Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Good bloke
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#7201
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#7201
(Original post by Boab)
But don't you worry, keep telling yourself, people are lying to the pollsters, if that keeps you happy. :rolleyes:
Surely, with the polls continuing to show the no vote in the lead, it must be the pro-independence crowd that hopes the people are lying?
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Boab
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#7202
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#7202
(Original post by Good bloke)
Surely, with the polls continuing to show the no vote in the lead, it must be the pro-independence crowd that hopes the people are lying?
Of course not, you don't convince people overnight. By my reckoning we should overtake NO sometime around July
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MatureStudent36
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#7203
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#7203
(Original post by Boab)
I think you have confused the NO campaign with the irrelevant ramblings of this forum, unless, this is the NO campaign?
Wouldn't surprise I suppose, the grass roots element of NO is pretty pathetic in comparison to the scale of YES, which could be a key factor come September.

But don't you worry, keep telling yourself, people are lying to the pollsters, if that keeps you happy. :rolleyes:
Amazed you use the word rambling in your response.

All the evidence indicates that that the YeSNP campaign has been telling some not inconsiderable lies.
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MatureStudent36
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#7204
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#7204
(Original post by Boab)
Of course not, you don't convince people overnight. By my reckoning we should overtake NO sometime around July
Keep telling yourself that.

Maths tutor went off line for several months after making predictions that didn't come to fruition.

Has Swinney re assessed the revenues from North Sea oil yet? Or is he still sticking by his made up numbers from a few months back?

Have we had an announcement on the missing EU paperwork fromHolyrood yet?

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4..._2014__pdf.pdf
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Boab
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#7205
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#7205
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Amazed you use the word rambling in your response.

All the evidence indicates that that the YeSNP campaign has been telling some not inconsiderable lies.
Bravo Sir, just ignore everything and revert to saying YES is lying!

NO are of course beacons of honesty! :rolleyes:
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Boab
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#7206
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#7206
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Keep telling yourself that.
I'm not telling myself that, I'm reading the polls. You are the one making excuses for the polls, after months proclaiming them as evidence that the vast majority of Scots would vote no.

Make yer mind up lad.

Now, I'm not using this as a form of evidence, just showing what COULD happen if the polls continue on their current trajectory of the last 5 months.....

(using data from The Times - not a YES paper clearly)

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Now MatureStudent would claim that as the time nears, people will panic and think of their kids etc and change their mind and vote NO.

I say the momentum of YES plus a hugely greater grassroots activism base, plus a bigger and more creative marketing campaign will rocket the YES vote.

Only opinions of course, that's what I deal in. Not like most of the NO lot on here that simply cite their opinion as fact.
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MatureStudent36
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#7207
(Original post by Boab)
Bravo Sir, just ignore everything and revert to saying YES is lying!

NO are of course beacons of honesty! :rolleyes:
Where's the legal advice on Europe? You know the one that Salmond and sturgeon claimed to have then spent £20k of taxpayers money suppressing the fact that they didn't?

Where's the second oil boom that Salmond et al said would happen? Even though output is declining?

Where's the currency union that they said would happen? It would appear that the others involved have said no?

Where's the guarantee of admiralty work on the Clyde? BAe seems to not be too sure.
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honeywhite
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#7208
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#7208
(Original post by Boab)
If Scotland becomes Independent and the rUK honestly takes the position that they don't want a currency union, so be it, plan B may well have to do (and it does exist) but for now this is simply political posturing.
I asked you a simple, factual question; maybe I didn't come right out and ask it, but here it goes again. If plan B exists, what is it? Source (and, possibly, date) please.
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Boab
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#7209
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#7209
(Original post by honeywhite)
I asked you a simple, factual question; maybe I didn't come right out and ask it, but here it goes again. If plan B exists, what is it? Source (and, possibly, date) please.
No. I don't know if you are aware of the existence of Google or even have the ability to browse back through the last few days of this topic, but it has been addressed time and time again. The evidence is there, I'm not wasting my time anymore pandering to broken records!
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honeywhite
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#7210
(Original post by Boab)
No. I don't know if you are aware of the existence of Google or even have the ability to browse back through the last few days of this topic, but it has been addressed time and time again. The evidence is there, I'm not wasting my time anymore pandering to broken records!
I did Google your question, but my eyes are a bit poor so I hadn't been sure if I'd read it right. Effectively, this is what I got:

Salmond: English imperialist pigs! If this referendum goes through, we want out, but we want to use the pound just like you do and have a say in whether it goes up or down. Is that A-OK?

Westminster: HELL NO!

Salmond: That's okay, we'll use it anyway, whether you're A-OK with it or not.

Westminster: Up yours.
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Boab
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#7211
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Where's the legal advice on Europe? You know the one that Salmond and sturgeon claimed to have then spent £20k of taxpayers money suppressing the fact that they didn't?

Where's the second oil boom that Salmond et al said would happen? Even though output is declining?

Where's the currency union that they said would happen? It would appear that the others involved have said no?

