D&D Religion's "Ask About Sikhism" Thread Watch

nosaer
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#701
Report 7 years ago
#701
(Original post by Charzhino)
Its not clear if it was meant for reformation or restoration. Nanak certianly didnt convert anyone to Sikhism, his main teaching was essentially for a Hindu to be a good Hindu and vice versa for Muslims. What constituted as a good [insert religion] was that they followed what was taught in scripture, not what society had told them and multiple aimless rituals. This is where opinions depart, I believe Guru Nanak came to restore the ancient faiths rather than to create a new one.
What kind of acknowledgement does Sikhism have of Islam and Hinduism? Similar to those that Islam has of its Abrahamic co-religions?
0
reply
Charzhino
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#702
Report 7 years ago
#702
(Original post by nosaer)
What kind of acknowledgement does Sikhism have of Islam and Hinduism? Similar to those that Islam has of its Abrahamic co-religions?
Alot. The names Allah, the Prophet, Vishnu, Krishna, Indra, Raama, etc are pronounced multiple times throught the Granth Saheb. Along with stories, legends and creation myths from these respective religions.
0
reply
nosaer
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#703
Report 7 years ago
#703
(Original post by Charzhino)
Alot. The names Allah, the Prophet, Vishnu, Krishna, Indra, Raama, etc are pronounced multiple times throught the Granth Saheb. Along with stories, legends and creation myths from these respective religions.
Where can you read up on this online?
0
reply
Einheri
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#704
Report 7 years ago
#704
(Original post by USingh)
No hair must be cut.
Are women allowed to shave? Most South Asian women are disgustingly hairy - I can't see how this would be anything be deeply unpleasant.
2
reply
Charzhino
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#705
Report 7 years ago
#705
(Original post by nosaer)
Where can you read up on this online?
Sikhi wiki is a good quick guide. Here is a link with Krishna used as the search term which brings its relevance in Sikhism with scriptural quotes.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Krishna

If you want to read passages in the Granth Sahib then this is the link to the entire online english translation:

http://www.sikhs.org/english/eg_index.htm
0
reply
Pn94
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#706
Report 7 years ago
#706
(Original post by Charzhino)
Alot. The names Allah, the Prophet, Vishnu, Krishna, Indra, Raama, etc are pronounced multiple times throught the Granth Saheb. Along with stories, legends and creation myths from these respective religions.
Although the religion itself is completely different to Islam and Hinduism - not a mere branch-off as some suggest.
0
reply
P.Kaur
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#707
Report 7 years ago
#707
(Original post by Charzhino)
Most of that paragraph you have made up yourself. Since when did lust mean no pleasure. Lust is a far more extreme vice than what you have described which is apparently equal to 2 loving people enjoying something natural. And nowhere in the Granth is homosexuality mentioned so its best to avoid putting your own spin on it and passing it off as scriptural doctrine.
What on earth are you talking about? Sexual pleasure involves lust, that's pretty obvious. You may see sex as something natural but the fact is whether you agree with what I've said or not, Sikhi doesn't permit sex for pleasure- Gurbani makes that pretty clear! And I also mentioned a few times that Guru Granth Sahib Ji doesn't mention homosexuality. Please don't get so defensive just because Sikhi doesn't fit in with your own views.
0
reply
Charzhino
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#708
Report 7 years ago
#708
(Original post by P.Kaur)
What on earth are you talking about? Sexual pleasure involves lust, that's pretty obvious. You may see sex as something natural but the fact is whether you agree with what I've said or not, Sikhi doesn't permit sex for pleasure- Gurbani makes that pretty clear! And I also mentioned a few times that Guru Granth Sahib Ji doesn't mention homosexuality. Please don't get so defensive just because Sikhi doesn't fit in with your own views.
No it doesn't.
1
reply
Hylean
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#709
Report 7 years ago
#709
Guys, just to make it clear, this thread is for questions, not debates. If you want to debate, take it to the Sikh Soc.
0
reply
P.Kaur
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#710
Report 7 years ago
#710
(Original post by Charzhino)
No it doesn't.
kaam krodhh lobh mohu abhimaan bikhai ras ein sa(n)gath thae thoo rahu rae ||
Sexual desire, anger, greed, attachment, egotism and corrupt pleasures - stay away from these.

