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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    :indiff:

    that was a typing error

    i mean jewish people
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    (Original post by Kaedra)
    These ideas would probably have to be pushed through by Muslims though to be respected, in the same way that many Christians probably wouldn't appreciate religious advice from Muslims. I think it's an internal problem which they will probably have to fix for themselves.
    Progressive islam can be easily promoted by individuals speaking to individuals. Yes, at the group level, it should be muslims making speeches and leading movements, but there's nothing to stop simple conversation between peaceful muslims and non muslims where progressive values can be highlighted according to Islamic texts themselves.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Islamists will react, there is no doubt and such ideas will not go down well among many Muslims. However, the very same literature which Islamists use to justify their beliefs and intolerances can also be used to defend the legitimacy of progressive Islam. For example this Sahih Hadith from Al-Bukhari:

    Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."

    One can be a progressive Muslim and do all of the above. Whilst progressive Muslims are small in numbers, they do exist and they are a present and growing demographic around the world. I think it is a matter of challenging the current majority held views and trying to show that there are other alternative interpretations which do propose some interesting answers to the current problems facing Islam. Such figures as Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, Mahmoud Mohammed Taha, Siti Musdah Mulia, Scott Siraj al-Haqq Kugle and many others also have been at the forefront in different countries around the world presenting unique and progressive interpretations of Islam. I think it is just a matter of trying to disseminate these ideas.
    This 'progressive Islam' you talk about is not as scarce as you may think... The 'Sufi' sect of islam which is made up of spiritualism and annihilating egos is widely practiced in the UK, US, Egypt, India, Pakistan. Pretty much every major city has thousands of followers.
    From what I have read it seems that the Wahabi and Salafi movements are the ones to watch out for. The Salafi movement is somewhat new and creates their own interpretations rather than following interpretations from the imams that lived closer to the time of the prophet. This sect is the bedrock of ISIS, Al Shabab, etc
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    OK so basically the easiest way to doing it is to make Britain a muslim country?

    - no more leftists
    - no more feminism
    - no more liberalism
    - high birth rate
    - right wing takeover of educational institutions and media
    Traditionalism prioritised the raising of healthy and successful children so that the civilisation was stable in the long term.

    -Leftism prioritises reckless welfare spending which bankrupts the country.
    -Feminism prioritises letting women act like men and forego their responsibility to be good mothers and wives. This destroys the population sustainability of the country.
    -Liberalism prioritises freedom over responsibility. This leads to leftism, feminism, and other destructive social movements. The long term result of every liberal movement has been social democracy, socialism and corruption. The best example is the USA.
    -Muslim countries (like Iran and SA) have a replacement level birth rate. The West does not. Most Muslim countries are as industrialised today as the West was before the death of traditional culture. Before then, the West did have a replacement level birth rate and sustainable economic system.
    -Currently these institutions have been taken over by leftists, who are vastly at odds with popular sentiment.

    Simply put, a country wouldn't need immigrants, with all the problems they may or may not bring, if it had birthed and raised its own children well. Where Putin is trying to take Russia is a good model for the West.
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    You just cannot blame Islam as a whole (as some users seem to be doing :rolleyes: ) this incident and like many others, is clearly a misuse of religion. Islam does not justify or encourage mass-murder. This is clearly all down to radicalism, blame that!
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    (Original post by 41b)
    Traditionalism prioritised the raising of healthy and successful children so that the civilisation was stable in the long term.

    -Leftism prioritises reckless welfare spending which bankrupts the country.
    -Feminism prioritises letting women act like men and forego their responsibility to be good mothers and wives. This destroys the population sustainability of the country.
    -Liberalism prioritises freedom over responsibility. This leads to leftism, feminism, and other destructive social movements. The long term result of every liberal movement has been social democracy, socialism and corruption. The best example is the USA.
    -Muslim countries (like Iran and SA) have a replacement level birth rate. The West does not. Most Muslim countries are as industrialised today as the West was before the death of traditional culture. Before then, the West did have a replacement level birth rate and sustainable economic system.
    -Currently these institutions have been taken over by leftists, who are vastly at odds with popular sentiment.

    Simply put, a country wouldn't need immigrants, with all the problems they may or may not bring, if it had birthed and raised its own children well. Where Putin is trying to take Russia is a good model for the West.
    Did you quote the wrong person?

    I was pointing out the mere fact that, under islam, muslim countries achieve most of the goals you want Britain to achieve:
    - no feminism
    - no liberalism
    - ring wingers taking over politics, education, and the media
    - high birth rate

    If you respond with irrelevant stuff again I will not respond.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    Even Muslims, or at least the sensible ones, will agree that, after these attacks, for now, the best thing to do is to treat refugees as potential terrorists.
    Which would be a radical change in the basis of the western legal system, 'innocent before proven guilty'.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    Traditionalism prioritised the raising of healthy and successful children so that the civilisation was stable in the long term.

    -Leftism prioritises reckless welfare spending which bankrupts the country.
    -Feminism prioritises letting women act like men and forego their responsibility to be good mothers and wives. This destroys the population sustainability of the country.
    -Liberalism prioritises freedom over responsibility. This leads to leftism, feminism, and other destructive social movements. The long term result of every liberal movement has been social democracy, socialism and corruption. The best example is the USA.
    -Muslim countries (like Iran and SA) have a replacement level birth rate. The West does not. Most Muslim countries are as industrialised today as the West was before the death of traditional culture. Before then, the West did have a replacement level birth rate and sustainable economic system.
    -Currently these institutions have been taken over by leftists, who are vastly at odds with popular sentiment.

