Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Not much to say really AR if you want to try and discredit Klopp's achievements by saying that the BuLi (and Bayern) are weak,
    or pretend that Wenger has you near a title challenge this season,
    or can't see that failure to get effective pressing from your players is down to Wenger,
    or can't accept that a new manager would get significant funds,
    or don't believe that Klopp would improve you in Europe from day 1,
    or won't admit that Klopp overachieved with his players.

    I'm all for Wenger staying at Arsenal for longer
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Milner picks you lot over us, according to the Independent.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Not much to say really AR if you want to try and discredit Klopp's achievements by saying that the BuLi (and Bayern) are weak,
    or pretend that Wenger has you near a title challenge this season,
    or can't see that failure to get effective pressing from your players is down to Wenger,
    or can't accept that a new manager would get significant funds,
    or don't believe that Klopp would improve you in Europe from day 1,
    or won't admit that Klopp overachieved with his players.

    I'm all for Wenger staying at Arsenal for longer
    Which is all absolute *******s because none of it relates to what I was saying initially

    + Was not discrediting Klopps achievements, but I said that in the BuLi the only team they'd be competing for the title with is Bayern
    + Don't know where you managed to find the idea that I called Bayern weak
    + Didn't say we were near a title challenge this season
    + Didn't say that he'd be unable to make us press effectively but mentioned the time it would take for the system to work
    + Didn't reject the idea that we'd get further than R16 at any point today
    + Haven't denied that he's overarchieved either.

    All of which is irrelevant to the only point that was made which was we'd be at risk of missing out on top four and taking a step back.

    Essentially you've put words in my mouth but then try and say I'm the one clutching at straws here rofl. It's a poor attempt. Besides, Wenger has more chance of winning another the title then Rodgers ever will have, which is pretty lolworthy
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    He's made some great signings even in the past 3 years.

    Giroud £9.6m, Cazorla £13m, Oxlade £12m and even the likes of Monreal for £9m have been good in the end. When you consider that Mangala cost City £35m, Lovren/Sakho £20m and that Spurs have spunked more on the likes of Chirches, Fazio, Gabriel for £13m looks like a smart move too. Not even mentioning the likes of Koscielny who cost £10m.

    Cant have it both ways anyway. When we were skint Wenger worked miracles and obviously got more rough gems, now that he can afford to buy the finished product in Alexis, Ozil etc you can hardly complain that he's not signing Vieira for £2.5m any more.
    You talk about Cazorla, Monreal but you have to remember that was only because of Malaga's financial crisis. Giroud is looking like a good deal now but he isn't a world class striker to really replace RVP. Ox was a good signing but Man Utd was also in for him it wasn't really something where Wenger spotted him. Gabriel I can't comment on him as I haven't seen enough yet.

    I think some of the signings made this season were not that smart. Alexis, Debuchy, Ospina are ok but Chambers and Welbeck were not good signings imo. Chambers as a RB is probably worse than Bellerin, Jenkinson and Debuchy so what's the point of him? People might say that he's one for the future but that's just speculation. Welbeck was a complete waste of money there were better strikers available but Wenger had no intention of actually buying one he just signed him because Giroud got injured. Look at Vietto he only cost 5.5m and is having a great season at Villareal also he's only 21.

    Also with the issue of Coquelin. He only brought him back because of long term injuries to Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere etc. He never rated him otherwise why did he send him out on loan to a mid table championship club like Charlton?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Not much to say really AR if you want to try and discredit Klopp's achievements by saying that the BuLi (and Bayern) are weak,
    or pretend that Wenger has you near a title challenge this season,
    or can't see that failure to get effective pressing from your players is down to Wenger,
    or can't accept that a new manager would get significant funds,
    or don't believe that Klopp would improve you in Europe from day 1,
    or won't admit that Klopp overachieved with his players.

    I'm all for Wenger staying at Arsenal for longer
    1)We can and have pressed effectively at times this season, we pressed LFC tod eath not 2 weeks ago for instance.
    2)Pressing is in vogue amongst many managers but it is very far from being a necessary tactic for success. City won the league last season without any pressing game, Chelsea do not press particularly much either and nor do the CL holders Real Madrid. Meanwhile Spurs are capable of springing an almighty pressing game but look where they are.

