Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TunaTunnel)
    Yes I do, whats an SKE?
    Subject knowledge enhancement. Normally if it is for maths you can actually get paid to do these. A girl on my course who was doing maths had a maths degree but did the SKE over the summer anyway because she got paid.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airfairy)
    Subject knowledge enhancement. Normally if it is for maths you can actually get paid to do these. A girl on my course who was doing maths had a maths degree but did the SKE over the summer anyway because she got paid.
    I'd probably want to do one anyway. I've spent so long doing advanced physics completed unrelated to the national curriculum.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TunaTunnel)
    I'd probably want to do one anyway. I've spent so long doing advanced physics completed unrelated to the national curriculum.
    Oh yeah, for sure. I would want to. But yeah, You'd definitely be able to go into maths teaching.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TunaTunnel)
    If I have a masters in physics (with astronomy) would it be possible to do a PGCE/HMC teacher training course in mathematics?

    I love Physics as a subject, but pre-GCSE physics is just so dull and over simplified, you sparsely go into any depth and honestly, it doesnt feel like physics.
    Easily - I know several people who've done it. As long as you can justify a passion for mathematics and teaching it, you should be fine (I would make the argument that maths at school is focused on applications, which is physics anyway).

    As someone else said, there's also Physics with Maths, which I have really enjoyed this year. And it is worth noting that any half-decent physics teacher won't spend much time teaching below GCSE-level in their career if they don't want to, particularly in schools with a sixth form. But if you have a passion for teaching mathematics, you shouldn't have much of an issue at all.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Sure, it is an ADVANTAGE.

    However, your subject knowledge is what counts.

    Also, considering the fact there is and will always be a need for teachers the PGCE side of things, meh. Just a fancy tag ^_-

    What is your subject? Mine is Drama.

    (Original post by Airfairy)
    Well yes, but speaking from experience (I've failed two essays so have spoken to people and done some research) having only QTS and no PGCE is a disadvantage. However, it does depend on your subject. My subject(s) is too competitive for QTS to be enough. If I don't get my PGCE then I will instantly be weeded out in the application process as most will have PGCE. (y)
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xjay1234)
    Sure, it is an ADVANTAGE.

    However, your subject knowledge is what counts.

    Also, considering the fact there is and will always be a need for teachers the PGCE side of things, meh. Just a fancy tag ^_-

    What is your subject? Mine is Drama.
    Hmm. I highly advise trying to pass the essays. There will always be a need for teachers, yes, and if you were doing a PGCE in a subject like Maths then fine, but for a subject like Drama where it is much more competitive to get a job, if you apply with QTS and there are 20 other people with PGCEs then of course you won't even be in with a chance.

    I am in no way arguing that I think the PGCE should mean something, because I personally don't think there is any difference in the quality of a teacher between one with QTS and one who wrote some essays on theory based stuff, but teaching is competitive in a lot of subjects and it's just another filter.

    From my own experience subject knowledge is DEFINITELY not what counts. In fact, I'd say it's pretty low down there on things you are assessed on. It's easy to blag, and I've never had a job interview/application that has focused heavily on it.

    I am R.E. (however I won't be teaching that when I start my job).
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Well, if you subject knowledge is wack - then why is that teacher being hired?

    A lot of silly bureaucracy, in teaching.

    Many ways to getting your role in a school.

    You can join a teaching agency and work in a school via an agency. As you would already be in the school, getting a full time position at that school would be simple, with your QTS only behind.

    Of course, I will want to pass my essays! Of course! I am not going into September looking to fail the PGCE side.

    But, the QTS is what really matters for me.

    I even tried to get onto an assessment only course that just does the QTS (as the PGCE aspect, to me, is nonsense) however I was not able to apply as I never had 3 years of work in a school.

    One thing I have noticed with teaching positions, full stop, is that the applicant is SO much smaller than say an office job or some receptionist role. (regardless of the subject)

    I think, ultimately, once you are QUALIFIED to teach - that is it. Getting a role will not be strenuous.

    R.E cool - I saw many R.E candidates at my interview.

    (Original post by Airfairy)
    Hmm. I highly advise trying to pass the essays. There will always be a need for teachers, yes, and if you were doing a PGCE in a subject like Maths then fine, but for a subject like Drama where it is much more competitive to get a job, if you apply with QTS and there are 20 other people with PGCEs then of course you won't even be in with a chance.

    I am in no way arguing that I think the PGCE should mean something, because I personally don't think there is any difference in the quality of a teacher between one with QTS and one who wrote some essays on theory based stuff, but teaching is competitive in a lot of subjects and it's just another filter.