    Simply put, a country wouldn't need immigrants, with all the problems they may or may not bring, if it had birthed and raised its own children well. Where Putin is trying to take Russia is a good model for the West.
    Oh dear...:facepalm:
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    (Original post by Ahmed766)
    No one hates radical Muslims more than Muslims.
    (Original post by Hasan_Ahmed)
    Progressive islam can be easily promoted by individuals speaking to individuals. Yes, at the group level, it should be muslims making speeches and leading movements, but there's nothing to stop simple conversation between peaceful muslims and non muslims where progressive values can be highlighted according to Islamic texts themselves.
    There is no progressive Muslim in prison (where radicalisation happens).
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    (Original post by 41b)
    Mahatma Gandhi was shot to death. All his worthless idealism did not save him. Screw Gandhi. His advice is for wimps.
    And Hitler was forced to shoot himself.

    Looks like using the iron fist doesn't work either.

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    (Original post by 41b)
    Traditionalism prioritised the raising of healthy and successful children so that the civilisation was stable in the long term.

    -Leftism prioritises reckless welfare spending which bankrupts the country.
    -Feminism prioritises letting women act like men and forego their responsibility to be good mothers and wives. This destroys the population sustainability of the country.
    -Liberalism prioritises freedom over responsibility. This leads to leftism, feminism, and other destructive social movements. The long term result of every liberal movement has been social democracy, socialism and corruption. The best example is the USA.
    -Muslim countries (like Iran and SA) have a replacement level birth rate. The West does not. Most Muslim countries are as industrialised today as the West was before the death of traditional culture. Before then, the West did have a replacement level birth rate and sustainable economic system.
    -Currently these institutions have been taken over by leftists, who are vastly at odds with popular sentiment.

    Simply put, a country wouldn't need immigrants, with all the problems they may or may not bring, if it had birthed and raised its own children well. Where Putin is trying to take Russia is a good model for the West.
    I highlighted the bits that were either wrong, incredibly exaggerated, ignorant or just statements that are downright facepalm worthy. :facepalm:
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    (Original post by 41b)
    Simply put, a country wouldn't need immigrants, with all the problems they may or may not bring, if it had birthed and raised its own children well. Where Putin is trying to take Russia is a good model for the West.
    "Putin a good model". :rolleyes:
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    Section Leader
    According to this the list of casualties is as follows:
    http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-diver...15-5273837.php


    Bataclan: at least 100 dead, seven people in a critical condition, four others injured

    Rue Charonne: 19 dead, 13 people in a critical condition, 10 others injured

    Rue Bichat: 14 dead, 10 in a critical condition, 10 others injured

    Avenue de la Republique: Four dead, 11 in a critical condition, 10 others injured

    Stade de France: four dead, 11 in a critical condition, 39 others injured

    Rue Beaumarchais: three people in a critical condition, four others injuries
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    modern leftist = YOU GUYS ARE RACIST AND OPPRESSIVE HOW DARE YOU SAY MUSLIMS KILLED PEOPLE THEY ARE THE REAL VICTIMS HERE
    On a student forum where most users are 'modern leftists', exactly 0 person has said exactly that.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    And Hitler was forced to shoot himself.

    Looks like using the iron fist doesn't work either.
    Can you stop with the gifs in this thread?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    "Putin a good model". :rolleyes:
    Mother Russia ha birth rate lower than that of the United States's, the Netherlands's, Denmark's, Australia's, UK's, France's, New Zealand's, Iceland's, Sweden's and countless other countries in the west.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    There is no progressive Muslim in prison (where radicalisation happens).
    Tell that to the Taliban who were radicalised in those madrassas run by a pakistani organisation called jamiat ulema e islam. :/ Besides, if radicalisation in the west takes place in prison, then that leaves a lot of places for countering it.
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    (Original post by Danz123)
    I highlighted the bits that were either wrong, incredibly exaggerated, ignorant or just statements that are downright facepalm worthy. :facepalm:
    I would hope that a basic reading of history would prove informative.

    Regardless, the point stands. It's important to note that most other traditional, rich Muslim countries have accepted almost no refugees in light of the potentiality of terrorism. It seems their logical sense of self preservation takes precedence over their emotion.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    I would hope that a basic reading of history would prove informative.

    Regardless, the point stands. It's important to note that most other traditional, rich Muslim countries have accepted almost no refugees in light of the potentiality of terrorism. It seems their logical sense of self preservation takes precedence over their emotion.
    So indeed you want the UK to become a muslim country.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    I would hope that a basic reading of history would prove informative.

    Regardless, the point stands. It's important to note that most other traditional, rich Muslim countries have accepted almost no refugees in light of the potentiality of terrorism. It seems their logical sense of self preservation takes precedence over their emotion.
    I would hope so too, since I have yet to see you demonstrate even a basic grasp of any of the concepts you speak of, in addition to being factually incorrect.

    The point does not stand. You made SEVERAL invalid points, in fact your entire post was invalid, and when you were just stating opinion, it was based on those same invalid and confused points you made earlier.

    Maybe the richer gulf countries, yes, but what has that got to do with anything? Other Muslim countries have accepted refugees, Turkey has accepted over 2 million -- one meets them even on the streets of Istanbul -- while Lebanon, with over 1 million refugees (some say 2 million) has gone far beyond the carrying capacity of its 4 million citizens. Jordan, Iraq, and even Egypt had all accepted more than Germany, which, if it were to actually receive 800,000 refugees, would still only be the third highest recipient.
 
 
 
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