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    https://twitter.com/This_Is_Israel/s...99643632103425

    That hill should be bulldozed down to rubble.
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    If this is not a death threat, then what is...?

    HuffingtonPost ME correspondent tweets: Israeli press office just emailed journos saying Hamas uses "journalists as human shields" and Israel isn't responsible for journo deaths.
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    Do you intelligent language?

    If you're trying to imply that repression of a cancerous ideology equates to the murder Israel is currently perpetrating, then suffice to say that it doesn't.

    Hitler should have been put down and European Jews would have gone on living in Europe, effectively the only home they knew; they did not have to be strategically stationed in the middle of the Arabs they so loathe; not only that but on land rightfully belonging to Arabs, purged of Arabs for their benefit.

    That was done for purely selfish reasons, and facilitated the rise of Zionism, which is the cause of so much disquiet today.
    I didn't explain in words the hypocrisy of your post because I was interested to see if you could work it out for yourself. I even tried to help you out by bolding the relevant parts. You didn't get it though, and I suspect that even if I told you you wouldn't understand. People like you cannot be reasoned with.
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    (Original post by getfunky!)
    What gives European Jews exclusive rights to Palestine? :lolwut:
    what gives arabic muslims the right to exclusive rights to Palestine? your question is stupid
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    (Original post by Ashnard)
    I didn't explain in words the hypocrisy of your post because I was interested to see if you could work it out for yourself. I even tried to help you out by bolding the relevant parts. You didn't get it though, and I suspect that even if I told you you wouldn't understand. People like you cannot be reasoned with.
    As evidently what I worked out isn't what you worked out, perhaps when you're done playing the Buddha you will put in legible writing whatever struck you as amiss in my words. Everything else you say is irrelevant - 'people like you' - I like that - as though you are even remotely acquainted with the person that I am.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    what gives arabic muslims the right to exclusive rights to Palestine? your question is stupid
    Oh, you're back, complete with your historical inaccuracies.
    'Arabic Muslims' never did have exclusive rights to Palestine, there were Arab Palestinians who were Christian, Muslim and Jewish, all of them lived together until colonial Britain came along with its imperialist agenda. Currently, Jews are reaping the privileges of 20th century expeditions in the Middle East. So you see, that is not a stupid question at all.
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    (Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
    As I said before:

    Plus, suppose if most Muslims have stood up against Israel's attacks on Palestine, what is wrong with that? Why wouldn't you expect them to stand up against it? Would you not stand up for someone innocent who shared your beliefs and was brutally killed ? The truth is that innocent Palestinians are killed and it cannot be justified whatsoever. Please I request you to address the real problem, the killing of innocent humans, you are also a human and I'm sure humanity is higher than anything even for you.

    You cannot generalise the whole nation. I stand against every unjust act committed against any human, regardless of their religion. The Delhi rape case, the murder of April Jones, the astonishing murder of a teacher in Leeds, the sexual harassment of young Muslim girls by so-called Imams, the unjustified murder of Lee Rigby, the 9/11 attacks, the Drone attacks that's killing innocent civilians in Pakistani region of Waziristan, the increasing ratio of Pakistani men raping young White girls and many more are very unjust acts that I'm against of because its concerned with humanity.

    For you to only take notice of such a minor issue and questioning why non-Arab Muslims only protest against Palestinian issue when there's a lot of other things to worry about is clearly delusional. Plus, to point out such issues and placing such importance on them is in itself a propaganda against non-Arab Muslims and pointless because the main matter here is the loss of human lives and not who supports it and who doesn't.
    even though you mention cases such as ratio of muslim men in grooming gangs of underage white girls, or murder of a teacher in leeds, i still would say, in the bigger picture they are not of the importance of say darfur or sielrra leone. they may of course be more relevant in terms of locality, but palestine is neither a mass-casualty story to compare with likes of darfur, or even ISIS in iraq, nor is it local- but to muslims, it is the most important news event in the entire planet. so why is that? the answer can only be manipulation of islamic propaganda
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    I am a Muslim & I hate bloodshed but it is totally unacceptable whatever the Israel is doing with innocent civilians of Gaza.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtoRrHRt3o&app=desktop

