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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I do believe the EU is now going to rapidly progress down the road of either disintegration or federalisation.
    (Original post by toronto353)
    I suspect we may see one or two more states go depending on how certain election results go, especially in Holland and France.
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I see little reason to change the opinion that i've held for a few years which is that what we'll see is half a dozen nations leaving but a core of about 20 that go the whole hog. Once the federation is born and the commission/parliament gets real power we'll then see a surge across the Med and into the Middle East.

    We're probably looking at 2030 before a federation is born though.
    I think they are going to start to fast track it but a few more nations will leave.

    I think it will be finished by 2025.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    I suspect we may see one or two more states go depending on how certain election results go, especially in Holland and France.
    Holland certainly, having lost a key free trade partner in the UK, may well leave. But I very much doubt it will happen in France.

    The socialists will never allow a referendum and, unless Sarkozy is feeling particularly desperate, neither will the Republicans.

    Marine Le Pen, the only major leader who would support a French exit, is essentially barred from becoming President by the two-round system. So a French exit is very unlikely, especially considering that France has an actual ideological commitment to the idea of Europe.

    If France did leave though, I think that would be the end of the EU.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    We certainly would not be happy, we'd have lost a part of the greater whole.

    That said, England is all but permanently Tory even with London. Since we joined the EU, Labour have won an English plurality just twice. That should really scare the crap out of the left.



    A British exit removes by far the largest active road block to federalisation. Take out the UK, Poland, Lithuania, Croatia and Latvia and at a government level at least, you basically have no opposition to it.
    yes, it would create a socialist state and a capitalist one.

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I do believe the EU is now going to rapidly progress down the road of either disintegration or federalisation.
    I hope it's federalisation we need a USE
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Do we return to imperial weights and measures now we are to leave the EU?
    I hope so, if it weren't for the TSR referendum last year I'd have submitted a PMB already

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I do believe the EU is now going to rapidly progress down the road of either disintegration or federalisation.
    I think it's a toss up, it depends how many of the potential other leavers go, I think it not unreasonable for it to fall apart if they aren't careful with federalisation as key players like Italy and France would leave

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    I reckon yesterday might have been the third most significant day of the century so far, unless I'm missing some things, I give it

    1) Collapse of the Lehmann Brothers
    2) 9/11
    3) Brexit vote

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    With Jezza and Cameron facing removal I'd like to call on Arlene Foster to resign for ignoring the will of her electorate.

    Despite campaigning for Leave, NI voted to Remain, today she announced her pride that the UK voted Remain, totally ignoring the wishes of her people.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    And the Foreign Minister has refused the totally appropriate request for a border poll on a UI, against the wishes of the majority in the Six Counties.

    It's not even a referendum it's a poll.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    And the Foreign Minister has refused the totally appropriate request for a border poll on a UI, against the wishes of the majority in the Six Counties.

    It's not even a referendum it's a poll.
    A majority of NI has not asked for a poll, only Sinn Feinn, a minority party.

    You can't just assume that those who voted to stay put EU membership above the union.

    ..

    At any rate this can't be a shock and you screwed yourself when you underperformed, 55% remain was lower than expected.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    A majority of NI has not asked for a poll, only Sinn Feinn, a minority party.

    You can't just assume that those who voted to stay put EU membership above the union.

    At any rate this can't be a shock and you screwed yourself when you underperformed, 55% remain was lower than expected.
    Sinn Féin is the second largest party and the largest in Ireland.

    There is a democratic imperative for a border poll after NI voted to remain in the EU.

    English votes have overturned the democratic will of Northern Ireland. This was a cross-community vote in favour of remaining in the EU. English voters are dragging the province out of the EU.

    We're guaranteed this right in the Good Friday Agreement, it is better to have a poll than an actual referendum.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Sinn Féin is the second largest party and the largest in Ireland.

    There is a democratic imperative for a border poll after NI voted to remain in the EU.

    English votes have overturned the democratic will of Northern Ireland. This was a cross-community vote in favour of remaining in the EU. English voters are dragging the province out of the EU.

