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    (Original post by QueenSI)
    Sadly not. Not until they get their rights and their land back. When the apartheid has ended then there will be peace. But there cannot be peace if Israel continues taking land illegally and forcing the Palestinians to live in poor conditions with no freedom and no where to go. These people cannot even flee to another country for refuge. Israel is holding them captive in the world's largest open air prison.
    Actually it was the Palestinian leadership that always rejected a state for the Palestinians, not Israel. When the Palestinians finally gained control of Gaza, they let Hamas turn it into a theocratic hell hole, so one can hardly blame Israel now for not wanting to do the same with the West Bank.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Actually it was the Palestinian leadership that always rejected a state for the Palestinians, not Israel. When the Palestinians finally gained control of Gaza, they let Hamas turn it into a theocratic hell hole, so one can hardly blame Israel now for not wanting to do the same with the West Bank.
    And why should the Palestinians agree to a state of Palestine when Israel is the one that came and took their home. They want their whole country back not bits and for Israel to stop settling illegally. Basically the Zionists of Israel should leave and go back to Europe where they originally immigrated from. Judaism Isn't the issue, white supremacist Zionists are.
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    (Original post by QueenSI)
    And why should the Palestinians agree to a state of Palestine when Israel is the one that came and took their home. They want their whole country back not bits and for Israel to stop settling illegally. Basically the Zionists of Israel should leave and go back to Europe where they originally immigrated from. Judaism Isn't the issue, white supremacist Zionists are.
    What about American, Asian and African Zionists? Are you anti-European? You seem to only have a problem with European Zionists, who number less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.

    Not to mention that much of the Jewish population in Israel was born there and nowhere else.

    Anyway what you are advocating is an ethnic cleansing of millions of people, so you are in effect, a hypocrite, and a driver of hate.
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    (Original post by QueenSI)
    apartheid
    It's an odd sort of apartheid where all 1.1 million Arab Israelis have the vote, and where in surveys the majority of them prefer to remain living under an Israeli government than the Palestinian Authority.

    And it's an odd sort of apartheid where Nelson Mandela would have said, "I feel at home here". I think Nelson would have known apartheid when he sees it.

    Repeating the word apartheid over and over again is simply an attempt by Islamist extremists, the kind of people who throw gay people off buildings, to smear a state which has no logical parrallel with apartheid
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Actually it was the Palestinian leadership that always rejected a state for the Palestinians, not Israel. When the Palestinians finally gained control of Gaza, they let Hamas turn it into a theocratic hell hole, so one can hardly blame Israel now for not wanting to do the same with the West Bank.
    Indeed, and it's funny that the Palestinians are constantly talking about Israel within the 1967 borders; in 1968, Israel offered a grand bargain, peace for land, and to withdraw within the 1967 borders. I can't think of another instance where the militarily victorious power is immediately offering to make concessions, and the people who lost are refusing to accept concessions from the victor power

    The PLO refused because they said they would not do any deal that accepted Israel had a right to exist at all. Reminds me of 1948
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    (Original post by ExcitedPup)
    Indeed, and it's funny that the Palestinians are constantly talking about Israel within the 1967 borders; in 1968, Israel offered a grand bargain, peace for land, and to withdraw within the 1967 borders. I can't think of another instance where the militarily victorious power is immediately offering to make concessions, and the people who lost are refusing to accept concessions from the victor power

    The PLO refused because they said they would not do any deal that accepted Israel had a right to exist at all. Reminds me of 1948
    Yes and where was Yasser Arafat during Jordan's occupation of the West Bank and Egypt's occupation of Gaza?
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Yes and where was Yasser Arafat during Jordan's occupation of the West Bank and Egypt's occupation of Gaza?
    Indeed. And where is the PLO and Hamas viz. Jordan? Jordan is the other half of the Mandate of Palestine, and yet the Palestinians do nothing to bring down the Hashemite dynasty.

    That's because this is about Arab chauvinism, and an overdeveloped sense of group loyalty and victimhood.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    What about American, Asian and African Zionists? Are you anti-European? You seem to only have a problem with European Zionists, who number less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.

    Not to mention that much of the Jewish population in Israel was born there and nowhere else.

