Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Cryptographic
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#7121
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#7121
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Still flabergasted at that comment from you. I'm probably going to refrain from debating with you as you are clearly not up to speed.

RBS isn't a scottish bank mate...its a name, it could be called R bank of south africa... it wouldn't mean its a south african bank.
I see that having no evidence to back up your claim that I asked you to justify above you have decided to try and insult me.

In the event of independence, RBS, which is headquartered in Edinburgh, would be Scottish (But still operate in rUK as well) and therefore in the event of a bailout then rUK would bailout a Scottish bank. What I using above is called a hypothetical scenario.
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Cryptographic
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#7122
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#7122
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Well why did you ask for a source that outlines currency option? pretty stupid to ask if you already knew! So that other people browsing this thread would see both sides.

It says specifically "It would of course be open to people in Scotland to choose a different arrangement in the future"

The paper outlines 4 options, it selected the one that it thinks is best for both parties and details why. Then says... the other 4 options are still there.... what more do you want? a list detailing priority? Yes, that is what most people want.get a grip. Lets ask everyone to prioritize... lets ask every politician but what if.. what if that one cant happen... what if that one cant... and that one.... ridiculous.
No, one option has been quite clearly ruled out, so it is irresponsible of the Yes campaign not to provide one clear alternative.
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1tartanarmy
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#7123
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#7123
(Original post by Cryptographic)
No, one option has been quite clearly ruled out, so it is irresponsible of the Yes campaign not to provide one clear alternative.
Aye but me...and the majority of scots don't believe it. Most of us see it for what it is...an attempt to bully the yes campaign into choosing a stupid option when they know fine well its the one that would happen.


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Cryptographic
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#7124
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#7124
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Aye but me...and the majority of scots don't believe it. Most of us see it for what it is...an attempt to bully the yes campaign into choosing a stupid option when they know fine well its the one that would happen.


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I believe that Scotland should have fully independence or limited devolution, not much in between. The £ is RUK's if Scotland decides to leave the UK, they should be aware that they are leaving the £.
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1tartanarmy
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#7125
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#7125
(Original post by Cryptographic)
I see that having no evidence to back up your claim that I asked you to justify above you have decided to try and insult me.

In the event of independence, RBS, which is headquartered in Edinburgh, would be Scottish (But still operate in rUK as well) and therefore in the event of a bailout then rUK would bailout a Scottish bank. What I using above is called a hypothetical scenario.
Tut tut tut...companies and banks can have headquarters in more than one country...banks can operate across more than one country. Santander...by your logic you don't want Santander (spanish) operating here?

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1tartanarmy
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#7126
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#7126
(Original post by Cryptographic)
No, one option has been quite clearly ruled out, so it is irresponsible of the Yes campaign not to provide one clear alternative.
Why ask me for a source that outlines the options if you have already read it in the white paper? Why as for a source of you already have it? Wheres the logic?

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Midlander
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#7127
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#7127
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Why ask me for a source that outlines the options if you have already read it in the white paper? Why as for a source of you already have it? Wheres the logic?

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Nicola Sturgeon was asked what the Plan B was. She said the UK parties were bluffing. Alex Salmond was asked what the Plan B was. He said the UK parties were bluffing.

Let's suppose David Cameron was asked what the plan is if Scotland goes independent and he replied 'the Scots are bluffing'. Would you call that an acceptable reply?


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Cryptographic
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#7128
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#7128
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Tut tut tut...companies and banks can have headquarters in more than one country...banks can operate across more than one country. Santander...by your logic you don't want Santander (spanish) operating here?

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They are primarily based in Scotland.

(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Why ask me for a source that outlines the options if you have already read it in the white paper? Why as for a source of you already have it? Wheres the logic?

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For ****'s sake, I have already answered this question, 'So that others browsing this thread can see the evidence.'
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Maths Tutor
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#7129
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#7129
(Original post by Boab)
Hahahaha.