    From my own experience subject knowledge is DEFINITELY not what counts. In fact, I'd say it's pretty low down there on things you are assessed on. It's easy to blag, and I've never had a job interview/application that has focused heavily on it.

    I am R.E. (however I won't be teaching that when I start my job).
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xjay1234)
    Well, if you subject knowledge is wack - then why is that teacher being hired?

    A lot of silly bureaucracy, in teaching.

    Many ways to getting your role in a school.

    You can join a teaching agency and work in a school via an agency. As you would already be in the school, getting a full time position at that school would be simple, with your QTS only behind.

    Of course, I will want to pass my essays! Of course! I am not going into September looking to fail the PGCE side.

    But, the QTS is what really matters for me.

    I even tried to get onto an assessment only course that just does the QTS (as the PGCE aspect, to me, is nonsense) however I was not able to apply as I never had 3 years of work in a school.

    One thing I have noticed with teaching positions, full stop, is that the applicant is SO much smaller than say an office job or some receptionist role. (regardless of the subject)

    I think, ultimately, once you are QUALIFIED to teach - that is it. Getting a role will not be strenuous.

    R.E cool - I saw many R.E candidates at my interview.
    You're being employed to teach your subject. Knowing your subject and being able to teach it are not the same thing.

    Of course good subject knowledge is important. But subject knowledge alone will not make you a good teacher. In an ideal world, everyone would have excellent subject knowledge and excellent teaching skills, classroom presence, etc. But in reality that doesn't always happen and it's better to be a good teacher with a few gaps in subject knowledge which you can brush up as needed, than a poor teacher who has excellent subject knowledge but is unable to manage a class or communicate ideas clearly to pupils.

    I agree that a lot of the PGCE stuff is a bit pointless (and to be honest, my PGCE essays weren't intellectually demanding at all compared to my BA and MA) but it is worth having. Clearly if you're on a PGCE course and come out of it without a PGCE qualification questions might be asked about why you haven't passed it (even though as you rightly say, QTS is the important bit in terms of being able to teach).

    thing to bear in mind is that if you might ever consider working overseas, some countries (notably Australia) only recognise the PGCE and will not accept other teaching qualifications.

    Generally getting a job in teaching is fairly doable, yes, and a teacher shortage is growing. But in reality this still means that some schools will have a lot of applicants, and some schools (generally those which are not a very nice place to work!) will have none. So you want to be the best candidate you can be on paper to give you a better chance in a wider range of workplaces.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xjay1234)
    Well, if you subject knowledge is wack - then why is that teacher being hired?

    A lot of silly bureaucracy, in teaching.

    Many ways to getting your role in a school.

    You can join a teaching agency and work in a school via an agency. As you would already be in the school, getting a full time position at that school would be simple, with your QTS only behind.

    Of course, I will want to pass my essays! Of course! I am not going into September looking to fail the PGCE side.

    But, the QTS is what really matters for me.

    I even tried to get onto an assessment only course that just does the QTS (as the PGCE aspect, to me, is nonsense) however I was not able to apply as I never had 3 years of work in a school.

    One thing I have noticed with teaching positions, full stop, is that the applicant is SO much smaller than say an office job or some receptionist role. (regardless of the subject)

    I think, ultimately, once you are QUALIFIED to teach - that is it. Getting a role will not be strenuous.

    R.E cool - I saw many R.E candidates at my interview.
    Getting a job might not be too much of an issue, but getting one you want can be. Particularly good schools have competitive interview processes even for seriously shortage subjects like Physics and Maths. The PGCE certainly isn't the be-all and end-all, but it's another string to your bow that can make you stand out (I also found some of the theory useful in my teaching, although much was idealistic to say the least).
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xjay1234)
    Sure, it is an ADVANTAGE.

    However, your subject knowledge is what counts.

    Also, considering the fact there is and will always be a need for teachers the PGCE side of things, meh. Just a fancy tag ^_-

    What is your subject? Mine is Drama.
    Hmmm. I start my Schools Direct PGCE at the end of August (Maths.) I have already been asked to start planning my first lessons for Yr 7 and 8 classes. (Don't worry - these are draft plans for submission and discussion with my mentor, I trust I won't be inflicted on the pupils unsupported/untested!)

    So here's the thing. I know the Maths - its really quite simple. In fact, so simple to me, that I'm having to think really hard about how to explain how to do it. For me, I guess, explaining HOW you undertake basic fraction-work is hard, because I'm so used to just doing it without thought. So much for good subject knowledge being all you need!

