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    (Original post by Aph)
    Patriotism is either elitist indoctrination or pure selfishness wanting to feel good about a worthless life.
    To be honest, I think if you're not doing something for yourself, and you're doing it for someone else, then you're doing it for someone else to make yourself happy. So basically, everything you do, is for yourself, which ever way you look at it.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    What does that even mean?
    Reading between the lines I imagine the "decisive action" in Rhun ap Iorwerth's mind is a 12-letter word beginning with "i".

    (If you mean the Welsh, then it's essentially a stronger version of the English.)

    (Original post by Rakas21)
    He's annoyed that Wales voted England?

    How'd you feel about that, i imagine very mixed.
    With an eye on what I can and can't say here, it will change Welsh politics far more than UK politics as a whole.

    It should hit home initially that Wales is politically far more like England than Scotland, but if there are referenda in Scotland and NI then Wales will feel left out regardless and I expect nationalistic tendencies to rise. Of course if the referenda fail then nationalism is probably dead for at least a generation in Wales.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I really don't get how anyone could think the way you do I also don't understand how anyone could think so little of themselves that they need to be patriotic...
    Wanting to remain part of the EU is thinking little of yourself, wanting to remain part of the EU is a vote of no confidence in your ability as a country to prosper on the global stage. I do not want collectivism, I do not want togetherness, I do not want to be an EU citizen, I do not want free movement of people, nor do I want to help poor countries develop. I want to see a Britain making decision that are in Britain's best interests, I do not want to see Britain sacrificing some of its welfare to boost the welfare of another country.

    You dislike patriotism, but disliking patriotism is something done by idealouges who have no conception of the real world, no drive to be successful in life, no ambition, and nothing to offer to the world. We have been lucky enough to be born in Britain, it is time we exploited our luck to give us the best lives possible.

    I thought this might interest you mobbsy91 Jammy Duel Rakas21, I am hearing from a friend in the Tory circle that backbench MPs are agreeing to support a bid to make Andrea Leadsom party leader.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Reading between the lines I imagine the "decisive action" in Rhun ap Iorwerth's mind is a 12-letter word beginning with "i".

    (If you mean the Welsh, then it's essentially a stronger version of the English.)



    With an eye on what I can and can't say here, it will change Welsh politics far more than UK politics as a whole.

    It should hit home initially that Wales is politically far more like England than Scotland, but if there are referenda in Scotland and NI then Wales will feel left out regardless and I expect nationalistic tendencies to rise. Of course if the referenda fail then nationalism is probably dead for at least a generation in Wales.
    There is no real prospect of independence for Wales though is there? Far too interwoven with England and, at the risk of sounding patronising, not really equipped to thrive as an independent nation.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Wanting to remain part of the EU is thinking little of yourself, wanting to remain part of the EU is a vote of no confidence in your ability as a country to prosper on the global stage. I do not want collectivism, I do not want togetherness, I do not want to be an EU citizen, I do not want free movement of people, nor do I want to help poor countries develop. I want to see a Britain making decision that are in Britain's best interests, I do not want to see Britain sacrificing some of its welfare to boost the welfare of another country.

    You dislike patriotism, but disliking patriotism is something done by idealouges who have no conception of the real world, no drive to be successful in life, no ambition, and nothing to offer to the world. We have been lucky enough to be born in Britain, it is time we exploited our luck to give us the best lives possible.

    I thought this might interest you mobbsy91 Jammy Duel Rakas21, I am hearing from a friend in the Tory circle that backbench MPs are agreeing to support a bid to make Andrea Leadsom party leader.
    Unlikely to happen

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    (Original post by The Financier)
    In the short term, it seems rather unlikely. JP Morgan have just let four buildings in Madrid and six buildings in Frankfurt as part of their contingency plans. It may very well be the case that this event is used as a cost-cutting measure to cut off expensive London operations for cheaper operations on the European mainland.