roop ra(n)g suga(n)dhh bhog thiaag chalae maaeiaa shhalae kanik kaaminee ||1|| rehaao ||
You must abandon your beauty, pleasures, fragrances and enjoyments; beguiled by gold and sexual desire, you must still leave Maya behind. ||1||Pause||

nimakh kaam suaadh kaaran kott dhinas dhukh paavehi ||
For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days.

kaam krodhh ar lobh moh eih ei(n)dhree ras lapattaadhhae ||
Your senses are beguiled by sensual pleasures of sex, by anger, greed and emotional attachment.

ourajh rehiou ei(n)dhree ras praeriou bikhai t(h)agouree khaavath hae ||1||
You are entangled in the lures of sexual pleasures, and you are eating poisonous drugs. ||1||

avar marath maaeiaa man tholae tho bhag mukh janam vigoeiaa ||3||
When others die, you measure your own wealth in your mind; you waste your life in the pleasures of the mouth and sexual organs. ||3||

suaadh lubhath ei(n)dhree ras praeriou madh ras laith bikaariou rae ||
Those who are deluded by sensual pleasures, who are tempted by sexual delights and enjoy wine are corrupt

man bilaas bahu ra(n)g ghanaa dhrisatt bhool khuseeaa ||
With the mind caught up in playful pleasures, involved in all sorts of amusements and sights that stagger the eyes, people are led astray

Oh, really? :rolleyes:
0
reply
SaintSoldier
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#711
Report 7 years ago
#711
Sorry I've been away guys! It's clear that there's a lot of misinformation about Sikhism on here. Hopefuly I, with Maharaj's kirpa, can rectify any damage caused.

(Original post by okapobcfc08)
Lol, Singh dont take this the wrong way but aren't you day dreaming a bit? Im surprised because i thought for a man of your knowledge, you wouldnt come out with such unrealistic and frankly in my opinion incorrect stuff on Khalistan and Sikhs in India?
Explain?

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Well stricktly speajing carrying a small knife, or practicing some ancient indian martial art isnt going to prepare any sikh for WW3.

My question would be -is this relevant to the religion or simpy ritual ? Because if WW3 kicked off tommorrow, use of an M14A1, fighter pilot training or armoured military vehicle licence would be far more useful skills.
If you got attacked in the street, I think you'd be pretty thankful that you had a blade on you.

Oh really? That's why most large armies in the world issue their soldiers with knifes :rolleyes: They are useful there's no denying that.

And why do most law courts have a sword in their emblem? Because it represents justice.

In close quarter combat, a knife is the best weapon you can have. Swords were mandatory equipment during both world wars, even though guns were in major usage.

Sikhs were known to use swords to fight in WW2, once their ammunition had run out. The German soldiers were shocked at this act of bravery.

It is as relevent as ever. If it wasn't relevant, then the British Army would stop issuing knives to its soldiers.

If you read my post, then you will see that I was encouraging Sikhs to look into modern forms of defence, hence the latter part of your post is answered.


(Original post by nosaer)
You've got to be kidding me right? Tough call.
It's not quite as simple as that.

P.Kaur is right in saying that we should refrain from Kaam (lust). However, Sikhs are encouraged to live a family life. We are forbidden to become Sanyassees (renunciates) :

"Immersed in family life, the Lord's humble servant ever remains detached; he reflects upon the essence of spiritual wisdom"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 599)

"Instead of wearing these beggar's robes, it is better to be a householder, and give to others"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 587)

"The unenlightened people do not understand themselves - why have they become renunciates?"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 419)
All of the Gurus had families and had children, hence we should also do the same.

Sikhism is not one of those religions that bans everything that is fun. Where in Gurbani (the Guru's word) does it say we cannot have fun? Nowhere.

Having sex within the fold of marriage is not prohibited, and is actually encouraged. Guru Gobind Singh stated that sin is incurred when sex is not performed within your marriage. Sex is a natural part of life, so Sikhs should not remain celibate.

However, you must not get carried away. Lust is one of the Panj Chor (5 theives) that robs you of your spirituality.

In short, sex is completely accepted in Sikhism, as long as it is with your husband/wife only. But just don't go over the top, that's all.

(Original post by AkaJetson)
If someone is born gay, are they expected to not commit homosexual acts for all their life?
You must remain disciplined, so yes.

How old is the Earth according to Sikhism?
Gurbani states that no human knows how old the world is, and it states that the Earth is onlder than he Muslims and Hindus think it is. Only the Creator kows the exact age.