    In many cases in fact pressing is basically employed by teams lacking the quality to compete with better teams otherwise and there are many more complex tactical systems to employ.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mackay)
    Milner picks you lot over us, according to the Independent.

    If you read the article they mention "according to The Sun" so I wouldn't consider it.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    1)We can and have pressed effectively at times this season, we pressed LFC tod eath not 2 weeks ago for instance.
    2)Pressing is in vogue amongst many managers but it is very far from being a necessary tactic for success. City won the league last season without any pressing game, Chelsea do not press particularly much either and nor do the CL holders Real Madrid. Meanwhile Spurs are capable of springing an almighty pressing game but look where they are.

    In many cases in fact pressing is basically employed by teams lacking the quality to compete with better teams otherwise and there are many more complex tactical systems to employ.
    It was more about AR trying to suggest that Wenger wasn't at fault for a failure to press well, despite admitting that your players had the ability to do so.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Also Aqib just read back through the thread, the quotes are there for every one of them.

    Still waiting on a reply in the Liverpool thread x
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by al_94)
    You talk about Cazorla, Monreal but you have to remember that was only because of Malaga's financial crisis. Giroud is looking like a good deal now but he isn't a world class striker to really replace RVP. Ox was a good signing but Man Utd was also in for him it wasn't really something where Wenger spotted him. Gabriel I can't comment on him as I haven't seen enough yet.

    I think some of the signings made this season were not that smart. Alexis, Debuchy, Ospina are ok but Chambers and Welbeck were not good signings imo. Chambers as a RB is probably worse than Bellerin, Jenkinson and Debuchy so what's the point of him? People might say that he's one for the future but that's just speculation. Welbeck was a complete waste of money there were better strikers available but Wenger had no intention of actually buying one he just signed him because Giroud got injured. Look at Vietto he only cost 5.5m and is having a great season at Villareal also he's only 21.

    Also with the issue of Coquelin. He only brought him back because of long term injuries to Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere etc. He never rated him otherwise why did he send him out on loan to a mid table championship club like Charlton?

    1)Chambers is a CB who is still a teenager. Given Shaw going for £30m etc I wouldnt say he''s a bad signing. For his age he's looked good to me and if he takes off £12m will look a steal.
    2)Welbeck was not a waste. We could sell him for what we paid, he's likely to improve and he's scored crucial winning goals for us.
    3)Coquelin was brought in by Wenger who clearly spotted his talent and gave him game time in previous seasons. That it took time for him to take off is not a sign that AW didnt rate him at all.
    4)Giroud is not WC but you said Wenger didnt spot talent any more.
    5)How is the fact Utd were in for AOC a sign that he doesnt spot talent? As if AW only signed him because others were interested too. :rolleyes:


    But yes Debuchy was a poor signing. Better than giving Sagna £130k a week or whatever but given his age I dont understand it myself.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    It was more about AR trying to suggest that Wenger wasn't at fault for a failure to press well, despite admitting that your players had the ability to do so.
    Pretty sure Wenger isn't failing to get his players to press well, he doesnt want them to most of the time.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Also Aqib just read back through the thread, the quotes are there for every one of them.

    Still waiting on a reply in the Liverpool thread x
    Requote me on the Liverpool stuff and I'll reply in the afternoon.

    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    It was more about AR trying to suggest that Wenger wasn't at fault for a failure to press well, despite admitting that your players had the ability to do so.
    Well you decided to conjure up some bs that I was making these points when all that's happened is that you've interpreted wrong, badly.
    And in any case I didn't mention Wenger's name for us not pressing well. I said that it would take Klopp time to implement his system effictively.

