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Hravan
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#721
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#721
(Original post by sa00109102)
Since Satanism to me isn't remotely related in modern society to Paganism, can someone tell me why exactly you choose to put folklore labels and names to the esoteric elements of the natural world? Why don't you just appreciate and revere nature much as any scientist would? I considered joining OBOD last year, but I cannot fathom the general logic of Paganism anymore. Thanks for any help.

(Original post by Hravan)
I've just said about this in the question thread but paganism does not have anything to do with nature. Now certain pagan religions might be nature-based, but paganism is not. Because paganism is an umbrella term that covers a huge number of different religions and paths.

Now if there's a specific pagan religion you want to apply your question to, then I could possibly help out.

OK, I've decided to answer this based upon my own beliefs.

I don't really understand what you mean by "folklore labels" so I'm just going to leave that unless you wish to clarify what you meant. Also don't really understand what you mean by " names to the esoteric elements of the natural world", so again leaving that.

So onto: "Why don't you just appreciate and revere nature much as any scientist would? "

Firstly, I don't think all scientists do, but whatever.

I don't appreciate or revere nature. Nature is there and we're a part of it because that's how it is. Nature doesn't have anything to do with how I worship my gods. It has a bit of an effect on my witchcraft in as much as I do tend to take the moon phrase into account (not always though). If I've picked any plants to use in spells then I will leave an offering for the spirit of that area to say thank you, just because it's good manners. But that's about it.
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sa00109102
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#722
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#722
(Original post by DeathGuardElite)
Aye i love playing as Rome if i play as a Barbarian faction i normally play as a Germanic faction but i also play as Greek factions normally either Sparta or Macedon. i am in College atm :P i've done 3 years in college XD i dont fancy going to sixth form i feel as if i'm too old for it :/



lol i love the fact i can happily trust you will give a much better and more friendly response then i.
I am 21, how old are you? I always do prefer the 'Barbarian' factions. Especially the Celtic/Gaulish ones.
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DeathGuardElite
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#723
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#723
(Original post by sa00109102)
I am 21, how old are you? I always do prefer the 'Barbarian' factions. Especially the Celtic/Gaulish ones.
I'm 18 XD
I prefer the more civilized factions namely cause of my command style is not suited to unprofessional soldiers.
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sa00109102
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#724
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(Original post by Hravan)
OK, I've decided to answer this based upon my own beliefs.

I don't really understand what you mean by "folklore labels" so I'm just going to leave that unless you wish to clarify what you meant. Also don't really understand what you mean by " names to the esoteric elements of the natural world", so again leaving that.

So onto: "Why don't you just appreciate and revere nature much as any scientist would? "

Firstly, I don't think all scientists do, but whatever.

I don't appreciate or revere nature. Nature is there and we're a part of it because that's how it is. Nature doesn't have anything to do with how I worship my gods. It has a bit of an effect on my witchcraft in as much as I do tend to take the moon phrase into account (not always though). If I've picked any plants to use in spells then I will leave an offering for the spirit of that area to say thank you, just because it's good manners. But that's about it.
Alright. Well I can clarify my points, but won't. Seems in relation to you personally, I need to change the whole basis of my conversation (seems Wicca and Paganism as a general 'branch' are different). I hope you don't mind my enquiring, I absolutely love religions of all sorts, spiritualism and naturalism etc. To what degree do you value and trust scientific teaching? As I'm sure you can imagine why someone would be confused by you stating that you leave "offerings" and deal in what I presume is actually MagicK? I read much on Crystal therapy, but to be honest, my conclusion was that outside of the placebo effect, there was no actual science... Feel free to refer me to a decent website; I don't want to take a lot of your energy!
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DeathGuardElite
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#725
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#725
(Original post by sa00109102)
Alright. Well I can clarify my points, but won't. Seems in relation to you personally, I need to change the whole basis of my conversation (seems Wicca and Paganism as a general 'branch' are different). I hope you don't mind my enquiring, I absolutely love religions of all sorts, spiritualism and naturalism etc. To what degree do you value and trust scientific teaching? As I'm sure you can imagine why someone would be confused by you stating that you leave "offerings" and deal in what I presume is actually MagicK? I read much on Crystal therapy, but to be honest, my conclusion was that outside of the placebo effect, there was no actual science... Feel free to refer me to a decent website; I don't want to take a lot of your energy!
Wicca is part of Paganism mate :P
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Hravan
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(Original post by sa00109102)
Alright. Well I can clarify my points, but won't. Seems in relation to you personally, I need to change the whole basis of my conversation (seems Wicca and Paganism as a general 'branch' are different). I hope you don't mind my enquiring, I absolutely love religions of all sorts, spiritualism and naturalism etc.
Enquire away. I may sound a bit pissed off sometimes but that's more to do with the fact that a lot of the time I end up repeating things (such as the definition of paganism, I've just put it in the ask a pagan thread but it might be easier to carry on the conversation here so if you want to reply to the post I put over there, I don't mind you quoting it here) so I go on auto-pilot .
Wicca is a pagan religion but there are loads of different pagan religions apart from Wicca.