I just got a blue card for trolling. You couldn't make this up!!

I'll leave you guys to it, might pop back in early September, see how confident you all still are then.
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
The censorship going on around the debate is shocking. SPT have been hit by hundreds of complaints for "banning" a wings over Scotland advertisement enticing people to the website. Yet pro union newspapers are allowed to entice people to go to their websites....you couldn't make this up.

Not content with blocking people from debating on the better together facebook page, I made one point backing it up with stats and was banned...ridiculous.

And now you have a blue card for trolling...making you less likely to fight your case...didn't think TSR would be like that...some power hungry unionist mod perhaps?
A few months ago, my posts on TSR were removed because I had linked to Wings over Scotland articles comprehensively demolishing the lies of 'Better Together' and the unionist press in Scotland.

Yet TSR doesn't have any problems with the numerous links to the rabidly anti-independence The Scotsman and The Telegraph posted by the likes of MatureStudent36.

We have seen nothing yet as far as the tactics of No Scotland are concerned.
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Midlander
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#7130
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#7130
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
A few months ago, my posts on TSR were removed because I had linked to Wings over Scotland articles comprehensively demolishing the lies of 'Better Together' and the unionist press in Scotland.

Yet TSR doesn't have any problems with the numerous links to the rabidly anti-independence The Scotsman and The Telegraph posted by the likes of MatureStudent36.

We have seen nothing yet as far as the tactics of No Scotland are concerned.
It may have been more to do with almost every post being an incoherent rant typed in bold and upper case.


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1tartanarmy
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#7131
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#7131
(Original post by Midlander)
It may have been more to do with almost every post being an incoherent rant typed in bold and upper case.


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Myself , boab and maths tutor present our arguments in the most respectful way possible and link to our evidence where applicable.

The same goes with the bulk of the unionists on here...

However, there is a growing opinion that yes scotland has not been given a fair fight. The BBC has articles published at a 3:1 ratio in favour of the union. SPT is banning wings over scotland, better together don't let me debate on their page. Why?
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Midlander
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#7132
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#7132
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Myself , boab and maths tutor present our arguments in the most respectful way possible and link to our evidence where applicable.

The same goes with the bulk of the unionists on here...

However, there is a growing opinion that yes scotland has not been given a fair fight. The BBC has articles published at a 3:1 ratio in favour of the union. SPT is banning wings over scotland, better together don't let me debate on their page. Why?
Were you on here when Maths Tutor was posting last year?


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1tartanarmy
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#7133
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#7133
(Original post by Midlander)
Were you on here when Maths Tutor was posting last year?


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I'm not sure if I'm being honest, if maths tutor was using caps then of course I'm not going to condone that. I didn't know that if its true.

I feel many in the yes camp should just keep their mouths closed...the same can be said for better together ( george galloway, lamont, kermit the frog)

I just wish I could convince some of you to vote yes. I really do think this island will benefit as a whole...and midlander...I would love to have an annual british event or something to come together and celebrate our history and future as an island. Hey thats just me...the Rangers fan in me perhaps...I dunno.
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Midlander
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#7134
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#7134
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
I'm not sure if I'm being honest, if maths tutor was using caps then of course I'm not going to condone that. I didn't know that if its true.

I feel many in the yes camp should just keep their mouths closed...the same can be said for better together ( george galloway, lamont, kermit the frog)

I just wish I could convince some of you to vote yes. I really do think this island will benefit as a whole...and midlander...I would love to have an annual british event or something to come together and celebrate our history and future as an island. Hey thats just me...the Rangers fan in me perhaps...I dunno.
I have nothing against people being passionate about Scottish independence. What really spoils the Yes campaign is the vocal ones among them who clearly have an agenda to be divisive and in some cases bigoted. I also feel very let down by Better Together in their poor campaigning style and predictably dour comments.

Despite my comments about anti English sentiment up here I am very passionate about the good things that have been accomplished in the union. For example, the number of times I've spent hours talking to a Scot about football and finding that we're basically no different culture wise, I find it stunning why the Yes campaign finds it important.