    The interesting question is what the likes of Goldman Sachs will do. They're currently in the process of building a massive new European HQ in Farringdon - would they really abandon it now?
    They were talking in the long term, not immediately

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Unlikely to happen

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    I was surprised, it is staring to be reported in the mainstream news with her odds slowly falling; I do not think she would be a bad choice.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I was surprised, it is staring to be reported in the mainstream news with her odds slowly falling; I do not think she would be a bad choice.
    They certainly have been falling, she's a good speaker, but there is more to the position than that.

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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    There is no real prospect of independence for Wales though is there? Far too interwoven with England and, at the risk of sounding patronising, not really equipped to thrive as an independent nation.
    Wales is in no economic, or in all honesty geographic, place to be independent, but that doesn't stop the growth of blind optimism. If we know anything now, the economy is not always going to stop people voting with their guts.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    To be honest, I think if you're not doing something for yourself, and you're doing it for someone else, then you're doing it for someone else to make yourself happy. So basically, everything you do, is for yourself, which ever way you look at it.
    I agree.
    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Wanting to remain part of the EU is thinking little of yourself, wanting to remain part of the EU is a vote of no confidence in your ability as a country to prosper on the global stage. I do not want collectivism, I do not want togetherness, I do not want to be an EU citizen, I do not want free movement of people, nor do I want to help poor countries develop. I want to see a Britain making decision that are in Britain's best interests, I do not want to see Britain sacrificing some of its welfare to boost the welfare of another country.
    its not a vote of no confidence it's being realistic and saying we want a brighter more colectivist world.

    You dislike patriotism, but disliking patriotism is something done by idealouges who have no conception of the real world, no drive to be successful in life, no ambition, and nothing to offer to the world. We have been lucky enough to be born in Britain, it is time we exploited our luck to give us the best lives possible.

    I thought this might interest you mobbsy91 Jammy Duel Rakas21, I am hearing from a friend in the Tory circle that backbench MPs are agreeing to support a bid to make Andrea Leadsom party leader.
    patriotism is being proud of your country often for its achievements. Like you say "oh I'm proud to be British because we did amazingly at teh olypics" or "we were a great nation of innovators" or "we won the war" you did none of that and didn't help at all!!! To love your country which is an arbitrary peice of land just because you happened to be born in the same area as another person is stupid.

    To claim I have no drive and ambition is plain wrong. I plan on going to uni, getting a maters and then a PhD and then becoming a politician or an academic. I don't seek lots of money but to change the world for the better.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Patriotism is the most stupid of all stupid emotions.
    (Original post by Aph)
    Patriotism is either elitist indoctrination or pure selfishness wanting to feel good about a worthless life.
    I actually find your comments offensive now, before they were just irritating trying to find ways around the result, but now you're down right insulting. Am I patriotic? Absolutely I am when we're a small island, yet we've got a global language, we've produced some amazing literature (Shakespeare, Jane Austin, Charles Dickens), our music is eclectic, yet widely regarded and makes a mark on the world (the Beatles, the Who, Adele, Glastonbury etc.), and we have the cherished BBC whatever its flaws may be. Our House of Commons is a beacon of democracy the whole world over, Her Majesty the Queen admired for her longevity and her steadfast devotion to public service, our gorgeous idyllic countryside the envy of the world, our vibrant, diverse cities a melting pot of culture and history. Our artists rank among the best and most inventive Damien Hirst, Banksy, Tracey Emin. We are an amazing group of island and the fact that you think I'm stupid for being proud of my country is really really insulting and patronising. If you don't want to be proud of what the UK has achieved, then don't be, but may I suggest that you log out of this site (a British creation) and never use the internet again (invented by another Brit).
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I was surprised, it is staring to be reported in the mainstream news with her odds slowly falling; I do not think she would be a bad choice.
    In the short term to steady the ship, she'd be great, but I don't see her as a long term leader, yet. I think she may be the dark horse though - she's more likeable than May and comes across really well.
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    Interestingly the pound index and S&P futures almost perfectly followed each other