    So, how many Israeli students are working on TSR? :P
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    Oh, you're back, complete with your historical inaccuracies.
    'Arabic Muslims' never did have exclusive rights to Palestine, there were Arab Palestinians who were Christian, Muslim and Jewish, all of them lived together until colonial Britain came along with its imperialist agenda. Currently, Jews are reaping the privileges of 20th century expeditions in the Middle East. So you see, that is not a stupid question at all.
    if you dont mind, im replying to that persons questions, let him answer it and we can see where we get to.
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    (Original post by moali125)

    (I'll say it for the third time, both parties have done bad things in the past and doubtless will do so in the near-future - at least. My current issue with Israel is their contradictory acts. They bomb housing blocks, schools and hospitals, and then give no passage to the materials to rebuild that. That doesn't sound like self-defense to me. That sounds like crippling a people who simply need help, and not war.


    Well no offence, but people like you are very much 'NOW' people. You look at the news and see what's happening NOW, but have no appreciation for past events which have a bearing on the kind of things you protest about.

    I on the other hand, whilst not wanting to blow my own trumpet, have a deep knowledge of events which have taken place between the two warring parties.

    For example: you say Israel is trying to cripple them. Yet it's Israel that provides them with fuel, not Egypt. It's Israel that supplies them with the necessities.

    Do you know the reason why electricity blackouts happen so often? it's not because of Israel, it's because of the 'palestinians' in the West Bank.

    Israel sells them electricity which they in turn sell to Gaza. The PA have put such a high levy of tax on the fuel, that Hamas have refused to pay it, thereby creating electricity shortages

    Additionally, it's Israel that built a lot of stuff in Gaza. They renovated the Al-Shifa hospital in the 80's for example.

    Don't forget, under Egypt's control , Gaza was a malaria-infested area with a life expectancy in the 50's.

    After Israel took over, they added 25 years to their life expectancy which ended up being higher than neighbouring Egypt and even Turkey.

    Israel has an interest in seeing Gaza prosper. Indeed Netanyahu's ideology has always been based on economic prosperity for 'palestinians'. The idea being that if they're economically viable, they are less likely to turn to violence.

    An Israeli company is the biggest exporter of 'palestinian' flowers and veg from Gaza.


    But, you mustn't forget the struggle the civilians in Gaza endure. They want a normal life and it looks like Israel will never allow that.)
    To be fair, they did vote for an internationally proscribed terrorist group with the destruction of Israel being in its charter and central to its founding.

    When you do that, you know you're voting for conflict.

    (I absolutely agree. Israel's actions are catastrophic in terms of their marketing and PR of wanting to be a country of peaceful co-existence. Palestine appears the outright victim here. I agree with the direction of the media's frenzy to victimise the Israelis but it's certainly not as clear-cut as a lot of them make it out to be.


    It's not incumbent on Israel to sell its story all the time, it's incumbent on journalists to do their job.

    But sadly rocket attacks are not reported unless Israel responds. No one is interested. If an Israeli is killed or injured, it gets into the 'middle east' section of the BBC and that's that.

    No one knows or cares about the fact that kids in Israel's south regularly go for days being unable to go to school. They are stuck in bomb shelters.





    With a situation like this, what most irks me is the apparent difficulty to have a source of news without bias. Both Israel and Palestine's government's actions are in the grey area. Some stories to prove they are not what they seem, here and there, but mainly put on their motives. You would equally not hear of the hundreds of Palestinians captured months before. The media needs big booms and explosions to make that stuff headline.)


    Well, Israel has a free press and as I said in a previous comment - have more independent journalists than anywhere bar the US.

    In Israel, there are left wing papers and all sorts that document everything. Haaretz for example will report arrests and skirmishes daily.

    You cannot hide in Israeli society as it's the society itself, journalists, lawyers etc that keep the state in check. Just like with most democracies.

