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The Arsenal Thread XXII watch

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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    It's a good post and I agree with it, but Klopp could easily come in and take over from Brendan's work so far.
    Yeah I agree. I guess I meant in terms of the sense it makes relatively (Liverpool to Arsenal), and it would be a little unfair on Brendan but I suppose that's football. Expect to him to get the City job most likely anyway.
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    Point wasn't that he isn't good enough to take over one day but instead now is not the right time. It's not like our players haven't left in the past either and the injury argument can also include us too. We're talking about a squad that's only 1 or two signings away from making a title bid and we've been playing our best football after a long time.

    At no point did I say Klopp wouldn't be good enough to take us further one day, but it's plain obvious how much of a risk it would be to outright replace Wenger with Klopp this window and the repercussions it may have going onto next season. No one can predict how long it'll actually take for Klopp to adapt to the premier league either.

    I don't get why everyone's kicking a fuss about this either. Not as if it's unfair on me to be hesitant on the situation considering the position both clubs are in right now.
    I'd happily take Klopp at the end of Wenger's contract but to outright sack Wenger this summer would be ridiculous. It's just the risk of falling back worries me, that's all.
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    (Original post by Depleted)
    Would love a Simeone/Mourinho showdown. Scenes when Cholo pokes JT in the eye.
    Mourinho isn't even hard, he's just a cretin. Simmeone would gouge his eyes out before Jose had time to think.

    Alex Ferguson 1985 vs Simmeone is the one.
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    (Original post by samba)
    Guardiola arguably, but no way Mourinho. He's been poor for the last 3 or 4 years imo, but before that he was an absolute beast in that everywhere he went he turned things to gold. In multiple countries, over multiple years.

    Rodgers is only 5 years younger than Klopp btw.
    Cant really think of one thing Mourinho does better than Simmeone tbh. Defensive organisation, recruitment, man motivation, tactics etc.

    Simmeone is just Mourinho on steroids.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Klopp and Simmeone are ahead of Mourinho and Guardiola imo

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    (Original post by Depleted)
    Yeah I agree. I guess I meant in terms of the sense it makes relatively (Liverpool to Arsenal), and it would be a little unfair on Brendan but I suppose that's football. Expect to him to get the City job most likely anyway.
    Think we'll see Rafa in the City job if he doesn't go to Madrid, and Ancelotti if he does.
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    Point wasn't that he isn't good enough to take over one day but instead now is not the right time. It's not like our players haven't left in the past either and the injury argument can also include us too. We're talking about a squad that's only 1 or two signings away from making a title bid and we've been playing our best football after a long time.

    At no point did I say Klopp wouldn't be good enough to take us further one day, but it's plain obvious how much of a risk it would be to outright replace Wenger with Klopp this window and the repercussions it may have going onto next season. No one can predict how long it'll actually take for Klopp to adapt to the premier league either.

    I don't get why everyone's kicking a fuss about this either. Not as if it's unfair on me to be hesitant on the situation considering the position both clubs are in right now.
    I'd happily take Klopp at the end of Wenger's contract but to outright sack Wenger this summer would be ridiculous. It's just the risk of falling back worries me, that's all.
    When is the next time that a manager of Klopp's quality will be available to succeed Wenger?

    Simeone is at Atletico till 2020, Pep will have better offers and Jose isn't going to manage Arsenal. It's not as if it's Klopp or die, but you'd be best served getting him while you can.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Cant really think of one thing Mourinho does better than Simmeone tbh. Defensive organisation, recruitment, man motivation, tactics etc.

    Simmeone is just Mourinho on steroids.
    Trophy winning, and that's something you can't argue with.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Rightly so. In the years since Wenger's Emirates project has started paying dividends in terms of team building we've attracted world class talent, won the Cup, should retain the Cup and moved up to 2nd probably with the core of a potentially title winning team clearly in place with decent age diversity etc.