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    (Original post by toronto353)
    I actually find your comments offensive now, before they were just irritating trying to find ways around the result, but now you're down right insulting. Am I patriotic? Absolutely I am when we're a small island, yet we've got a global language, we've produced some amazing literature (Shakespeare, Jane Austin, Charles Dickens), our music is eclectic, yet widely regarded and makes a mark on the world (the Beatles, the Who, Adele, Glastonbury etc.), and we have the cherished BBC whatever its flaws may be. Our House of Commons is a beacon of democracy the whole world over, Her Majesty the Queen admired for her longevity and her steadfast devotion to public service, our gorgeous idyllic countryside the envy of the world, our vibrant, diverse cities a melting pot of culture and history. Our artists rank among the best and most inventive Damien Hirst, Banksy, Tracey Emin. We are an amazing group of island and the fact that you think I'm stupid for being proud of my country is really really insulting and patronising. If you don't want to be proud of what the UK has achieved, then don't be, but may I suggest that you log out of this site (a British creation) and never use the internet again (invented by another Brit).
    Hear, hear!

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    "will meet with the EU president"

    Which one? You can tell this is American news

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    Lol, fox think Cameron will be ousted before he resigns, not a chance

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    (Original post by toronto353)
    I actually find your comments offensive now, before they were just irritating trying to find ways around the result, but now you're down right insulting. Am I patriotic? Absolutely I am when we're a small island, yet we've got a global language, we've produced some amazing literature (Shakespeare, Jane Austin, Charles Dickens), our music is eclectic, yet widely regarded and makes a mark on the world (the Beatles, the Who, Adele, Glastonbury etc.), and we have the cherished BBC whatever its flaws may be. Our House of Commons is a beacon of democracy the whole world over, Her Majesty the Queen admired for her longevity and her steadfast devotion to public service, our gorgeous idyllic countryside the envy of the world, our vibrant, diverse cities a melting pot of culture and history. Our artists rank among the best and most inventive Damien Hirst, Banksy, Tracey Emin. We are an amazing group of island and the fact that you think I'm stupid for being proud of my country is really really insulting and patronising. If you don't want to be proud of what the UK has achieved, then don't be, but may I suggest that you log out of this site (a British creation) and never use the internet again (invented by another Brit).
    But it isn't the UK but people. You have not done or had an impact on anything you have listed there you just happened to be born in a place whe Shakespeare, dickens, banksey ect. Was born. I generally consider you to be thoughtful and inciteful but I just fundamentally disagree with you.

    Also your last point is complete nonsense and a Farse. I'm not patriotic because I don't need the achievements of other people to feel good about myself. I just honestly can't see why you don't understand what I'm saying!!! You seem to be getting offended for little reason which is something you complain about a lot IIRC.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Hear, hear!

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    Interestingly, our first trade talks look to be getting underway, with Ghana (http://pulse.com.gh/business/after-b...id5188747.html)

    (Original post by Aph)
    But it isn't the UK but people. You have not done or had an impact on anything you have listed there you just happened to be born in a place whe Shakespeare, dickens, banksey ect. Was born. I generally consider you to be thoughtful and inciteful but I just fundamentally disagree with you.

    Also your last point is complete nonsense and a Farse. I'm not patriotic because I don't need the achievements of other people to feel good about myself. I just honestly can't see why you don't understand what I'm saying!!! You seem to be getting offended for little reason which is something you complain about a lot IIRC.
    Yes, but we celebrate our own and the achievements of our people. Again, being patriotic is not about using the achievements of others to feel good about yourself, it's about celebrating this country. I'm offended because of the way that you are so shamefully dismissive of this country and those that don't agree with your somewhat unusual views. I'm offended because you are calling me stupid for being proud of this great country.
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    George Orwell said that there was a shame of britishness amongst the intellectual. Nice to know that isnt that limited

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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Interestingly, our first trade talks look to be getting underway, with Ghana (http://pulse.com.gh/business/after-b...id5188747.html)



    Yes, but we celebrate our own and the achievements of our people. Again, being patriotic is not about using the achievements of others to feel good about yourself, it's about celebrating this country. I'm offended because of the way that you are so shamefully dismissive of this country and those that don't agree with your somewhat unusual views. I'm offended because you are calling me stupid for being proud of this great country.
    I expect talks with America to start soon

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