    (Yes, that was foolish of them. But, given the Egyptian government's anti-Islamist sentiments contrast that of Hamas, I would put the cause more to that. Oh, and the 30 year alliance Egypt and Israel have had.)
    I certainly wouldn't characterise it as an "alliance". The peace with Egypt is a very cold one and contact with them is based solely on mutual interests with regards to terrorists in the Sinai for example. There's no special relationship there, that's for sure.

    Hamas as usual made a grave blunder. They turned on Assad and lost his support, they turned on Egypt and lost their support.

    I'm afraid Israel can't be held responsible for that.

    (Israel has been fairly consistent with its strangle hold on any Palestinian territory - only handing Gaza over in 2005! Should we mention what I think is more clear sign of Israeli wrongdoing?


    Almost 10 years ago now. So I don't think it's suitable now to blame Israel for not leaving earlier. It's been nearly a decade.





    The settlements in walled-off Palestinian lands, where half a million Israeli citizens occupy space where family farms and villages once stood and have now been bulldozed. Again, both sides have done wrong. I'm not denying that. But, Palestine has a much better claim to land than Israel - in my opinion.


    You're now confusing the issue of Gaza and the West Bank. There are no walls in Gaza and Israel has no presence there whatsoever. They have withdrawn all settlers and soldiers.

    Just as an aside, the "walled-off" comment you made is slightly disingenuous. This isn't your fault, again it's the media which only shows you the 'wall' section.

    The barrier is actually 93% a fence. Between 5-7% is a 'wall'. The reason for this was because 'palestinain' snipers used to use their higher ground to snipe at Israel motorists driving opposite.


    So, why stuff Jews - from European ascent - into this place with a thousand year old delicate balance? It seems almost colonial to me, except Palestinians have deteriorated rather than reap the 'empire's' benefits. Yes, I know many Jews are of more local descent, but much of them migrated due to the resentment of Arabic states against the occupation of Palestine.)


    No one "stuffed" Jews there.

    Jews have had a presence in land of Israel since before 'Arabs' were even known as a people, since before the Arabic language (obviously) and before Islam.

    As an Iranian, I'm sure you'll appreciate ancient cultures - and there are few in the region as ancient as the Jewish people who are indigenous to the land of Israel.

    The fact that some Jews from Europe emigrated to the land of Israel is neither here nor there. After all, 'palestinians' didn't sprout from the ground. They are Arabs from Arabia who emigrated and conquered lands. They came in numbers into 'palestine' after the Ottoman takeover. As did the Jews from Europe. In fact it was after the Ottomans invited the Jews to emigrate to 'palestine', that Arabs followed as the economy improved and they came for labour.

    One of the most common family names amongst 'palestinians' is Al-Masri. That translates to "the Egyptian" - so you can see how they too are immigrants to the land.

    'palestine' as a region was sparsely populated for a very long time.


    --

    As an Iranian, I think your government should take a lot of the blame for inflaming tensions between Israel and 'palestinians'. It was Islamic Jihad which first started to fire rockets in this recent flare-up, and as I'm sure you're aware, they're an Iranian proxy.


    I've not answered all your questions in the correct order, but hope I got them all covered.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The simplest solution would be for a third party to get involved and force them all to get along, but that would never happen, not least because the necessary measures that would have to come with it (such as an amount of indiscriminate killing) would be internationally condemned. I suppose, on the flip side it could cause them to settle their differences to fight a common foe. Either way, it's impractical.

    I think, in some respects, Christianity is to blame in all this (and this isn't just some antotheistic rant) in that it hardly helped the tribal issues when you're being further split. By extension the eastern roman empire is to blame also. You also have to consider the question "had Christianity never gained a following, would Islam exist today, and if so how would be ideology be different? " because I can't believe that there is no influence from Christianity.

    It's also worth noting that your argument against islamists can be applied to religion in general. Religion drives people and communities apart, the are plenty of examples, Palestine and Ireland being two examples. Religion (or lack of, which imo is preferable) should bring people together, not drive them apart. However religion is intrinsically flawed and cannot truly allow union of all man (unless you manage to reduce it to a small enough sample).