    We're guaranteed this right in the Good Friday Agreement, it is better to have a poll than an actual referendum.
    Their size in Ireland is somewhat irrelevant since sadly, Ireland and the UK are not one however your size in NI is too small to credibly force a poll (only about 24% of people vote for them) and so if you want a poll, you need the other nationalists on board. Are they backing you?

    All points to be made but without a majority of the NI electorate in parliament, somewhat abject.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Sinn Féin is the second largest party and the largest in Ireland.

    There is a democratic imperative for a border poll after NI voted to remain in the EU.

    English votes have overturned the democratic will of Northern Ireland. This was a cross-community vote in favour of remaining in the EU. English voters are dragging the province out of the EU.

    We're guaranteed this right in the Good Friday Agreement, it is better to have a poll than an actual referendum.
    Would you complain if NI had kept England in the EU?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Their size in Ireland is somewhat irrelevant since sadly, Ireland and the UK are not one however your size in NI is too small to credibly force a poll (only about 24% of people vote for them) and so if you want a poll, you need the other nationalists on board. Are they backing you?

    All points to be made but without a majority of the NI electorate in parliament, somewhat abject.
    Other nationalists will always support a UI, and many moderate nationalists and unionists backing remain are now more open to a UI - UK searches for "getting an Irish passport" jumped more than 100% after the Brexit result came through. The most interest was shown in the Six Counties with the unionist stronghold of Holywood, Co Down, taking top spot.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Would you complain if NI had kept England in the EU?
    No.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    No.
    Exactly you would be happy for England to be kept in against their will so accept the results and shut up.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Exactly you would be happy for England to be kept in against their will so accept the results and shut up.
    How would that be?
    If NI had voted leave then it'd be a different situation completely.
    If England had voted in along with the rest of the union then it'd also be a different call.
    Either way England wouldn't be "kept in against their will".

    Also I don't understand why you're acting a prick about it since this is about independence - a different issue to the EU leaving - I was in favour of leaving anyway.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    How would that be?
    If NI had voted leave then it'd be a different situation completely.
    If England had voted in along with the rest of the union then it'd also be a different call.
    Either way England wouldn't be "kept in against their will".

    Also I don't understand why you're acting a prick about it since this is about independence - a different issue to the EU leaving - I was in favour of leaving anyway.
    Because you clear as day just said you wouldn't complain about England being forced to stay in against their will and I am sick of the hypocrisy about this oh scotland and NI have been forced to leave against their will, would you care if England had been forced to stay would you be upset? No.

    If you weren't prepared to offer others the same option if it went the other way I don't care if you are annoyed.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    And the Foreign Minister has refused the totally appropriate request for a border poll on a UI, against the wishes of the majority in the Six Counties.

    It's not even a referendum it's a poll.
    Do you have proof that the majority want a poll?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Do you have proof that the majority want a poll?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The majority might, but either way, this is game-changing evidence - and by right polls and a referendum are allowed through the GFA.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Because you clear as day just said you wouldn't complain about England being forced to stay in against their will and I am sick of the hypocrisy about this oh scotland and NI have been forced to leave against their will, would you care if England had been forced to stay would you be upset? No.

    If you weren't prepared to offer others the same option if it went the other way I don't care if you are annoyed.
    I misread it - if they had been 'forced' to stay in I'd call for their independence - but either way England wouldn't ever have been forced to stay in because they've the largest population of the rest combined.

    England makes up 53 million of the 64.1 million population of the UK.

    I'd advise against your provocative and impolite manner being so new - get to know people first and/or make friends before you go around offending them.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    The majority might, but either way, this is game-changing evidence - and by right polls and a referendum are allowed through the GFA.
    So you're saying that there should be one because it MIGHT be the case it's wanted and you want it?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So you're saying that there should be one because it MIGHT be the case it's wanted and you want it?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    It's a poll not a bloody referendum. Why the hell not? Unionists have stated their concern and are more in favour than before because of the remain vote.
 
 
 
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