    And then there are the other things I'm having to think about. How do I get across the concept to pupils who will have different starting abilities? And how can I find out those abilities quickly and effectively? And how can I tell whether my teaching is hitting the mark across all the abilities in my classroom? And what about the children I know will be in the class with particular needs - including specific learning needs and disabilities? Again - my subject knowledge is REALLY good, but not much help here!

    So I can't really comment on whether a PGCE as such is required to be an excellent teacher, but at minus 1 months into my training, from the first task I've been asked to do, I can already confirm that while good subject knowledge is definitely necessary to teach, it is nowhere near sufficient as all you need!
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Well, of course, there are many different, personal, qualities and tools needed to teach efficiently.

    It will be an exciting time for me, come September.

    (Original post by neilcn)
    Hmmm. I start my Schools Direct PGCE at the end of August (Maths.) I have already been asked to start planning my first lessons for Yr 7 and 8 classes. (Don't worry - these are draft plans for submission and discussion with my mentor, I trust I won't be inflicted on the pupils unsupported/untested!)

    So here's the thing. I know the Maths - its really quite simple. In fact, so simple to me, that I'm having to think really hard about how to explain how to do it. For me, I guess, explaining HOW you undertake basic fraction-work is hard, because I'm so used to just doing it without thought. So much for good subject knowledge being all you need!

    And then there are the other things I'm having to think about. How do I get across the concept to pupils who will have different starting abilities? And how can I find out those abilities quickly and effectively? And how can I tell whether my teaching is hitting the mark across all the abilities in my classroom? And what about the children I know will be in the class with particular needs - including specific learning needs and disabilities? Again - my subject knowledge is REALLY good, but not much help here!

    So I can't really comment on whether a PGCE as such is required to be an excellent teacher, but at minus 1 months into my training, from the first task I've been asked to do, I can already confirm that while good subject knowledge is definitely necessary to teach, it is nowhere near sufficient as all you need!
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Yes, I think it is all down to you USP (unique selling point) what experience you have - what you can bring etc etc etc.

    But, like I said earlier - I am not looking to FAIL my PGCE side of course not, that would be stupid.

    But, the QTS has and will always be my primary goal.


    (Original post by tory88)
    Getting a job might not be too much of an issue, but getting one you want can be. Particularly good schools have competitive interview processes even for seriously shortage subjects like Physics and Maths. The PGCE certainly isn't the be-all and end-all, but it's another string to your bow that can make you stand out (I also found some of the theory useful in my teaching, although much was idealistic to say the least).
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Yes, of course.

    Many different tools are necessary to be an outstanding teacher - not just subject knowledge, of course.

    I think, my thing is, after I finished my 10k word dissertation - academic writing I was glad to see the back of.

    Indeed, I don't know what the future holds; if I wanted to teach abroad then of course PGCE qualification is needed.

    Anyway, all the best.


    (Original post by myrtille)
    You're being employed to teach your subject. Knowing your subject and being able to teach it are not the same thing.

    Of course good subject knowledge is important. But subject knowledge alone will not make you a good teacher. In an ideal world, everyone would have excellent subject knowledge and excellent teaching skills, classroom presence, etc. But in reality that doesn't always happen and it's better to be a good teacher with a few gaps in subject knowledge which you can brush up as needed, than a poor teacher who has excellent subject knowledge but is unable to manage a class or communicate ideas clearly to pupils.

    I agree that a lot of the PGCE stuff is a bit pointless (and to be honest, my PGCE essays weren't intellectually demanding at all compared to my BA and MA) but it is worth having. Clearly if you're on a PGCE course and come out of it without a PGCE qualification questions might be asked about why you haven't passed it (even though as you rightly say, QTS is the important bit in terms of being able to teach).

    thing to bear in mind is that if you might ever consider working overseas, some countries (notably Australia) only recognise the PGCE and will not accept other teaching qualifications.

    Generally getting a job in teaching is fairly doable, yes, and a teacher shortage is growing. But in reality this still means that some schools will have a lot of applicants, and some schools (generally those which are not a very nice place to work!) will have none. So you want to be the best candidate you can be on paper to give you a better chance in a wider range of workplaces.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Would it be beneficial in the future to sit Biology/Chemistry A-levels? I only offer physics, some places have a preference for all sciences.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TunaTunnel)
    Would it be beneficial in the future to sit Biology/Chemistry A-levels? I only offer physics, some places have a preference for all sciences.
    Physics specialists are in particularly high demand, so you shouldn't have too much difficulty in finding a job.

    However, whilst a school might be able to give you just Physics classes at GCSE (and certainly at A-Level), you will almost certainly have to teach general "Science" at KS3, regardless of whether you have qualifications in those subjects. So you need to be prepared to be flexible and to brush up any areas where your subject knowledge isn't great.