Fundamentally, it's irrelevant to our daily lives. Whenever the Earth was formed, it has little effect on our lives now. We should focus on what we are dojng now, rather than endlessly contemplating what as come to pass. Revealing the age of the Earth gives no spiritual benefit to mankind, hence it was not included in the Guru Granth Sahib.

Do Sikhs believe God sent any of those Abrahamic prophets?
It's irrelevant. The Gurus came with the ultimate Truth, with supreceded all messages before them.

We believe that the prophets of other religions had some of the Truth, but did not have the whole truth.

"Say not that the Vedas and Muslim books are false. False is he, who reflects not on them." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1350)

We believe that the Abrahamic prophets may have been holy men (ie they thought a lot about life and God, like philosphers), and hence began to preach their understanding of the world around them. They may have got some bits wrong, and their message may have been corrupted later, hence they only have some of the truth.

Guru Nanak was sent to reveal the full Truth, hence we are not directed to follow the message of people like Jesus.

You mentioned Sikhs believe in evolution. Can you explain how God created the Earth and its creatures originally?
Guru Granth Sahib contains a very detailed account as to how the universe was created:

"(Before the creation of the world) for endless eons, there was only utter darkness. There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam. There was no day or night, no moon or sun; Vaheguru sat in primal, (like) in profound undisturbed meditation. ||1||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1035)

“From the True Lord came the air (gases), and from the air came water. From water, He created life in the air, on land, and in the sea; in each and every heart He has infused His Light. The Immaculate Lord does not become polluted. Attuned to the Shabad, honor is obtained. ||3||”
(Guru Granth sahib, Ang 19)

"There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His creation. As He commands, so they exist. He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices. Nanak says, it is really hard to describe"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 8)

"There are billions of regions and planets. There are billions of moons, suns and stars"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 275)

"Many millions are the fields of creation and galaxies. Many millions are the skies and solar systems. Many millions are divine incarnations. He has unfolded Himself in so many ways. He has expanded His expansion of creation many times. Forever and ever, He is the One, the One Universal Creator. Many millions are created in various forms. From God they emanate, and into God they merge once again. His limits are not known to anyone. O Nanak, God exists by Himself."
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 276)

“Vaheguru alone is fearless, who has no destiny written on His head. God Himself is unseen; He reveals Himself through His wondrous creative power. He Himself is unattached, unborn and self-existent. O Nanak, through the Guru’s Teachings, He is found. ||12||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1042)

“No one knows Your state and extent. You alone created the expanse of the Universe.”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1220)

“O Nanak, the Creator alone knows the workings of His creation. ||2||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 275)

There are many more quotes on cosmology and the creation, but this is sufficient for now. As you can see, our beliefs ae fully concordant with modern science.

We are also told the the world is not permanent:

“Neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the planets, nor the seven continents, nor the oceans, nor food, nor the wind-nothing is permanent. You alone, Lord, You alone. ||4||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 144)

“Night and day, and the stars in the sky shall vanish. The sun and the moon shall vanish. The mountains, the earth, the water and the air shall pass away.”

(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1204)

We do not believe in Adam and Eve:
http://www.sikhanswers.com/gurmat-is...anth-sahib-ji/

And instead we believe in evolution:
"Creation came into being with a single command of God; from it evolved millions of branches of different types"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 3)

What do you think of the Sikhs in the EDL?
Uneducated. They hae no idea of what Sikhism teaches, or what it means to be a Sikh. Sikhism is strongly against racism.

"Recognise the whole human race as one." - Guru Gobind Singh

(Original post by nosaer)
Anyway, why does Sikhism appear to have similarities and influences from other religions, namely Islam and Hinduism. Is there a link here?
It has similarities, but that does not mean that it is derived from them.

All religions have similarities.

(Original post by Charzhino)
Most of that paragraph you have made up yourself. Since when did lust mean no pleasure. Lust is a far more extreme vice than what you have described which is apparently equal to 2 loving people enjoying something natural. And nowhere in the Granth is homosexuality mentioned so its best to avoid putting your own spin on it and passing it off as scriptural doctrine.
No, you're making most of it up yourself.

The official Akal Takht position on homosexuality is that Sikhs are not allowed to practice it.

Who are we to dispute the Akal Takht?

