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Do you consider UKIP good or bad? watch

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    Meh, I'm still not voting for Clegg or Miliband. Might give Dave another chance.
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    I think they are extremist, who should not deserve to rule the country
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    (Original post by GCSEsitter)
    I think if at least one of the main stream parties promised to control immigration and benefits then they could take the next election. IMO, Ukip are too dangerous to win but some of their policies should be used by other parties
    What do you think they will do once they posses power?, do you think they will go extreme with it?
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    (Original post by hexagonalRod;47856508[COLOR=#404040)
    8) The 2010 manifesto, which Farage has admittedly called "drivel", called for taxi drivers to be required to wear uniforms, dress codes for the theatre and for the Circle line on London's underground to be made a circle again.[/COLOR]
    So the currently party leader has denounced most of the things you've said they stand for...?

    You might as well say the Tories stand for section 28 and La\bour stands for indtroducing ID cards...
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    HexagonalRod - where on earth did your get your so-called facts from?
    And what are you suggesting, that everything that the main 3 parties promises will be carried out. If so then why did students recently go on strike? Why is there a bill, that the UK tax payers will pay for the environmental clean-up and damages if the fracking companies goes bankrupt.
    Its all okay to try to pigeon hole people in left and right wing, when all your trying to do, is divide the nation. When really an educated population should look at what was said in the past, and what has been done to determine credibility of that organisation. And look at the policies objectively, as we all know they get a lot of money from corporation and individual. So they are bias.
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    (Original post by GCSEsitter)
    I think if at least one of the main stream parties promised to control immigration and benefits then they could take the next election. IMO, Ukip are too dangerous to win but some of their policies should be used by other parties
    I can't stand this sort of pandering to populism, but the Conservatives have done precisely that: "Capping Welfare and Reducing Immigration": http://www.conservatives.com/Plan/Ca...migration.aspx.

    Ugh though. I wish they could address people as fully-functional, thinking individuals rather than feeding them misleading soundbites.
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    (Original post by Troytheboy)
    I think they are extremist, who should not deserve to rule the country
    To think UKIP is extremist you must be so far left you make Karl Marx look tory.
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    (Original post by MrKappa)
    Meh, I'm still not voting for Clegg or Miliband. Might give Dave another chance.
    Green?
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    (Original post by TATP)
    To think UKIP is extremist you must be so far left you make Karl Marx look tory.
    Well that's ridiculous... UKIP's policies are pretty much extremist by conservative standards. They're proposing much more sudden changes than the other parties.
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    (Original post by lerjj)
    Well that's ridiculous... UKIP's policies are pretty much extremist by conservative standards. They're proposing much more sudden changes than the other parties.
    They are extremist in the sense they are diverting from the long standing status quo of the 3 main parties. I don't think that is what the guy meant that I was quoting though. I believe he thinks UKIP are extremist in the sense that they are some sort of fascists or neo-nazis in his mind.
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    (Original post by hexagonalRod)
    UKIP have argued for:

    8) The 2010 manifesto, which Farage has admittedly called "drivel", called for taxi drivers to be required to wear uniforms, dress codes for the theatre and for the Circle line on London's underground to be made a circle again.

    9) Their friends in Europe are on the far right

    13) UKIP’s MEPs have consistently failed to represent the interests of women. They have voted against or simply not turned up to key votes in the European Parliament on ensuringequal pay, combating violence against women and ruling out FGM, to name but a few.


    17) Increase in Tax for 88% of the poorest people in Britain.




    In all honestly, I like Britain the way it is, and I'd rather not see it change, the way UKIP does.
    This is devil's advocate as I think their other policies are awful, but here goes: 8) If their previous manifesto has been abandoned, then where are you getting these policies from? Surely moving away from drivel and recognising it as such is only a good thing.

    9) Relevance? I have friends who are conservatives and friends who are green (and some who are UKIP). We know that UKIP are a right-wing party, this is not inherently bad.

    13) Not very excusable, but I didn't think UKIP MEPs voted much at all in the EU parliament, so unless I see better statistics, I shall assume this to be cherry-picking

    17) Seeing as I have tried to argue this point before, I do agree with it. But its quite hard to find those figures as they haven't published any figures and have renounced their previous manifesto (which does do this I think).

    Also, I don't understand why supporting package holidays and making the circle line a circle are bad things. Weird policies perhaps, but not bad (I could be wrong, I don't really know why they are relevant is all).