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    my argument is a logical one and so in theory can be applied to most comparable howver the issue of islamic doctrine and subsequent land grabbing is the most pertinent one. what do all islamic groups in kashmir, chechnya, uhigur china, nigeria etc etc etc all say? that they want land to come under islamic control. same mindset of islam in the 8th century- except we are in 21st century. yes palestinians may have some claim to territory there ( borders unclear) but the islamic motive is a defunct one, and actually has hindered any progress in this area. what are Isis doing in iraq right now? marching armies in and trying to establish an islamic caliphate- what do you think happend there in 8th century? so yes, if you approach the issue form an islamic viewpoint, you are frankly stupid, in the same way if you did from some evangelical or zionist appoach) But in the islamic world it is the islamists that have all the control - who is it that can start a war at a moments notice , or chant some slogans from the quran and have a thousand human sacrifices on the doorstep to follow their bidding? it is the islamists, the sheikihs, emirs, extreme islamic leaders . they control all the poltic issues involving muslims, including palestine. so yes, in the case of palestine, hamas etc we are still dealing with backward mentalities and propaganda - which cannot be solved by simply sitting round tables.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    my argument is a logical one and so in theory can be applied to most comparable howver the issue of islamic doctrine and subsequent land grabbing is the most pertinent one. what do all islamic groups in kashmir, chechnya, uhigur china, nigeria etc etc etc all say? that they want land to come under islamic control. same mindset of islam in the 8th century- except we are in 21st century. yes palestinians may have some claim to territory there ( borders unclear) but the islamic motive is a defunct one, and actually has hindered any progress in this area. what are Isis doing in iraq right now? marching armies in and trying to establish an islamic caliphate- what do you think happend there in 8th century? so yes, if you approach the issue form an islamic viewpoint, you are frankly stupid, in the same way if you did from some evangelical or zionist appoach) But in the islamic world it is the islamists that have all the control - who is it that can start a war at a moments notice , or chant some slogans from the quran and have a thousand human sacrifices on the doorstep to follow their bidding? it is the islamists, the sheikihs, emirs, extreme islamic leaders . they control all the poltic issues involving muslims, including palestine. so yes, in the case of palestine, hamas etc we are still dealing with backward mentalities and propaganda - which cannot be solved by simply sitting round tables.
    How can you tell the faith of such militants' groups? For example, I can convert to Judaism and start killing Christians. If some Israeli funded so called "Islamic" militants are killing people then it doesn't make any sense that you know their true faith & label them as Muslim.

    You need to understand that a terrorist doesn't have any religion. For example, Hitler was Christian and he killed thousands of Jews so it doesn't mean the Christians are evil.
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    As evidently what I worked out isn't what you worked out, perhaps when you're done playing the Buddha you will put in legible writing whatever struck you as amiss in my words. Everything else you say is irrelevant - 'people like you' - I like that - as though you are even remotely acquainted with the person that I am.
    The blood libel refers to the accusation during mediaeval times that Jews consumed the blood of Christian children during their religious rituals, such as passover. The myth of the blood libel was one of the prime historical motivators of anti-semitism in Europe, which in turn was the main driving force for the Zionist movement and the creation of State of Israel thereafter. Most rational people don't believe in the blood libel in its literal form today, but sadly the association between Jews and blood has seeped into the subconscious of many people, which manifests itself when they describe the military offensives of Israel with phrases like "blood-letting" and "bloodthirsty", usually without realising.

    Do you see now the irony of it all?
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    (Original post by universal_set)
    How can you tell the faith of such militants' groups? For example, I can convert to Judaism and start killing Christians. If some Israeli funded so called "Islamic" militants are killing people then it doesn't make any sense that you know their true faith & label them as Muslim.

