted in uneducated rural people demonstrating by cutting themselves to get an awesome film called 'Hussein: The One Who Said No' banned.)

    Obviously, there's a hell of a lot progress to be made, especially towards homosexuality and tolerance of people leaving Islam - though at least the punishment isn't execution. The country even employs a democratic system, and a head of state appointed via a technocratic method by a 'shura' of islamic legal experts. Keep in mind here that as khomeini once said, the sharia, for the shia muslims, is open to change so long as its principles are not altered, so that those principles can be applied to the modern era.

    Again with Iran - Iran is a relatively independent state, not being involved with the petrodollar bloc allied to the west. While Saudi Arabia's scramble for regional power is related to the fealty it pays to America and Israel, Iran's is in order to remove oppressive dictatorships from within countries and inspire the less oppressive ones to change of their own accord, as Iran would have done with the election of Mossadegh with approval of the Shah had that not been ruined by the US-supported coup in favour of the Shah's son.

    If you look at Iran's key ally, Hezbollah - the could have easily been used to take over Lebanon and act like an ISIS-type organisation would. Instead, they politicised themselves and have grown to such affection in the hearts of Lebanese christians that the latter have actually joined the fight against ISIS as part of Hezbollah christian regiments.

    Supporting Iran's foreign policy and promoting progressivism in Iran is the path to a more secure, democratic middle east, and a muslim world community with representative changes in attitude.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Islamists will react, there is no doubt and such ideas will not go down well among many Muslims. However, the very same literature which Islamists use to justify their beliefs and intolerances can also be used to defend the legitimacy of progressive Islam. For example this Sahih Hadith from Al-Bukhari:

    Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."

    One can be a progressive Muslim and do all of the above. Whilst progressive Muslims are small in numbers, they do exist and they are a present and growing demographic around the world. I think it is a matter of challenging the current majority held views and trying to show that there are other alternative interpretations which do propose some interesting answers to the current problems facing Islam. Such figures as Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, Mahmoud Mohammed Taha, Siti Musdah Mulia, Scott Siraj al-Haqq Kugle and many others also have been at the forefront in different countries around the world presenting unique and progressive interpretations of Islam. I think it is just a matter of trying to disseminate these ideas.
    That's pretty smart actually, though of course that goal would be a very long term one. Right now people are scared and want to do something, probably something very violent back to get revenge. These guys need to be caught, though going forward engaging in something like this would be a good thing, even if it got some push back.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    There will be regional elections in two weeks, Marine Le Pen should win them hands down.
    I can definitely see her and the FN gaining even more support in the wake of this.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    1. When most refugees are sent home.
    2. This will happen if there is no longer a need for foreign workers, and leftists are driven out of power.
    3. This will happen when the local birth rate goes up, and there is a rightist take-over of educational institutions and media.
    4. Feminism will have to end. Liberalism will have to end.

    I think much more likely is that these societies will be fractured, institutionally and legally, like Malaysia, across religious lines. That is the only reasonably peaceful solution to this recurring problem.
    OK so basically the easiest way to doing it is to make Britain a muslim country?

    - no more leftists
    - no more feminism
    - no more liberalism
    - high birth rate
    - right wing takeover of educational institutions and media
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Islamists will react, there is no doubt and such ideas will not go down well among many Muslims. However, the very same literature which Islamists use to justify their beliefs and intolerances can also be used to defend the legitimacy of progressive Islam. For example this Sahih Hadith from Al-Bukhari:

    Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."

    One can be a progressive Muslim and do all of the above. Whilst progressive Muslims are small in numbers, they do exist and they are a present and growing demographic around the world. I think it is a matter of challenging the current majority held views and trying to show that there are other alternative interpretations which do propose some interesting answers to the current problems facing Islam. Such figures as Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, Mahmoud Mohammed Taha, Siti Musdah Mulia, Scott Siraj al-Haqq Kugle and many others also have been at the forefront in different countries around the world presenting unique and progressive interpretations of Islam. I think it is just a matter of trying to disseminate these ideas.
    These ideas would probably have to be pushed through by Muslims though to be respected, in the same way that many Christians probably wouldn't appreciate religious advice from Muslims. I think it's an internal problem which they will probably have to fix for themselves.
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    (Original post by holmes221)
    I'm wondering why they targeted them. They're actually very mild.
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    No one hates radical Muslims more than Muslims.
 
 
 
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