(Original post by Charzhino)
It doesnt have too much in common to Islam. It has strong roots to Hinduism however because Guru Nanak was born in a surrounding of Hindu populations. That is the main reason why you will find so many Hindu diety references in the Holy Book. Guru Nanak wanted to restore the purity of worship to the One source of all natural manifestation.
Just because Guru Nanak was born a Hindu, doesn't make Sikhism a sect of Hinduism. That's like saying that Muhammad was a pagan :rolleyes:

Gurbani sets you straight on this point:
"I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1136)

As for the refernce to Hindu "deities," here is your answer: (taken from searchsikhism.com)
When Guru Sahib started preaching Gurmat, there were two major religions in the country, Hinduism and Islam. Guru Sahib rejected both and revealed a new path and preached it in a language commonly understood by the masses. To make it easier for the people to understand the divine message, Guru Sahib used many of the commonly known words in His preaching. For example, He used words like Allah, Khudah, Raam, Gobind, Kareem, Khalak, Vasudev, Hari etc. to relate to one almighty God. Use of such words in no way is advocating Hinduism or Islam. Guru Sahib preached that there is only one God who has many different names and can be remembered by different people with different names.

The Gurus are in no way encouraging polytheism by doing this.

(Original post by nosaer)
Sounds like a similar story to the origin of Islam. Not that that's the similarity I've seen, more along the lines of prohibiting alcohol,
That's common sense, you don't need a divine revelation to see that alcohol is bad for you.

oneness of God
Just because Islam came before Sikhism, does not mean that it is copied from Islam. There are clearly many differences.

rules for the consumption of meat,
Sikhs cannot eat meat unless the circumstances are dire, unlike Muslims.

keeping of the beard.
Muslims keep the beard but shave the moustache, in order to distinguish themselves from the Pagans.

Sikhs keep both the beard and the moustache because we are living in accordance with God's will by maintaining a complete appearance.

As you can see, completely different.

These are just some I've come across when reading about Sikhism and they strike me as Sikhism being a product of its time in a way.
“There is only one true Faith. The Guru's way is complete and perfect through the ages.”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1188)

Was there any divine impetus for this 'reformation'?
“Vaheguru gave me His Hukam (Order) to sing His Praises day and night. Vaheguru, my Lord and Master summoned me, His minstrel, to the True Mansion of His Presence. (Vaheguru,) the Image of True Praise and Glory, gave me the Siropaao, robe of honour. The spiritual-life giving Name, Amrit Naam, the True Name, which gives eternal spiritual life, has become my food [sustenance].”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 150)

"O Lalo! As the Lord’s word comes to me so I deliver it."
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 722)

"I myself know not what to say; all I speak is what the Lord commands."
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 763).

(Original post by Charzhino)
Its not clear if it was meant for reformation or restoration. Nanak certianly didnt convert anyone to Sikhism,
He didn't go out screaming "LOOK AT ME I'M A PROPHET," if that's what you mean.

But he did have many Sikhs (students), so it is wrong to say that no one converted.

his main teaching was essentially for a Hindu to be a good Hindu and vice versa for Muslims. What constituted as a good [insert religion] was that they followed what was taught in scripture, not what society had told them and multiple aimless rituals.
The main emphasis was on going back to their scripture. Essentially, all religions are quite similar in their core. it's just appearances and austerities that make them look different.

A good example is Hinduism. Most Hindus used to (and still do) worship idols and believe in many gods. Guru Nanak told them to go back to their own scripture, where it says that God is formless and has no image.

This is where opinions depart, I believe Guru Nanak came to restore the ancient faiths rather than to create a new one.
Look at the quotes I posted above, do you think a reformer would say that?

Guru Nanak practiced a new religion.

This thread is for people to ask questions and for us to give orthodox Sikh answers. While you have every right to hold your own opinion, please do not give people the wrong impression of Sikhism by posting it here. Most practising Sikhs would not agree with you. You do not hold an orthodox opinion on this issue.

(Original post by nosaer)
What kind of acknowledgement does Sikhism have of Islam and Hinduism? Similar to those that Islam has of its Abrahamic co-religions?
What do you mean by "acknowledgement"?

(Original post by Charzhino)
Alot. The names Allah, the Prophet, Vishnu, Krishna, Indra, Raama, etc are pronounced multiple times throught the Granth Saheb. Along with stories, legends and creation myths from these respective religions.
See what I posted above for the multiple names.