    Anyway what you are advocating is an ethnic cleansing of millions of people, so you are in effect, a hypocrite, and a driver of hate.
    I'm talking about Zionists in general. Nothing against Europeans,.I'm the one hat is advocating for the ethnic cleansing of millions? Really? I didn't say I'm against Judaism. I have an issue with anyone who comes onto someone else's land claims it for their own and keep taking illegally. Tthe killing of thousands of Palestinians is not considered to be ethnic cleansing? no? and you said I advocate for the ethnic cleansing of millions. You're ignoring the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians which makes you the ignorant hypocrite who advocates the death of thousands.
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    (Original post by QueenSI)
    I'm talking about Zionists in general. Nothing against Europeans,.I'm the one hat is advocating for the ethnic cleansing of millions? Really? I didn't say I'm against Judaism. I have an issue with anyone who comes onto someone else's land claims it for their own and keep taking illegally. Tthe killing of thousands of Palestinians is not considered to be ethnic cleansing? no? and you said I advocate for the ethnic cleansing of millions. You're ignoring the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians which makes you the ignorant hypocrite who advocates the death of thousands.
    You're talking about something which happened decades ago, primarily as a result of the 1948 war. Yes, the Palestinians faced injustice. But what you are advocating is for millions of Jewish descendants to go "back", as you put it, to where their ancestors came from - that would be an ethnic cleansing, yes. So you are advocating an ethnic cleansing now in response to a (far smaller) ethnic cleansing decades ago.

    You have not convinced me that you are not anti-European. Why highlight European zionists and not African, Asian and American ones?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Don't get me wrong. Given a choice of a westernise Israel or animal interfering Palestinian way of life, I'd promote Israel. Israel hasn't promoted suicide bombings or hijackings in the last forty years....they've also won fair fights .
    Invading a defenseless country and slaughtering thousands of civilians can hardly be described as a 'fair fight'.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    You're talking about something which happened decades ago, primarily as a result of the 1948 war. Yes, the Palestinians faced injustice. But what you are advocating is for millions of Jewish descendants to go "back", as you put it, to where their ancestors came from - that would be an ethnic cleansing, yes. So you are advocating an ethnic cleansing now in response to a (far smaller) ethnic cleansing decades ago.

    You have not convinced me that you are not anti-European. Why highlight European zionists and not African, Asian and American ones?
    Just because it happened decades ago it does not change the fact it is wrong. Innocent jews have lived in Palestine, but they aren't zionists am talking about the people who are for taking more land and settling on their land illegally. I'm talking about those who support the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and support the atrocities committed by the Israeli government including the atrocities committed against JEWS!. Go search up what the Isreali government do to Black Jews in Israel proving that the government are white supremacists. I'm not Anti-European am European, but am talking about the jews that predominantly immigrated from Europe
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    (Original post by QueenSI)
    Just because it happened decades ago it does not change the fact it is wrong. Innocent jews have lived in Palestine, but they aren't zionists am talking about the people who are for taking more land and settling on their land illegally. I'm talking about those who support the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and support the atrocities committed by the Israeli government including the atrocities committed against JEWS!. Go search up what the Isreali government do to Black Jews in Israel proving that the government are white supremacists. I'm not Anti-European am European, but am talking about the jews that predominantly immigrated from Europe
    But they didn't predominantly immigrate from Europe. Less than half came from Europe. Many came from America and huge numbers came from North Africa and the Middle East (in fact, many were forced to by oppression, as in the case of Libya with its pogroms). Why are you highlighting the European ones as if they are somehow worse?

    Anyway you said that the "Zionists of Israel should leave and go back to Europe...", ergo you support an ethnic cleansing since that would entail millions of Jews, who are mostly Zionists, to leave their home country.

    More, and worse, injustice does not cure past injustice.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Invading a defenseless country and slaughtering thousands of civilians can hardly be described as a 'fair fight'.
    It's not really slaughtering thousands though is it. Israel tends to respond to Palestinian attacks. The pattern is, Palestinians attack, Israelis respond.