    Ultimately, when you get a job your Head will deploy you as they see fit. I'm an MFL teacher and we have had a History teacher, an RE teacher and a Maths teacher teaching some French and Spanish lessons this year as my department is overstaffed. I also know people from my PGCE who are French and German specialists, but their school has required them to teach beginners Spanish despite their having no qualifications in the subject. So don't be surprised if you are asked to teach Biology or Chemistry at some point.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TunaTunnel)
    Would it be beneficial in the future to sit Biology/Chemistry A-levels? I only offer physics, some places have a preference for all sciences.
    If you work in a secondary school, you will have to teach Chemistry and Biology at some point - certainly not at A-level but potentially at GCSE level and definitely at KS3 level.

    A school can deploy you where they see fit - I'm trained in history but will also be teaching RS next year despite no qualification and no formal training in teaching RS.

    I was asked at interview whether or not I could offer a second subject and I offered up a few. I'm quite excited for RS.

    My old mentor was a history teacher who had a degree in history and English literature but taught Business studies at GCSE.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Wanted some application advice. If you're looking at doing a non-competitive subject such as physics would it be possible to aim slightly higher than usual and put 3 competitive universities (Oxbridge, Durham ect) down on UCAS for Apply 1 because you'll always be able to still get a (albeit decent) place using Apply 2? Im a bit unsure as im on the 2:2/2:1 borderline with a lot of experience (~10+ schools) and a masters at a top uni but I dont want to take too much of a risk.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TunaTunnel)
    Wanted some application advice. If you're looking at doing a non-competitive subject such as physics would it be possible to aim slightly higher than usual and put 3 competitive universities (Oxbridge, Durham ect) down on UCAS for Apply 1 because you'll always be able to still get a (albeit decent) place using Apply 2? Im a bit unsure as im on the 2:2/2:1 borderline with a lot of experience (~10+ schools) and a masters at a top uni but I dont want to take too much of a risk.
    ALL Universities for a PGCE are competitive.

    Reputation and prestige of a university is less important at the PGCE level. The PGCE is standardised and whereas universities who are ranked very low for lots of degrees, they can be ranked extremely highly and are well respected in the education world for a PGCE/ITT. For instance, CCCU is ranked below 100 overall, but is top 5 for teaching training.

    You also do not have this experience as of yet. Wait until you receive your overall classification before you make your choices for universities.

    Also, as far as I'm aware,lots of ITT providers (Oxford of the top of my head) don't have a Physics PGCE, but rather, have a science PGCE. Or will offer a PGCE in Physics with Maths, or Physics with Science.

    From my own experiences, I didn't get a place in apply 1 but got in to a top 5 provider in apply 2.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Samus2)
    ALL Universities for a PGCE are competitive.

    Reputation and prestige of a university is less important at the PGCE level. The PGCE is standardised and whereas universities who are ranked very low for lots of degrees, they can be ranked extremely highly and are well respected in the education world for a PGCE/ITT. For instance, CCCU is ranked below 100 overall, but is top 5 for teaching training.

    You also do not have this experience as of yet. Wait until you receive your overall classification before you make your choices for universities.

    Also, as far as I'm aware,lots of ITT providers (Oxford of the top of my head) don't have a Physics PGCE, but rather, have a science PGCE. Or will offer a PGCE in Physics with Maths, or Physics with Science.

    From my own experiences, I didn't get a place in apply 1 but got in to a top 5 provider in apply 2.
    I'm currently in my masters year, I wont get my classification until I graduate in June so I can only predict really.

    What ranking system would be used? I only found http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...gs?s=education

    Which seems generic to education not specifically PGCE.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TunaTunnel)
    I'm currently in my masters year, I wont get my classification until I graduate in June so I can only predict really.

    What ranking system would be used? I only found http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...gs?s=education

    Which seems generic to education not specifically PGCE.
    So you'd be applying for 2016 entry? Do you have your results for this year?

    Consider aswell the sort of area you would like to work in - personally I feel like that should be a huge consideration when applying for the PGCE and you will be spending the year working in schools in that area.

    You can usually judge the Course provider based on their employment and OFSTED rating as a base.

    I think off the top of my head, the guardian allows you to compare training providers based on these statistics.

    I think it's also important to inform you at this tstage that doing your PGCE at a 'better' university, really does not matter at the PGCE stage. You have a solid degree/MSc from a good university for your undergrad which is more important imo.

    Also, I'm not sure if it works the same for undergrad as it does for PGCE but can you apply to both Cambridge and Oxford?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.