To what degree do you value and trust scientific teaching?
Science is fine by me.

As I'm sure you can imagine why someone would be confused by you stating that you leave "offerings" and deal in what I presume is actually MagicK? I read much on Crystal therapy, but to be honest, my conclusion was that outside of the placebo effect, there was no actual science... Feel free to refer me to a decent website; I don't want to take a lot of your energy!
No, magic. I hate the spelling magick. Just makes me think of the "I've read a Silver Ravenwolf book and I'm so cool and mysterious and going to rebel against the world and practise magick!" fluffy bunny teenagers and it annoys me.
(I get that a lot of people use that spelling so it doesn't get confused with stage magic or with Harry Potter magic (for example) but I tend to think that the people I'm talking to are intelligent enough to understand that my magic has nothing to do with Harry Potter or with stage magicians. )

I leave offerings because I've taken something. By offerings it could be something as simple as an apple core (well, half-eaten apple, I never eat much) so that it can then decompose and then that might help the plant regrow, or animals or whatever.

Crystals.
My view on crystal healing is that I cannot understand how something that has such a destructive mining process (not just environmental either, the conditions for the workers are terrible) could ever be used for healing.
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sa00109102
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#727
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(Original post by Hravan)
Enquire away. I may sound a bit pissed off sometimes but that's more to do with the fact that a lot of the time I end up repeating things (such as the definition of paganism, I've just put it in the ask a pagan thread but it might be easier to carry on the conversation here so if you want to reply to the post I put over there, I don't mind you quoting it here) so I go on auto-pilot .
Wicca is a pagan religion but there are loads of different pagan religions apart from Wicca.



Science is fine by me.



No, magic. I hate the spelling magick. Just makes me think of the "I've read a Silver Ravenwolf book and I'm so cool and mysterious and going to rebel against the world and practise magick!" fluffy bunny teenagers and it annoys me.
(I get that a lot of people use that spelling so it doesn't get confused with stage magic or with Harry Potter magic (for example) but I tend to think that the people I'm talking to are intelligent enough to understand that my magic has nothing to do with Harry Potter or with stage magicians. )

I leave offerings because I've taken something. By offerings it could be something as simple as an apple core (well, half-eaten apple, I never eat much) so that it can then decompose and then that might help the plant regrow, or animals or whatever.

Crystals.
My view on crystal healing is that I cannot understand how something that has such a destructive mining process (not just environmental either, the conditions for the workers are terrible) could ever be used for healing.
I shall respond in this way, and you tell me whether I'm using too much space/being a nuisance. Hehe. "Science is fine by me. " Do you think that any element of science would refute what you believe and practice? As many Atheists have disputed magic and Pagan monotheism before.
"No, magic. I hate the spelling magick. Just makes me think of the "I've read a Silver Ravenwolf book and I'm so cool and mysterious and going to rebel against the world and practise magick!" fluffy bunny teenagers and it annoys me.
(I get that a lot of people use that spelling so it doesn't get confused with stage magic or with Harry Potter magic (for example) but I tend to think that the people I'm talking to are intelligent enough to understand that my magic has nothing to do with Harry Potter or with stage magicians. )"