Where's the guarantee of admiralty work on the Clyde? BAe seems to not be too sure.
Why do you keep asking the same questions that have been discussed time and time again?

You ask for guarantees, and there are none. We could remain in the UK and end up out of the EU. Oil is never guaranteed either way, but we sure ain't getting any benefit from it now. The currency union, I really don't care about, and the jobs on the Clyde have been disappearing for years, maybe we can do something about it.

I'm voting YES whatever your protestations and I'm convincing more people every day, out where it matters, the streets, as are the rest of the YES army of campaigners.

Good luck to you with your other NO pals on here. I reckon yer fighting a losing battle, amongst yersels - not many undecideds here!
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Boab
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#7212
(Original post by honeywhite)
I did Google your question, but my eyes are a bit poor so I hadn't been sure if I'd read it right. Effectively, this is what I got:

Salmond: English imperialist pigs! If this referendum goes through, we want out, but we want to use the pound just like you do and have a say in whether it goes up or down. Is that A-OK?

Westminster: HELL NO!

Salmond: That's okay, we'll use it anyway, whether you're A-OK with it or not.

Westminster: Up yours.
Good for you.
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Boab
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#7213
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#7213
(Original post by Boab)
Anyone on the NO side know how they could very easily win this referendum tomorrow, with one joint statement? I do, and it would be very simple, but thankfully they won't, due to their inability to work together, despite their 'Better Together' name.
NO ask a lot of questions. How about answering one?
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honeywhite
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#7214
(Original post by Boab)
Good for you.
Very laconic. So that's what the great, mythical Plan B was---to continue to use the pound illegally?

Salmond neglects to understand that a currency union, even if entered into illegally/unofficially in such a way, is also illegal by EU rules.

A newly independent Kingdom of Scotland (NIKoS) would be a member of the European Union, the European Economic Community, the European Currency Union, and other such treaty organisations. The rules for such a member dictate that new states upon accession adopt the common market currency (the European euro) as legal tender to the exclusion of other currencies; the United Kingdom had a one-time exception, but the NIKoS would not be subject to that exception and would have two choices:

1) Pledge to adopt the common market currency and set a date for its adoption;
2) Exit the European Union.

This is why Norway is not yet in the EU, and this is probably why the NIKoS would have to exit the EU, since it is already a member.
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MatureStudent36
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#7215
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#7215
(Original post by Boab)
Why do you keep asking the same questions that have been discussed time and time again?

You ask for guarantees, and there are none. We could remain in the UK and end up out of the EU. Oil is never guaranteed either way, but we sure ain't getting any benefit!
Because I never get them answered?

Can you explain how we don't get the benefits of North Sea oil now?
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Boab
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#7216
(Original post by honeywhite)
Very laconic. So that's what the great, mythical Plan B was---to continue to use the pound illegally?

No, what you've done there is the ever pitiful NO trick of only considering the evidence that suits you, even though a 10 year old could find it in 2 minutes using Google.


Salmond neglects to understand that a currency union, even if entered into illegally/unofficially in such a way, is also illegal by EU rules.

Alex Salmond, a politician that has remained at the forefront of politics in Scotland way longer than everyone else and who is First Minister of Scotland, and also an economist by trade needs lectured by an anonymous internet troll? Sure sure!


A newly independent Kingdom of Scotland (NIKoS) would be a member of the European Union, the European Economic Community, the European Currency Union, and other such treaty organisations. The rules for such a member dictate that new states upon accession adopt the common market currency (the European euro) as legal tender to the exclusion of other currencies; the United Kingdom had a one-time exception, but the NIKoS would not be subject to that exception and would have two choices:

1) Pledge to adopt the common market currency and set a date for its adoption;
2) Exit the European Union.

This is why Norway is not yet in the EU, and this is probably why the NIKoS would have to exit the EU, since it is already a member.
No, Norway isn't in the EU because the public voted against joining in a referendum.
I think Norway will survive.
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Boab
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#7217
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Because I never get them answered?

Can you explain how we don't get the benefits of North Sea oil now?
Nope! Keep agreeing with yer NO mates if it cheers you up though. Can't be bothered arguing with a broken record.
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MatureStudent36
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#7218
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#7218
(Original post by Boab)
Nope! Keep agreeing with yer NO mates if it cheers you up though. Can't be bothered arguing with a broken record.
I'm not really a broken record. I'm a voter in this referendum and I'm concerned that key 'facts' by the SNP are mere assumptions. Assumptions that they've chosen to ignore.

I have no doubt that issues such as monetary policy, the economy, sustainability and pensions go way above you're head, but for many of us they're major concerns. Major concerns on top of a desire to stay within the UK.
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Boab
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#7219
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#7219
Constantly asking the same questions over and over when given explanations and using only the information that fits your agenda. I call that broken record, but yer entitled to yer own opinion.

Most of the questions you ask, you even know the answer yerself already!
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Boab
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#7220
Name:  Campaign-to-save-the-UK-in-crisis-224x300.jpg
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Size:  33.2 KB When even The Daily Mail is getting worried, people should maybe accept YES has the momentum!
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