Guru Granth Sahib disregards the myths of other religions clearly. We'll take a Hindu myth as an example. Hindus used to believe that the world is held by a bull. Guru Granth Sahib clearly discounts this by stating:

"What a great load there is on the bull!"
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 3)

This is a sarcastic comment aimed at dismantling superstitious belief from the minds of the people.

(Original post by Einheri)
Are women allowed to shave? Most South Asian women are disgustingly hairy - I can't see how this would be anything be deeply unpleasant.
The fact that you judge a woman based solely on her appearance is deeply unpleasant :rolleyes:

In my experience, most actually don't have much hair and it doesn't affect them at all. It's only a small few that do. Don't generalise.

(Original post by Charzhino)
Sikhi wiki is a good quick guide. Here is a link with Krishna used as the search term which brings its relevance in Sikhism with scriptural quotes.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Krishna
SikhiWiki isn't great for information on Sikhism for two reasons:
1. People can change it, like Wkipedia, to suit their own opinion on various issues, rather than the orthodox Sikh opinion.
2. It's set up by SikhNet, who are a mixed bag. They are excellent at most of the Rehit (code of coduct), but they give way too much devotion to Yogi Bhajan rather than God and they think that Yoga is the way to get spiritually enlightened, which has no base at all in Sikhism.

(Original post by Pn94)
Although the religion itself is completely different to Islam and Hinduism - not a mere branch-off as some suggest.
At least somebody is thinking today :rolleyes:
0
reply
Einheri
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#712
Report 7 years ago
#712
(Original post by SaintSoldier)
The fact that you judge a woman based solely on her appearance is deeply unpleasant :rolleyes:

In my experience, most actually don't have much hair and it doesn't affect them at all. It's only a small few that do. Don't generalise.
When I did I say "solely"?

In my experience most have 'taches. That's nasty, man.
0
reply
nosaer
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#713
Report 7 years ago
#713
(Original post by SaintSoldier)

If your Guru came with the truth no-one else had, why did he not do more to convert people, and similarly why do Sikhs not convert people nowadays? This is of course on your assumption Sikhism is the truth which no other religion possesses, and not saying something like there are many paths to God, each to their own.

"All religions have similarities" - yes some do, the Abrahamic ones especially do. But for example, Islam accounts for its similarities with these other religions. I was asking, given the similarities I see within Sikhism, how does it account for these.

Actually, I'd be interested to know exactly what Sikhism's position is on alcohol because it is not, as you suggest, simply bad for you. Alcohol has some useful properties and harmful ones, which interesting both Islam and Hinduism both acknowledge.

If Sikhism is the truth, why was it revealed to man so late in mankind's history, 15th century was it? What of the people before?
0
reply
Phantom Lord
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#714
Report 7 years ago
#714
The tenth Sikh Guru Guru Gobind Singh proclaimed that one Sikh was equal to sava lakh (one hundred and twenty five thousand)
The Sikh leader Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was reported to have said 'One Sikh could easily reckon with thirty-five Hindus.

Can you clarify what they meant?
0
reply
SaintSoldier
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#715
Report 7 years ago
#715
(Original post by Einheri)
In my experience most have 'taches. That's nasty, man.
Look at what you've just said for a spiritual standpoint, and you'll see your error.

Women are not eye-candy for you to stare at whenever you please. A woman is an independent personage in her own right, and deserves the utmost respect.

http://www.sikhanswers.com/modern-yo...eing-a-sardar/

This article is more about turbans, but the point is still the same.

(Original post by nosaer)
If your Guru came with the truth no-one else had, why did he not do more to convert people, and similarly why do Sikhs not convert people nowadays? This is of course on your assumption Sikhism is the truth which no other religion possesses, and not saying something like there are many paths to God, each to their own.
We believe that Sikhism is the truth, but that does not mean that all religions are false per say.

I'll use the analogy of an exam:
In an exam, for few people get 100%. Equally, very few people get 0%. Most people are somehwere in the middle.
Let's say I get 100%, which is a very good score. You may not score as well as me, but you may still score well. For example, you may score 85%. That's a good score, and get's you your A.

This is how we view other religions. They have some of the Truth, but not all of it.

What you must realise though is that we believe that actions speak far louder than beliefs. We believe that we have 100% of the truth for our beliefs, but the responsibility is still on us to do good deeds.

A person is fundamentally judged on their actions, and not as much on their beliefs.

Beliefs are still important, but actions are more so.