    Wenger's doing a fine job and we're basically midway through his last cycle that gives him one last chance at another title.
    Agree. The instability it would cause would be detrimental to our already pretty weak (albeit improving) mentality, especially considering our form at the minute. I didn't word it right but if the circumstances were right i'd take him in a heartbeat, but then we have the question of by the time the circumstances are right who is to say he will be available, and if he isn't who would we get thats better? It's either take the risk of instability or take the risk that someone suitable is available in the future.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    When is the next time that a manager of Klopp's quality will be available to succeed Wenger?

    Simeone is at Atletico till 2020, Pep will have better offers and Jose isn't going to manage Arsenal. It's not as if it's Klopp or die, but you'd be best served getting him while you can.

    Fair enough then. I don't disagree with the idea that we won't be able to find a better replacement, but I highly doubt he'll show immediate results as some fans were hoping out for when calling for his name earlier on in the season. My point stands though that there'd be a significant risk of us missing out on top 4 next season if he were to take over.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    When is the next time that a manager of Klopp's quality will be available to succeed Wenger?

    Simeone is at Atletico till 2020, Pep will have better offers and Jose isn't going to manage Arsenal. It's not as if it's Klopp or die, but you'd be best served getting him while you can.
    Things change quickly in football. For a start new managers will emerge by 2017 and the likes of Ancelotti are certain to be looking for work. What Arsenal fans need to accept is that Arsene Wenger is completely unique and he cant actually be replaced. We'll just have to make the best of that day when it comes.

    There are plenty of great managers who've gone under the radar anyway. Favre at Monchengladbach for instance is somebody who nobody ever talks about but what he has done is outstanding.
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    (Original post by Kim-Jong-Illest)
    Agree. The instability it would cause would be detrimental to our already pretty weak (albeit improving) mentality, especially considering our form at the minute. I didn't word it right but if the circumstances were right i'd take him in a heartbeat, but then we have the question of by the time the circumstances are right who is to say he will be available, and if he isn't who would we get thats better? It's either take the risk of instability or take the risk that someone suitable is available in the future.

    Well this is pretty much the point I was trying to make but people started assuming I didn't rate Klopp lol
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Things change quickly in football. For a start new managers will emerge by 2017 and the likes of Ancelotti are certain to be looking for work. What Arsenal fans need to accept is that Arsene Wenger is completely unique and he cant actually be replaced. We'll just have to make the best of that day when it comes.

    There are plenty of great managers who've gone under the radar anyway. Favre at Monchengladbach for instance is somebody who nobody ever talks about but what he has done is outstanding.
    Yes Zurich it's really easy to dump in hipster names like Lucian Favre and Vincenzo Montella etc, great managers. There isn't a shortage of them.

    But Klopp is better than all of them. Nobody has elevated a lower mid table team into title winners in the space of three years like Klopp has, and nobody has maintained that success whilst losing their best players.

    There are other great managers that would be on the market if Arsenal went in for them. But nobody as good, or most importantly, as proven, as Klopp.
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    (Original post by Kim-Jong-Illest)
    Agree. The instability it would cause would be detrimental to our already pretty weak (albeit improving) mentality, especially considering our form at the minute. I didn't word it right but if the circumstances were right i'd take him in a heartbeat, but then we have the question of by the time the circumstances are right who is to say he will be available, and if he isn't who would we get thats better? It's either take the risk of instability or take the risk that someone suitable is available in the future.
    Highly doubt that. In a worst case scenario there'd be short term set backs as the players got used to a new manager's methods. This summer there's actually a full pre-season so it's not as if it'd even be that bad. And it's not as if Arsenal usually start the season all guns blazing under Wenger anyway. And it's questionable how much managerial input Wenger is even having at the present moment; there's no doubt that he's fostered a style of play and improved players, but what's to say that Klopp couldn't do the same (ie with players that are already improved, and further improve the ones he has).