    You need to understand that a terrorist doesn't have any religion. For example, Hitler was Christian and he killed thousands of Jews so it doesn't mean the Christians are evil.
    if you read my post youd ahve seen i referred to specific islamic terorist groups like for example al shabab, isis, lashkar e taiba etc , who are very much islamic - which kind of gives their faith away :rolleyes:. anyway the point was the problems in palestine are not unique to that region, and places where there are groups following islamic agendas exhibit the same problem. the reality of palestine is that those groups face a much less tolerant opponent in the israelis
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    if you read my post youd ahve seen i referred to specific islamic terorist groups like for example al shabab, isis, lashkar e taiba etc , who are very much islamic - which kind of gives their faith away :rolleyes:. anyway the point was the problems in palestine are not unique to that region, and places where there are groups following islamic agendas exhibit the same problem. the reality of palestine is that those groups face a much less tolerant opponent in the israelis

    Sorry but you are not making any sense. I am a Muslim & I know my religion very well than those non-Muslims who always portray it as a violent religion which is untrue.
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    (Original post by universal_set)
    Sorry but you are not making any sense. I am a Muslim & I know my religion very well than those non-Muslims who always portray it as a violent religion which is untrue.
    sorry but thats rubbish, im not getting into a theological discussion with you ( if you want to there are plenty of threads here we can) many faiths justify use of violence ( primarily because in past societies using violence was the norm) and islam is no exception. you are going to try and suggest that no hamas member is actual a muslim becaase they are violent? perhaps you need to examine islamic history a little - islam arrived in 'palestine' by the sword
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    sorry but thats rubbish, im not getting into a theological discussion with you ( if you want to there are plenty of threads here we can) many faiths justify use of violence ( primarily because in past societies using violence was the norm) and islam is no exception. you are going to try and suggest that no hamas member is actual a muslim becaase they are violent? perhaps you need to examine islamic history a little - islam arrived in 'palestine' by the sword

    Watch your language & then tell me who is violent. LOL No need to get hyper.

    I am not pointing Hamas or any other particular group. I just want a logical reason that why are you labelling militants' groups as Islamic?

    And BTW, Israel is not a Jewish land before world war II it was owned by the Muslims & Jews were refugees. So Israeli land is just Jewish occupied area. For example, if one million approx. Muslims of UK want to make east London or Bradford as a separate country then it is unjustified & rubbish.


    Edited note: BTW, if Hamas or any Muslim will kill innocent civilians then I will hate them so I will advise them to kill Israeli soldiers because it's a war started by Israel for no logical reasons.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    what gives arabic muslims the right to exclusive rights to Palestine? your question is stupid

    :facepalm: It is Arab* Muslims, and they don't claim to have exclusive rights but they have proven to live peacefully before their land was stolen by European Jews, history shows that Jews were living alongside Arabs before the formation of Israel.

    The biggest issue is stolen land and settlements, how do you justify settlements when you have such a pro-Israeli view?
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    (Original post by Ashnard)
    The blood libel refers to the accusation during mediaeval times that Jews consumed the blood of Christian children during their religious rituals, such as passover. The myth of the blood libel was one of the prime historical motivators of anti-semitism in Europe, which in turn was the main driving force for the Zionist movement and the creation of State of Israel thereafter. Most rational people don't believe in the blood libel in its literal form today, but sadly the association between Jews and blood has seeped into the subconscious of many people, which manifests itself when they describe the military offensives of Israel with phrases like "blood-letting" and "bloodthirsty", usually without realising.

    Do you see now the irony of it all?
    Actually, I see an entirely separate irony that you apparently do not.

    You do not seem to be aware that Zionism =/= Judaism.

    I am aware of 'blood libel', and also of 'metzitzah' which coincides closely with it.

    I am also aware of condemnation of Zionism increasingly being mistaken, even deliberately at times, for condemnation of Judaism, and anti-Semitism wrongly cited.

    It beggars belief that you genuinely entertain the idea that I was appealing to that notion when I referred to the current bloodbath Israel is perpetrating in Gaza, and also that you honestly think that that notion has 'seeped into the subconscious of people'. It can only be a singularly deluded person who would give that latter idea any semblance of serious consideration.
    I am not fazed by your diabolical and absurd claim that I have appealed an age-old anti-Semitic notion insidiously or unconsciously. Israel is committing bloody atrocities in Gaza, and I will not downplay that by being careful not to refer to the blood that is being shed daily simply to appease any whoever who happens to see something in it that rests on illogical and unreasonable assumptions.
 
 
 
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