    I said
    Not to forget that in the Bundesliga they're only really competing with Bayern.
    Which won't be as hard as competing with Liverpool/City/UTD and Chelsea.
    Then somehow you thought I was discrediting Klopp, and even weirder, Bayern, but I guess you'll just interpret the posts in whatever way suits you lmao so there's no point. The only one clutching at straws here is you.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    1)Chambers is a CB who is still a teenager. Given Shaw going for £30m etc I wouldnt say he''s a bad signing. For his age he's looked good to me and if he takes off £12m will look a steal.
    2)Welbeck was not a waste. We could sell him for what we paid, he's likely to improve and he's scored crucial winning goals for us.
    3)Coquelin was brought in by Wenger who clearly spotted his talent and gave him game time in previous seasons. That it took time for him to take off is not a sign that AW didnt rate him at all.
    4)Giroud is not WC but you said Wenger didnt spot talent any more.
    5)How is the fact Utd were in for AOC a sign that he doesnt spot talent? As if AW only signed him because others were interested too. :rolleyes:


    But yes Debuchy was a poor signing. Better than giving Sagna £130k a week or whatever but given his age I dont understand it myself.
    These are poor arguments my friend I can dismantle them quite easily.

    1) You say Chambers is a CB that's your opinion he has yet to impress me in either position and as I said what you're saying is just speculation. Just because Man Utd bought Shaw for 30m that doesn't make Chambers a good signing. I don't even know how you guys think.
    2) Wenger only bought Welbeck because of the injury to Giroud don't tell me you didn't know that. His record is poor and there are better players for less. Again I don't even know how you rationalize what you're saying.
    3) Wenger never rated Coquelin he sent him out on loan for 3 different clubs for 4 years. If Wenger rated him he would have brought him back for the new season. If you think Wenger didn't only bring him back because of an injury crisis then you should go and live on the moon!
    4) Wenger tried to replace RVP with Giroud and failed. We are still without a WC striker in nearly 4 years.
    5) Ox was going to sign for either Arsenal or Man Utd and he chose Arsenal. That doesn't mean Wenger spots talent the evidence is there that he has not done it enough over the last few years.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by al_94)
    These are poor arguments my friend I can dismantle them quite easily.

    1) You say Chambers is a CB that's your opinion he has yet to impress me in either position and as I said what you're saying is just speculation. Just because Man Utd bought Shaw for 30m that doesn't make Chambers a good signing. I don't even know how you guys think.
    2) Wenger only bought Welbeck because of the injury to Giroud don't tell me you didn't know that. His record is poor and there are better players for less. Again I don't even know how you rationalize what you're saying.
    3) Wenger never rated Coquelin he sent him out on loan for 3 different clubs for 4 years. If Wenger rated him he would have brought him back for the new season. If you think Wenger didn't only bring him back because of an injury crisis then you should go and live on the moon!
    4) Wenger tried to replace RVP with Giroud and failed. We are still without a WC striker in nearly 4 years.
    5) Ox was going to sign for either Arsenal or Man Utd and he chose Arsenal. That doesn't mean Wenger spots talent the evidence is there that he has not done it enough over the last few years.
    1)He's barely played and he's a teenager?
    2)How is a player a waste when he was 100% resale value, and has scored big goals despite overall being average.
    3)He brought Coquelin to the club, he rated him. How is loaning out a young player a sign that he didnt in any way? He played 10 games in each of the last 2 seasons and AW put him into the team this season.
    4)Again, your arguement was about making good signings. Giroud was a very good signing.
    5)Again, What on earth does the fact other clubs also rated AOC got to do with AW rating him?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    Klopp and Simmeone are ahead of Mourinho and Guardiola imo
    Really? I still think Pep and Mourinho are the two best in the business in terms of winning trophies consistently, even if they are always at top clubs. My current top 5 would be:

    1. Pep
    2. Mourinho
    3. Simeone
    4. Ancelotti
    5. Klopp
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by al_94)
    You talk about Cazorla, Monreal but you have to remember that was only because of Malaga's financial crisis. Giroud is looking like a good deal now but he isn't a world class striker to really replace RVP. Ox was a good signing but Man Utd was also in for him it wasn't really something where Wenger spotted him. Gabriel I can't comment on him as I haven't seen enough yet.