    The Israelis are better at protecting its people. The Palestinians are happy to create civilian casualties for propoganda purposes.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    But they didn't predominantly immigrate from Europe. Less than half came from Europe. Many came from America and huge numbers came from North Africa and the Middle East (in fact, many were forced to by oppression, as in the case of Libya with its pogroms). Why are you highlighting the European ones as if they are somehow worse?

    Anyway you said that the "Zionists of Israel should leave and go back to Europe...", ergo you support an ethnic cleansing since that would entail millions of Jews, who are mostly Zionists, to leave their home country.

    More, and worse, injustice does not cure past injustice.
    I'm not support ethnic cleansing of all jews, I didn't say kill them off which is what Israel is trying to do with the Palestinians. My argument is many suffer at the hand of Israel not just Palestinians. Immigrant Jews from Africa also suffer at the hands of the Israeli government. Surely with you defending Israel you're also supporting the ethnic cleansing of millions of Palestinians.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Actaully that's not the pattern. The Pro Israel lobby always paints the picture of Israel 'responding'.

    How about Israel blockading the citizens of Gaza and stopping basic supplies getting in?

    Israel is as much the aggressor as anyone.
    Israel slaughtering thousands of innocent civilians is not protecting its people.
    I'd stick a blockade around Palestine if I was in charge of Israel to try and stop the rockets coming in that are targeting Israeli civilians.

    Israel's main priority is to defend it's population. Not Palestinian civilians who the Palestinian authorities are more than happy to knowingly out into the firing line to cause casualties.

    http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/0...-areas/380149/

    http://m.ndtv.com/world-news/ndtv-ex...rockets-641680
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    (Original post by QueenSI)
    I'm not support ethnic cleansing of all jews, I didn't say kill them off which is what Israel is trying to do with the Palestinians. My argument is many suffer at the hand of Israel not just Palestinians. Immigrant Jews from Africa also suffer at the hands of the Israeli government. Surely with you defending Israel you're also supporting the ethnic cleansing of millions of Palestinians.
    If Israel is trying to "kill off" the Palestinians, why has the Palestinian population grown enormously over the last few decades? E.g. in Gaza there are now 1.8 million people.

    Ethnic cleansing is not the same as killing off. It is the forced removal of a population by any means. You advocate an ethnic cleansing of the Jewish population of Israel.

    If African immigrant Jews suffer so much in Israel, why do they constantly risk their lives trying to get there? They aren't stupid.
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    Oy vey! We can't let the Palestinian supporters have a place on campus, can we goyim?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I'd stick a blockade around Palestine if I was in charge of Israel to try and stop the rockets coming in that are targeting Israeli civilians.

    Israel's main priority is to defend it's population. Not Palestinian civilians who the Palestinian authorities are more than happy to knowingly out into the firing line to cause casualties.

    http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/0...-areas/380149/

    http://m.ndtv.com/world-news/ndtv-ex...rockets-641680
    Sending links is not a substitute for an actual argument.
    I have Israeli citizenship, I've lived in Israel, I don't need you to send me any crap biased links about the conflict thankyou very much.
    The average age of Gaza is 17. Israel recklessly bombed schools and hospitals which they knew civilians were hiding in. Israel can defend itself against rocket attacks thanks to American money, it didn't need to go in.

    It went into Gaza, it slaughtered thousands of civilians.
    Hamas are awful, but that doesn't excuse Israel.
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    (Original post by SotonianOne)
    Israel.

    Because Palestinians are Jordanians. I do not condone all of Israel's actions though, I think their economic sanctions are taking it too far. Palestine is far too radicalized to just "let it go", but I think an immediate two-state solution and a gradual release of sanctions should be in place, along with some constitutional guarantees, such as a ban on a Palestinian military and a mandatory check by Israel on all goods coming into Palestine.
    And around 70% of modern Israeli's are Europeans. Does that give them the right to displace people?
    Why should Israel check all the imported goods, it's not like it doesn't do that anyway. Palestine doesn't have a military. Whilst Israel's "defence" force is one of the best equipped and funded in the world.
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    I reckon both Israel and Palestine, share a heavy burden of guilty for shelling one another's civilian populations for mere political gain.

    Neither side can be considered 'heroic' due to the staggering loss of human life that has been created from this lengthy stand off.
 
 
 
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