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flugelr
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#7135
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#7135
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
SPT is banning wings over scotland
Wings Over Scotland is a website that promotes xenophobic, transphobic and downright racist material.

Why on earth are they allowed to advertise in public at all is the real question!
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Midlander
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#7136
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#7136
The number of times Wings Over Scotland has been mentioned lately, I thought I'd give it a whirl and see what the fuss was about. Looking at the section titled '40 reasons to vote yes':

'This is what you're voting for if you vote no:

14. £100bn spent on Trident (stationed on the Clyde because it's too dangerous for England)

24. £5bn of Scottish money spent on English infrastructure

37. Wage cuts for anyone outside south-east England'

To any Yes voters here, could you not see, just a teeny bit, that this looks like people catching on anti-English sentiment and using it to fuel the cause? Tartanarmy, it's things like this putting me off your movement big time.

Edit: I forgot to read the comments below:

'After Scottish independence, would Scotland expect a tide of English refugees? Is it known how a former UK citizen would be regarded as English or Scottish?If I wasn’t living in Australia I’d be moving to Scotland about now.'

'There are no signs whatsoever that Labour or the Lib Dems in Scotland disagree with hauling Scotland back into line, quite the opposite. Everything Lamont and Rennie have said so far has been a drastic shift to the right, an end to universalism and bringing us in line with England.


So we have to assume this is what will happen with a NO – Scotland will be pulled into line with England, as all in the NO campaign are suggesting.

If this assumption is wrong and the NO campaign has some other vision for Scotland, they should outline it, along with how they intend to fund it, because the Barnett formula will become increasingly useless to Scotland as public services in England are privatised.'

'Fine article, Catriona.
“”So we have to assume this is what will happen with a NO – Scotland will be pulled into line with England, as all in the NO campaign are suggesting”"
Or – more likely dragged behind a line dictated by England. '

I could go on. How on Earth can people really hold such ridiculous and bigoted opinions?
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crayz
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#7137
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#7137
bad thing because giving up your empire is dumb. We need to take back Ireland, India, Canada, Australia etc and maybe the USA when our military eclipses theirs.
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MatureStudent36
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#7138
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#7138
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Actually, a currency union would mean Scotland is responsible for its share of any financial crisis...wherever the bank is based...so 8.4% of any bailouts.
Sadly it wouldn't. The recent banking crisis shows that we have too large a banking sector .
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Good bloke
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#7139
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#7139
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Actually, a currency union would mean Scotland is responsible for its share of any financial crisis...wherever the bank is based...so 8.4% of any bailouts.
No it wouldn't, and that wouldn't work. If I remember my numbers correctly it took double Scotland's GDP to perform the Scottish side of the 2008 bail-out, which would be clearly impossible for Scotland to manage on its own. In a currency union, the UK would have to pick up the pieces for Scotland, yet Scotland could not manage the same for the UK, which is why we don't want a currency union.

Don't make a fool of yourself... there is no scottish and english banks...its just a name. They all operate in all countries of the UK. If banks only operated in Scotland the bailout would not have been nearly as big simply due to population size.
It isn't about the bit that operates in Scotland, and Scotland's banking sector is dangerously too high for the size of the Scottish economy.

If you don't understand these matters you shouldn't be basing a decision on them. But then, you aren't, are you?
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honeywhite
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#7140
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#7140
(Original post by Midlander)
Nicola Sturgeon was asked what the Plan B was. She said the UK parties were bluffing. Alex Salmond was asked what the Plan B was. He said the UK parties were bluffing.

Let's suppose David Cameron was asked what the plan is if Scotland goes independent and he replied 'the Scots are bluffing'. Would you call that an acceptable reply?


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Hayull to the NO! But then I suppose a fat potato-headed eejit like Salmond wouldn't have the intelligence to come up with anything else!
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