    I think some of the signings made this season were not that smart. Alexis, Debuchy, Ospina are ok but Chambers and Welbeck were not good signings imo. Chambers as a RB is probably worse than Bellerin, Jenkinson and Debuchy so what's the point of him? People might say that he's one for the future but that's just speculation. Welbeck was a complete waste of money there were better strikers available but Wenger had no intention of actually buying one he just signed him because Giroud got injured. Look at Vietto he only cost 5.5m and is having a great season at Villareal also he's only 21.

    Also with the issue of Coquelin. He only brought him back because of long term injuries to Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere etc. He never rated him otherwise why did he send him out on loan to a mid table championship club like Charlton?
    He would have never got a work permit...
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Generally it's easier for South American players to move to clubs in Spain, Italy or Portugal
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    1)He's barely played and he's a teenager?
    2)How is a player a waste when he was 100% resale value, and has scored big goals despite overall being average.
    3)He brought Coquelin to the club, he rated him. How is loaning out a young player a sign that he didnt in any way? He played 10 games in each of the last 2 seasons and AW put him into the team this season.
    4)Again, your arguement was about making good signings. Giroud was a very good signing.
    5)Again, What on earth does the fact other clubs also rated AOC got to do with AW rating him?
    1) So does that make him good or is it based on your opinion? It can go both ways but using Shaw for £30m as an argument is a flawed argument.
    2) He is a waste. For a start you have yet to prove that he has a 100% resale value and even if he does it doesn't mean he's a good signing. It's not based on money but rather how much of an impact they have on the team as compared to the price you've paid. So even you can sell Welbeck if it's possible to get somebody better for a better value then he is not a good signing.
    3) You've yet to prove Wenger rated him. My argument is that he came into the squad because of injuries and it was a desperate move. You've yet to deconstruct that and you won't be able to.
    4) Giroud was a good signing when you look at price to performance ratio. You have to look at what you need in the squad. Wenger failed to buy a world class striker that could change us from 4th place contenders to title contenders and that's the problem.
    5) Ox for me was an obvious signing and let's be honest the guy is ridiculously injury prone and has not had as much impact on the team as he should have.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kenan and Kel)
    Really? I still think Pep and Mourinho are the two best in the business in terms of winning trophies consistently, even if they are always at top clubs. My current top 5 would be:

    1. Pep
    2. Mourinho
    3. Simeone
    4. Ancelotti
    5. Klopp
    This, although arguably I'd put Klopp ahead of Ancelotti as I generally think his teams have outperformed themselves (obviously bar this season), beating teams such as Real, CL Final and back to back titles. Whilst Ancelotti is a fantastic manager (cup manager at that) he's had the strongest team in the country (on paper) for each of his last four clubs whilst he was there. They faded away in the league last year, he's made some big big money signings that Klopp hasn't and were two minutes away from not even winning La Decima last season.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Shed End)
    This, although arguably I'd put Klopp ahead of Ancelotti as I generally think his teams have outperformed themselves (obviously bar this season), beating teams such as Real, CL Final and back to back titles. Whilst Ancelotti is a fantastic manager (cup manager at that) he's had the strongest team in the country (on paper) for each of his last four clubs whilst he was there. They faded away in the league last year, he's made some big big money signings that Klopp hasn't and were two minutes away from not even winning La Decima last season.
    12 months ago, I would have had Klopp above Ancelotti. They played each other in the Champions League last season and there wasn't much between them at the end of the two legs, with Klopp obviously having the inferior team quality-wise. But it's his league performances this season which has me ranking Ancelotti above him. I don't think Ancelotti would ever allow his team to perform so poorly in the league, even if he were managing a team with the quality of Borussia Dortmund this season.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kenan and Kel)
    12 months ago, I would have had Klopp above Ancelotti. They played each other in the Champions League and there wasn't much between them at the end of the two legs, with Klopp obviously having the inferior team quality-wise. But it's his league performances this season which has me ranking Ancelotti above him. I don't think Ancelotti would ever allow his team to perform so poorly in the league, even if he were managing a team with the quality of Borussia Dortmund this season.
    On the flip side Dortmund's resurgence has been impressive, didn't they have about 9/10 games unbeaten until recently?
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

This forum is supported by:
Updated: May 12, 2015
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.