    Edit: removed the stuff about the female MPs. Misread the text
    /d's advocate
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    (Original post by TATP)
    They are extremist in the sense they are diverting from the long standing status quo of the 3 main parties. I don't think that is what the guy meant that I was quoting though. I believe he thinks UKIP are extremist in the sense that they are some sort of fascists or neo-nazis in his mind.
    And yet you insulted him because of your interpretation, despite accepting that my alternative is perfectly valid? They are extremists in an objective sense. They are also the furthest-right party in our system and so there's some support for a fascist line (although tbh, I only know that fascists are right wing, I'm not really sure what the word means... )
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    (Original post by Skip_Snip)
    Wanting to cut (not entirely stop, CUT) immigration is a fine policy, if they just focused on that, achieved it, and sodded off it would be poifect
    They have four years in power though if you voted for them- they literally can't just do that. Lobby the other parties to introduce your desired immigration policy, don't vote for a one policy party.
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    (Original post by lerjj)
    And yet you insulted him because of your interpretation, despite accepting that my alternative is perfectly valid? They are extremists in an objective sense. They are also the furthest-right party in our system and so there's some support for a fascist line (although tbh, I only know that fascists are right wing, I'm not really sure what the word means... )
    I gathered that from reading his other posts about UKIP previously. He continuously posts "AAAAH UKIP WANT TO TAX THE POOR INTO OBLIVION, PRIVATISE THE NHS TO PAY FOR 100 BANKERS HELICOPTERS, TAKE AWAY YOUR MUMS HUMAN RIGHTS SO THEY CAN BUY 20 SHOTGUNS FOR THEIR BANKER MATES" style stuff. I betcha 20p he did mean he thought UKIP was extremist in the sense that he believes they are fascists and not that they are extremists objectively. He already implied in another thread UKIP is potentially the next Hitler.
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    (Original post by lerjj)
    14) Kinda defeats your own point by starting with "only 2 female MEPs... have left the party". Why haven't the others left?
    (if you only have two female MEPs you can't lose more than two...)
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    (Original post by Quady)
    (if you only have two female MEPs you can't lose more than two...)
    Woops! Maybe I misread that a little
    • TSR Support Team
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    (Original post by lerjj)
    This is devil's advocate as I think their other policies are awful, but here goes: 8) If their previous manifesto has been abandoned, then where are you getting these policies from? Surely moving away from drivel and recognising it as such is only a good thing.

    9) Relevance? I have friends who are conservatives and friends who are green (and some who are UKIP). We know that UKIP are a right-wing party, this is not inherently bad.

    13) Not very excusable, but I didn't think UKIP MEPs voted much at all in the EU parliament, so unless I see better statistics, I shall assume this to be cherry-picking

    14) Kinda defeats your own point by starting with "only 2 female MEPs... have left the party". Why haven't the others left?

    17) Seeing as I have tried to argue this point before, I do agree with it. But its quite hard to find those figures as they haven't published any figures and have renounced their previous manifesto (which does do this I think).

    Also, I don't understand why supporting package holidays and making the circle line a circle are bad things. Weird policies perhaps, but not bad (I could be wrong, I don't really know why they are relevant is all).

    /d's advocate
    13) they don't turn up to vote, in general they refuse to vote, but when they turn up they vote to block good things like banning FGM.

    14) completely missed what they were saying - ukip had 2 female MEP's, both left.

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    (Original post by TATP)
    I gathered that from reading his other posts about UKIP previously. He continuously posts "AAAAH UKIP WANT TO TAX THE POOR INTO OBLIVION, PRIVATISE THE NHS TO PAY FOR 100 BANKERS HELICOPTERS, TAKE AWAY YOUR MUMS HUMAN RIGHTS SO THEY CAN BUY 20 SHOTGUNS FOR THEIR BANKER MATES" style stuff. I betcha 20p he did mean he thought UKIP was extremist in the sense that he believes they are fascists and not that they are extremists objectively. He already implied in another thread UKIP is potentially the next Hitler.
    Ask him, if so then I'll put 20p into your bank account. Enter your pin number here:____ and card number here: __________
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    (Original post by lerjj)
    Ask him, if so then I'll put 20p into your bank account. Enter your pin number here:____ and card number here: __________
    I don't need to ask him, he just implied to me in another thread that UKIP is all just a sham and that if they ever get into power, they'll immediately go full fascist, dump all their previously pledged policies and establish the 4th reich.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    13) they don't turn up to vote, in general they refuse to vote, but when they turn up they vote to block good things like banning FGM.

    14) completely missed what they were saying - ukip had 2 female MEP's, both left.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Fixed that. Do you have a list of things which they block? I'm still calling cherry-picking here until I see stats.

    Their MEPs are probably sexist just because they don't have many women at the moment. It doesn't mean that that's necessarily the party line, but that previously they had only a few MEPs who were all male and probably the same social class etc. it doesn't show that that's UKIP's main policy.

    Having said that, getting feminists to vote anti-UKIP would be a step in the right direction. If they're going to have sexist policies, they ought to lose the corresponding 50% of the vote.
 
 
 
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