    And that's without going into the whole 'new manager' buzz that would come about at Arsenal. At BVB he took them from 13th to 6th in his first season, and then to a title within another two. And it's kinda hard to understate how ****e that 13th place squad actually was.
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    Well this is pretty much the point I was trying to make but people started assuming I didn't rate Klopp lol
    Well mainly because you said
    Not sold on Klopp AT ALL. If he's struggling in the Bundesliga then I can only imagine how he'd cope with the premier league.
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    Wenger has lost his eye for talent most of his signings are not that good
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Well mainly because you said
    A lot of Arsenal fans had this illusion that Klopp would come in and we'd immediately see a massive change in the team, that we'd become title winners and actually be able to be a presence in Europe. The idea that he'd come in and hit the ground running is what I'm not sold with because I still think the repercussions of replacing Wenger at a time like this would cost us badly.

    Obviously there's no garuantee to whether he would hit the ground running or it'd take him a year or two to adapt to the league.
    Not to forget that in the Bundesliga they're only really competing with Bayern. In the PL he'd have to overcome Chelsea/UTD and City if they manage not to implode.
    Then there's always Liverpool who are ever so close to becoming regular top 4 contenders too.
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    A lot of Arsenal fans had this illusion that Klopp would come in and we'd immediately see a massive change in the team, that we'd become title winners and actually be able to be a presence in Europe. The idea that he'd come in and hit the ground running is what I'm not sold with because I still think the repercussions of replacing Wenger at a time like this would cost us badly.

    Obviously there's no garuantee to whether he would hit the ground running or it'd take him a year or two to adapt to the league.
    Not to forget that in the Bundesliga they're only really competing with Bayern. In the PL he'd have to overcome Chelsea/UTD and City if they manage not to implode.
    Then there's always Liverpool who are ever so close to becoming regular top 4 contenders too.
    It's not like his style of play isn't suited to the PL though? You're also forgetting that he'd have:

    A) a fairly large transfer budget to bring in who he likes
    B) basically a ready-made squad which needs a couple additions to complete

    The style of play he implements is totally suited to the PL and is (I think) quite similar to how Liverpool were playing towards the back end of last season, high press with explosiveness up top and pace. And in any case the argument of adapting to PL isn't really relevant to BuLi which is quick paced anyway. He didn't just compete with Bayern, there's Schalke, Werder, Wolfsburg who are capable of challenging too.
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    A lot of Arsenal fans had this illusion that Klopp would come in and we'd immediately see a massive change in the team, that we'd become title winners and actually be able to be a presence in Europe. The idea that he'd come in and hit the ground running is what I'm not sold with because I still think the repercussions of replacing Wenger at a time like this would cost us badly.

    Obviously there's no garuantee to whether he would hit the ground running or it'd take him a year or two to adapt to the league.
    Not to forget that in the Bundesliga they're only really competing with Bayern. In the PL he'd have to overcome Chelsea/UTD and City if they manage not to implode.
    Then there's always Liverpool who are ever so close to becoming regular top 4 contenders too.
    In terms of playing style, Bundesliga and PL aren't too far apart, the two most similar top five leagues. Similar paced games, lots of transitions and goals. Arsenal are already used to playing football on the ground and Klopp already has the raw tools and high energy young players in Ramsey, Sanchez, Ox, Bellerin to thrive in his pressing game. You'd definitely be better in Europe under him than under Wenger, and that'd be an immediate change.

    Besides this is a tangent; I just replied to why people were making fun of you not rating Klopp - because you said as much.
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    Is Klopp a better manager than Wenger? Yes. He hasn't achieved much over the length of his career, but by modern standards, he certainly is. He has revolutionised a scouting network at Dortmund and is much more savvy with technological advancements, but he is from Wenger's school of thinking.

    He doesn't like operating with a large squad. He hasn't adapted since his pressing game has been sussed out. His squad are inundated with injuries throughout the season, which exposes the lack of depth when competing on four fronts. He has lots to prove, and he's certainly capable of doing that at Arsenal.

    I'd say you were favourites behind City to land him.
 
 
 
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