I thought I read somewhere that there was a differenc between magic and 'Magick' (there is in Satanism). That being said - what do you mean, when you say "magic"? I understand that Witches (is that the term for yourself) used to practice magic in that they'd use herbalism for healing etc. and potions of various uses - but isn't that refuted by modern medicine?
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sa00109102
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#728
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#728
Unfortunately I have to format my reply somewhat strangely, because for whatever reason my 'Enter' key doesn't work on this forum...
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Hravan
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#729
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#729
(Original post by sa00109102)
I shall respond in this way, and you tell me whether I'm using too much space/being a nuisance. Hehe. "Science is fine by me. " Do you think that any element of science would refute what you believe and practice? As many Atheists have disputed magic and Pagan monotheism before.
I'm a polytheist, not a monotheist so can't answer your last point. Honestly, I have found anything in science that refutes what I believe.


"No, magic. I hate the spelling magick. Just makes me think of the "I've read a Silver Ravenwolf book and I'm so cool and mysterious and going to rebel against the world and practise magick!" fluffy bunny teenagers and it annoys me.
(I get that a lot of people use that spelling so it doesn't get confused with stage magic or with Harry Potter magic (for example) but I tend to think that the people I'm talking to are intelligent enough to understand that my magic has nothing to do with Harry Potter or with stage magicians. )"


I thought I read somewhere that there was a differenc between magic and 'Magick' (there is in Satanism). That being said - what do you mean, when you say "magic"? I understand that Witches (is that the term for yourself) used to practice magic in that they'd use herbalism for healing etc. and potions of various uses - but isn't that refuted by modern medicine?
Magic.... Right, imagine there is a giant web of energy which connects everything on Earth. My form of magic is focusing energy along that web to try to make it manifest into the outcome I wish. It's hard to explain, I know.

As for herbs for healing, not all of it has been refuted by modern medicine. In fact, plenty of modern medicines come from herbs. I'm not an idiot, I have several different reference books and triple-check things on the internet (and not fluffy websites) and have extensive notes of my own on the effects and results I get.
By using herbs I do mean something as simple as drinking camomile tea before I go to bed rather than getting sleeping tablets from the doctor. It might not have as strong as an effect as sleeping tablets (it calms me down rather than making me sleepy) but it's better than sleeping for 28 hours solid and waking up still tired which is what happened when I had sleeping tablets from the doctor. (Seriously, what kind of doctor gives tablets that strong to a suicidal depressed person? )

But if I'm being honest, if I'm at work and my hips or ankle start playing up then I will find whatever painkillers are in the first aid kit and take them. I walk about 10 miles a day at work, I will take painkillers if I need to rather than suffer until I get home.
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sa00109102
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#730
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#730
(Original post by Hravan)
I'm a polytheist, not a monotheist so can't answer your last point. Honestly, I have found anything in science that refutes what I believe.


"No, magic. I hate the spelling magick. Just makes me think of the "I've read a Silver Ravenwolf book and I'm so cool and mysterious and going to rebel against the world and practise magick!" fluffy bunny teenagers and it annoys me.
(I get that a lot of people use that spelling so it doesn't get confused with stage magic or with Harry Potter magic (for example) but I tend to think that the people I'm talking to are intelligent enough to understand that my magic has nothing to do with Harry Potter or with stage magicians. )"


I thought I read somewhere that there was a differenc between magic and 'Magick' (there is in Satanism). That being said - what do you mean, when you say "magic"? I understand that Witches (is that the term for yourself) used to practice magic in that they'd use herbalism for healing etc. and potions of various uses - but isn't that refuted by modern medicine?
Magic.... Right, imagine there is a giant web of energy which connects everything on Earth. My form of magic is focusing energy along that web to try to make it manifest into the outcome I wish. It's hard to explain, I know.