Anbody can perform good deeds, hence there isn't a great urgency for conversions.

We do not condemn the "unbelievers" to suffering simply for not believing in Sikhism, as other religions would have it. That is not fair. Everyone is judged on their individual merits, and their personal relationship with God and humanity.

This is why Sikhism is acknowledges that other paths can lead to God. But we believe that Sikhism is the easiest and best way to do it in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMZkI9HvBLQ

As an aside, Sikhism does not encourage pilgrimages to a particular place or fasts at a particular time of year, hence it is more open than other faiths. You could be practicing aspects of Sikhism without even knowing it.

I posted something on here about parchaar (preaching) on here a couple of weeks ago. Go back a couple of pages and you'll find that post. I just don't want to re-write everything, that's all.

"All religions have similarities" - yes some do, the Abrahamic ones especially do. But for example, Islam accounts for its similarities with these other religions. I was asking, given the similarities I see within Sikhism, how does it account for these.
The knowledge of God is abundant around us. Truly spritual people can see God everywhere, throughout the creation.

People can tap into this knowledge, and thus gain an experience of God.

Actually, I'd be interested to know exactly what Sikhism's position is on alcohol because it is not, as you suggest, simply bad for you. Alcohol has some useful properties and harmful ones, which interesting both Islam and Hinduism both acknowledge.
If you give humans leeway in a particular area, they will probably transgress their boundaries and abuse that right. Rather than say, you can drink X amount, it is easier to ban alcohol outright, because the risks outweigh the benefits by far. Alcohol consumption not only damages health, but it impairs your mind. Millions of families have been torn apart by alcohol abuse, so I don't see any justification for it's use. I'd rather be on the safe side, than regret it later.

“Do not drink the false alcohol at all, as far as it lies in your power.”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 544)

“The false-minded people who drink the alcohol are the husbands of prostitutes and their thinking is stupid. But those who are imbued with the sublime essence of the Lord, O Nanak, are intoxicated with the Truth.”
(Guru Granth sahib, Ang 399)

“Those who keep association with the (strong) five desires, put the meat of a boiled chicken in one pot, and in the other pot they put alcohol. They sit around (this meat and alcohol), and amidst these (corrupt and wicked men) sits the noseless one, the shameless queen (i.e. Maya – the illusionary world). ||1||”(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 476)

“(O Yogi!) The Perfect Lord naturally gives the cup of Truth, to the one upon whom Waheguru casts His Glance of Grace. One who trades in this Amrit, the Divine-nectar, which gives eternal spiritual life – how could he ever love the alcohol of the world? ||2||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 360)

“O Kabeer! Those mortals who consume marijuana (drugs), fish (meat) and wine (liquor) – no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1377)

“Salok, Third Mehl: One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup. Drinking which, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind; he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is pushed away by his Lord and Master; One should strictly avoid this evil alcohol by drinking of which one forgets Waheguru and is punished in His Court.
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 554)

There is no duality here, a Sikh must not touch alcohol. it's just too risky.

If Sikhism is the truth, why was it revealed to man so late in mankind's history, 15th century was it? What of the people before?
Sikhism does not condemn the people who do not believe in our faith, hence there is no problem about other people. Everyone, no matter what their state, has the capacity to do good deeds - this is what they (and all people) are fundamentally judged on.

The fact the Sikhism is new doesn't really matter to me. Bearing in mind that the Universe is 17 billion years old, the difference between the ages of Sikhism and other religions is practically nothing. This is minute byt the standards of God, who is eternal.

Islam has only been around for 0.6% of mankind's existance, so this issue is just exclusively tied to Sikhism.

(Original post by AkaJetson)
The tenth Sikh Guru Guru Gobind Singh proclaimed that one Sikh was equal to sava lakh (one hundred and twenty five thousand)
With the formation of the Khalsa, Guru Gobind Singh had to inspire the Sikhs to fight for the freedom of themselves and others. The Sikhs were under severe persecution, and the Sikhs also had to fight the for the sake of Hindus, who were being force coonverted into Islam. There are many quotes attributed to him from this period, for example:
"One Sikh will fight 125000"
"I'll teach the lowly spearrow to fight the might hawk"

This was all too galvinise the Sikhs into the Sant-Sipahi (Saint-Soldier) mindset, which is a key ideal for every Sikh (hence my username on TSR).

Guru Gobind Singh's Khalsa transformed a disorgansied rabble of peasant farmers into the bravest and most fearless warriors the world has ever seen. This is a magnificant achievement, by anyone's standards. Some historians state that if Guru Gobind Singh had never lived, then India would be a Muslims state.

The Sikh leader Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was reported to have said 'One Sikh could easily reckon with thirty-five Hindus.
When did he say this?

I've heard the phrase "Sheep will always outnumber Lions, but one Lion can take care of a thousand Sheep," but I've never heard what you posted.

In any case, Jarnail Singh was a Saint at best. He's not a Guru, hence his words do not necessarily represent Sikhism or its practices.
0
reply
nosaer
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#716
Report 7 years ago
#716
(Original post by SaintSoldier)
We believe that Sikhism is the truth, but that does not mean that all religions are false per say.

I'll use the analogy of an exam:
In an exam, for few people get 100%. Equally, very few people get 0%. Most people are somehwere in the middle.
Let's say I get 100%, which is a very good score. You may not score as well as me, but you may still score well. For example, you may score 85%. That's a good score, and get's you your A.

This is how we view other religions. They have some of the Truth, but not all of it.
If you believe God gave you the whole truth in Sikhism, you're either selfish to keep it to yourself, or you obviously don't have much faith in it that you feel the need to spread the truth. If there are different paths to God, and each has its merits enough that you feel you don't need to preach to them, then one wonders why Guru Nanak even started Sikhism.

What you must realise though is that we believe that actions speak far louder than beliefs. We believe that we have 100% of the truth for our beliefs, but the responsibility is still on us to do good deeds.

A person is fundamentally judged on their actions, and not as much on their beliefs.

Beliefs are still important, but actions are more so.

Anbody can perform good deeds, hence there isn't a great urgency for conversions.
You could argue anybody can perform good deeds, so why do you need religion at all?

As an aside, Sikhism does not encourage pilgrimages to a particular place or fasts at a particular time of year, hence it is more open than other faiths. You could be practicing aspects of Sikhism without even knowing it.
Unlikely, since Islam was around before Sikhism existed. If anything, you could be observing Islamic, Hindu, etc practices without knowing it.


The knowledge of God is abundant around us. Truly spritual people can see God everywhere, throughout the creation.

People can tap into this knowledge, and thus gain an experience of God.
Didn't answer the question but whatever.

If you give humans leeway in a particular area, they will probably transgress their boundaries and abuse that right. Rather than say, you can drink X amount, it is easier to ban alcohol outright, because the risks outweigh the benefits by far. Alcohol consumption not only damages health, but it impairs your mind. Millions of families have been torn apart by alcohol abuse, so I don't see any justification for it's use. I'd rather be on the safe side, than regret it later.

“Do not drink the false alcohol at all, as far as it lies in your power.”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 544)

“The false-minded people who drink the alcohol are the husbands of prostitutes and their thinking is stupid. But those who are imbued with the sublime essence of the Lord, O Nanak, are intoxicated with the Truth.”
(Guru Granth sahib, Ang 399)

“Those who keep association with the (strong) five desires, put the meat of a boiled chicken in one pot, and in the other pot they put alcohol. They sit around (this meat and alcohol), and amidst these (corrupt and wicked men) sits the noseless one, the shameless queen (i.e. Maya – the illusionary world). ||1||”(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 476)

“(O Yogi!) The Perfect Lord naturally gives the cup of Truth, to the one upon whom Waheguru casts His Glance of Grace. One who trades in this Amrit, the Divine-nectar, which gives eternal spiritual life – how could he ever love the alcohol of the world? ||2||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 360)

“O Kabeer! Those mortals who consume marijuana (drugs), fish (meat) and wine (liquor) – no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1377)

“Salok, Third Mehl: One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup. Drinking which, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind; he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is pushed away by his Lord and Master; One should strictly avoid this evil alcohol by drinking of which one forgets Waheguru and is punished in His Court.
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 554)

There is no duality here, a Sikh must not touch alcohol. it's just too risky.
Point missed. Islam too forbids alcohol. What I said, was its incorrect to say alcohol is bad period. We now know it to have some beneficial properties, and both islamic and hindu scriptures acknowledge this fact. They don't say 'alcohol is bad, avoid it', they say alcohol has both good and bad properties and in Islam at least, goes on to say that the bad outweigh the good, thus it is prohibited. Sound familiar - you don't need to preach that to me....Islam's already said this.