When I said "monotheism" I meant polytheism, sorry. Perhaps you could expand on that, then? I am starting to see and think from your point of view, now. All I really want to poke your brain on is the magic element. I understand that voicing this is somewhat challenging, but it's THE key to my getting why someone may want to practice being a modern Witch. How do you harness this magic; is it physical? Is there science to back up what you're trying to explain? Or is it more a mental imaginative belief/creation? (I don't want to patronise you).
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Hravan
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#731
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#731
(Original post by sa00109102)

When I said "monotheism" I meant polytheism, sorry. Perhaps you could expand on that, then?
Expand how? I believe there are many different gods and they are gods in their own right, not as aspects of a whole.

I am starting to see and think from your point of view, now. All I really want to poke your brain on is the magic element. I understand that voicing this is somewhat challenging, but it's THE key to my getting why someone may want to practice being a modern Witch. How do you harness this magic; is it physical? Is there science to back up what you're trying to explain? Or is it more a mental imaginative belief/creation? (I don't want to patronise you).
I'm going to have to come back to this as I don't have the energy to answer this right now. It might be a few days, or even a few weeks until I can answer it but tomorrow I'll dig up some references for you if you would like? And then when I have the spoons, I'll answer it with how I view it.
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sa00109102
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#732
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#732
(Original post by Hravan)
Expand how? I believe there are many different gods and they are gods in their own right, not as aspects of a whole.



I'm going to have to come back to this as I don't have the energy to answer this right now. It might be a few days, or even a few weeks until I can answer it but tomorrow I'll dig up some references for you if you would like? And then when I have the spoons, I'll answer it with how I view it.
I would love that and would be very happy to continue the conversation in your own time. Thank you for replying so far - - - it has been enlightening already. I crave sleep now also, my eyes are throbbing, hehe. Good night.
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Bexsqueak
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#733
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#733
(Original post by DeathGuardElite)
np :P
Yep he is also i have decided to return to Roman Paganism I cant wait to celebrate Saturnalia its gonna be fun XD
Ooh, saturnalia, isnt that where roman boys traditionally chased girls through the woods XD ? Sounds like fun haha
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DeathGuardElite
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#734
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#734
(Original post by Bexsqueak)
Ooh, saturnalia, isnt that where roman boys traditionally chased girls through the woods XD ? Sounds like fun haha
lol its far more then that :P it has parties role reversals Masters become servants and servants become masters clothing is more relaxed XD for a week
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Bexsqueak
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#735
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#735
(Original post by DeathGuardElite)
lol its far more then that :P it has parties role reversals Masters become servants and servants become masters clothing is more relaxed XD for a week
That sounds great anything involving parties sounds gd to me
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DeathGuardElite
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#736
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#736
(Original post by Bexsqueak)
That sounds great anything involving parties sounds gd to me
its a week of partying drinking and feasting XD and ofcourse role reversal :P Masters working for the servants XD
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TheKingOfTSR
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#737
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#737
(Original post by DeathGuardElite)
its a week of partying drinking and feasting XD and ofcourse role reversal :P Masters working for the servants XD
Norse paganism didn't have all these?
You gave up your Norse beliefs to get some party time during Saturnalia?
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DeathGuardElite
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#738
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#738
(Original post by TheKingOfTSR)
Norse paganism didn't have all these?
You gave up your Norse beliefs to get some party time during Saturnalia?
I didn't give up on my norse beliefs as i was mainly looking at norse paganism and thought i would pick it but i decided to just return to Rome tbh easier.
Also atm if you have any questions please do not direct them to me i have well a personal problem irl that may change my life permanently.
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TheKingOfTSR
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#739
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#739
(Original post by DeathGuardElite)
I didn't give up on my norse beliefs as i was mainly looking at norse paganism and thought i would pick it but i decided to just return to Rome tbh easier.
Also atm if you have any questions please do not direct them to me i have well a personal problem irl that may change my life permanently.
Oh yes, partying is easier

I hope you'll be okay. Pray to your gods...they might do something about it .
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DeathGuardElite
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#740
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#740
(Original post by TheKingOfTSR)
Oh yes, partying is easier

I hope you'll be okay. Pray to your gods...they might do something about it .
its easier in terms i am more adapt in their names thats why i never actually set on being a pagan with a group i have to adjust to as i am very very very bad with names.

I hope i will be too :/ just quite stressed
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