Sikhism does not condemn the people who do not believe in our faith, hence there is no problem about other people. Everyone, no matter what their state, has the capacity to do good deeds - this is what they (and all people) are fundamentally judged on.
No reason then for anyone to follow Sikhism. You can do good deeds without Sikhism and arguably without religion entirely, and you can find God without Sikhism too. Ergo, seems pretty pointless to me.

The fact the Sikhism is new doesn't really matter to me. Bearing in mind that the Universe is 17 billion years old, the difference between the ages of Sikhism and other religions is practically nothing. This is minute byt the standards of God, who is eternal.

Islam has only been around for 0.6% of mankind's existance, so this issue is just exclusively tied to Sikhism.
Still denying a heck of a lot of people this absolute truth that is Sikhism.

Im not looking for debate, these are just my opinion. So far as I can tell, I see absolutely nothing that Sikhism offers that other religions or belief systems don't. To me, it seems like a religion meant for the people around its founder, not humanity.
0
reply
SaintSoldier
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#717
Report 7 years ago
#717
(Original post by nosaer)
If you believe God gave you the whole truth in Sikhism, you're either selfish to keep it to yourself, or you obviously don't have much faith in it that you feel the need to spread the truth. If there are different paths to God, and each has its merits enough that you feel you don't need to preach to them, then one wonders why Guru Nanak even started Sikhism.

You could argue anybody can perform good deeds, so why do you need religion at all?

Unlikely, since Islam was around before Sikhism existed. If anything, you could be observing Islamic, Hindu, etc practices without knowing it.

Didn't answer the question but whatever.

Point missed. Islam too forbids alcohol. What I said, was its incorrect to say alcohol is bad period. We now know it to have some beneficial properties, and both islamic and hindu scriptures acknowledge this fact. They don't say 'alcohol is bad, avoid it', they say alcohol has both good and bad properties and in Islam at least, goes on to say that the bad outweigh the good, thus it is prohibited. Sound familiar - you don't need to preach that to me....Islam's already said this.

No reason then for anyone to follow Sikhism. You can do good deeds without Sikhism and arguably without religion entirely, and you can find God without Sikhism too. Ergo, seems pretty pointless to me.

Still denying a heck of a lot of people this absolute truth that is Sikhism.

Im not looking for debate, these are just my opinion. So far as I can tell, I see absolutely nothing that Sikhism offers that other religions or belief systems don't. To me, it seems like a religion meant for the people around its founder, not humanity.
I actually went to a talk on the parchaar (preaching) topic today. I only was present for half of it, but there was a lot of information and it has changed my opinion on the topic. I'll post some of the main points on here soon.

I'm snowed under with work atm, so I'll get back to you in a couple of days, I promise!
0
reply
okapobcfc08
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#718
Report 7 years ago
#718
(Original post by nosaer)
Whats your problem mate? Why do keep barking about why Sikhism is so special and keep comparing it to Islam. That in itself is the best part of Sikhism. We dont look for trouble of no-one. Sikhism's speciality is it's lack of arrogant beliefs, lack of boasting by it's prophets, acceptance of every human being regardless of who they are. I would like to ask you a question. Why do certain minority within Islam always look to claim Sikhism as theyre own or ridicule it in some way?
0
reply
okapobcfc08
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#719
Report 7 years ago
#719
(Original post by J DOT A)
He's correct. Most Sikhs in UK, USA and Canada go on about Khalistan, whereas the Sikh farmers in Punjab really couldn't care less.
please look up farmers suicide rates in Panjab over last half decade, you tell me they want more of the current same?
0
reply
Phantom Lord
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#720
Report 7 years ago
#720
(Original post by okapobcfc08)
Whats your problem mate? Why do keep barking about why Sikhism is so special and keep comparing it to Islam. That in itself is the best part of Sikhism. We dont look for trouble of no-one. Sikhism's speciality is it's lack of arrogant beliefs, lack of boasting by it's prophets, acceptance of every human being regardless of who they are. I would like to ask you a question. Why do certain minority within Islam always look to claim Sikhism as theyre own or ridicule it in some way?
He's just asking questions.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Have you registered to vote?

Yes! (490)
37.72%
No - but I will (100)
7.7%
No - I don't want to (88)
6.77%
No - I can't vote (<18, not in UK, etc) (621)
47.81%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise