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    (Original post by Darth Vader 7)
    The second Tottenham game was down to Vermaelen imo. Schalke was down to the whole team being diabolical and our RB/LBs were at fault for the majority of our problems. I dont understand how you can really criticise a player for conceding against Bayern (even then, I don't remember why it was specifically his fault). West Brom was his first red card in his career wasn't it? I think we can forgive him for that.

    He is a far superior player to Vermaelen. There's no doubt that we've been better defensively ever since Vermaelen has been dropped. Koscielny and Mertesacker are a very good partnership. Why do you think Vermaelen has been dropped instead of Mertesacker? No coincidence that we've been better defensively.

    Tbh, our defending isn't as bad as it's made out. We've conceded the second least goals in the PL this season. Our problem isn't the back but more to do with the lack of a class striker that wins you games against Norwich away, Everton home etc.
    The second tottenham game 1st goal was mert 2nd vermaelen, on the first one mertesacker was the only one who didnt push up and played them onside cut dry his fault and schalke he went walkies leaving acres in behind himself (same as the 1st tottenham game when cuntebayor scored early doors)

    Its no co-incidence we have been better since vermaelen has been dropped but it is about a new attitude and attention to defending (after the bayern 3-1 and then getting humiliated against tottenham with our defending) just as much as it is the personnel, mertesacker has done pretty well this season but I think we all know who the better defender is when vermaelen is on form and I dont see why vermaelen and koscielny couldnt work as a pair if they worked at it

    and zurich we have had the vermaelen debate a couple of times i seem to remember so I wont go through my views all over again but you shouldn't single him out vs Bayern as worse when he was at left back
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    world class defending...
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    (Original post by yaboy)


    world class defending...

    Lol. We scored 2 goals back, in the space of three mins in that match.
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    (Original post by yaboy)
    world class defending...
    Vermaelen lets Gerrard(?) get the pass away to Henderson, Mertesacker makes an error with his lunge, Santos does sweet fa and Szczesny palms it straight back to Henderson. That goal had a catalogue of errors and it's rather desperate that you are trying to pin that onto Mertesacker.
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    (Original post by imthe12)
    Lol. We scored 2 goals back, in the space of three mins in that match.
    does not change the fact it was shocking defending though does it. Better teams wouldn't of let us back in the game (chelsea)


    (Original post by Darth Vader 7)
    Vermaelen lets Gerrard(?) get the pass away to Henderson, Mertesacker makes an error with his lunge, Santos does sweet fa and Szczesny palms it straight back to Henderson. That goal had a catalogue of errors and it's rather desperate that you are trying to pin that onto Mertesacker.
    how is it, it was his mistake that was the crucial one in the end plus the fact he decided to walk back doesn't help him a lot.
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    [QUOTE=yaboy;42399748]does not change the fact it was shocking defending though does it. Better teams wouldn't of let us back in the game (chelsea)


    Yh they would , chelsea scored 2 last year and we ended up scoring 5. (5-3)
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    (Original post by alexsong)
    The second tottenham game 1st goal was mert 2nd vermaelen, on the first one mertesacker was the only one who didnt push up and played them onside cut dry his fault and schalke he went walkies leaving acres in behind himself (same as the 1st tottenham game when cuntebayor scored early doors)

    Its no co-incidence we have been better since vermaelen has been dropped but it is about a new attitude and attention to defending (after the bayern 3-1 and then getting humiliated against tottenham with our defending) just as much as it is the personnel, mertesacker has done pretty well this season but I think we all know who the better defender is when vermaelen is on form and I dont see why vermaelen and koscielny couldnt work as a pair if they worked at it

    and zurich we have had the vermaelen debate a couple of times i seem to remember so I wont go through my views all over again but you shouldn't single him out vs Bayern as worse when he was at left back
    Imo, the offside trap is a lot better when we have Mertesacker and Koscielny. Mertesacker gives the orders and Koscielny listens to them. Vermaelen on the other hand seems to have a lot of attitude on the pitch. Him and Mertesacker just don't seem on the same wave length most of the time.

    When was the last time Vermaelen was on form? 3 years ago? Has been average ever since he came back from his injury. Good third choice CB no doubt but I won't be too upset if he's sold.

    Koscielny and Vermaelen don't seem to work. I remember when we went on a our 7 game win streak last season, they were our CB pairing then but we also were the first team in PL football to win a game from 1-0 down 4 times in a row. That partnership was constantly bailed out by the good form of Rosicky and Walcott IIRC.

    Koscielny is easily our best CB but Mertesacker complements him so much more than Vermaelen.
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    To add to the conversation, of course Mert is slow and has a huge turning circle, but his positioning really is very good, and along with his tactical awareness is why he's a very good CB. Mertesacker and Koscielny really is our best CB pairing imo, and I don't think it's a coincidence that since Vermaelen has been dropped we've been a lot more defensively sound.

    One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that I think the way we've been defending recently has been a big part of the reason as to why Mertesacker has been looking better. Earlier on we defended quite high, and this obviously plays to his weaknesses, leaving too much room in behind him is just diabolical. Recently I think we've been more compact and the defensive line has been somewhat deeper, which clearly helps and which is why Mertesacker has looked more like the quality defender he is imo.
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    (Original post by imthe12)


    Yh they would , chelsea scored 2 last year and we ended up scoring 5. (5-3)
    no chelsea were a bad team last year thats why they finished 6th.
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    (Original post by yaboy)
    no chelsea were a bad team last year thats why they finished 6th.
    Fair enough, still ain't worked out who you support?
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    [QUOTE=imthe12;42399811]
    (Original post by yaboy)
    does not change the fact it was shocking defending though does it. Better teams wouldn't of let us back in the game (chelsea)


    Yh they would , chelsea scored 2 last year and we ended up scoring 5. (5-3)
    We were pretty **** last year and AVB thought it'd be cool to play a high line with terry/ivan defence against walcott and gervinho...
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    (Original post by imthe12)
    Fair enough, still ain't worked out who you support?
    arsenal but clearly not a fan of metersacker
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    Is it just me that feels we sign players which no-one else is really in for? Mertesacker has a hundred or so caps for Germany, yet he has Hannover and WB to his CV? Podolski probably was a better player when Bayern went for him - maybe that was his peak and no other big club has been in for such an experienced German international star after that. Can't imagine who would have been in for Gervinho or Giroud.
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    (Original post by nosaer)
    Is it just me that feels we sign players which no-one else is really in for? Mertesacker has a hundred or so caps for Germany, yet he has Hannover and WB to his CV? Podolski probably was a better player when Bayern went for him - maybe that was his peak and no other big club has been in for such an experienced German international star after that. Can't imagine who would have been in for Gervinho or Giroud.
    Man Utd were also in for Podolski, and Klopp was trying to come up with the funds to bring him to Dortmund in 2011. Bayern/Chelsea were in for Giroud but apparently he wanted to play for Wenger(+his best mate is Koscielny). Mertesackers home town club was Hannover and Bremem were Bundesliga Champions around the time they bought him. Could also add that Cazorla turned down Real before joining us as well.

    In general Wenger tries to avoid getting into bidding wars with rivals, hard to get value for money once Chelsea/City/PSG start throwing cash around.
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    (Original post by nosaer)
    Is it just me that feels we sign players which no-one else is really in for? Mertesacker has a hundred or so caps for Germany, yet he has Hannover and WB to his CV? Podolski probably was a better player when Bayern went for him - maybe that was his peak and no other big club has been in for such an experienced German international star after that. Can't imagine who would have been in for Gervinho or Giroud.
    thats probably because when bigger clubs come in we get outbid
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    Barcey Lasanga we don't bite, unlike some clubs I know...
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    Bit late but - in.

    Of course Wenger goes for people who no one else seems to spot (usually), it allows him to go lower as a result of the lack of competition. He's also found so many gems that way.
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    (Original post by nosaer)
    Is it just me that feels we sign players which no-one else is really in for? Mertesacker has a hundred or so caps for Germany, yet he has Hannover and WB to his CV? Podolski probably was a better player when Bayern went for him - maybe that was his peak and no other big club has been in for such an experienced German international star after that. Can't imagine who would have been in for Gervinho or Giroud.
    This seems to be a cheap argument, if a common-used one, against Wenger. People said as we were signing Cazorla that "he can't be that great, otherwise why aren't bigger clubs in for him?" The answer was partly that other big clubs already had indisplacable players in the AM position (Silva, Mata, Kagawa just signed by Utd, also Rooney to play behind RVP, Ozil). Often players are also underrated. Wenger's signings should be judged on their performances, not on how much the media was able to dramatise the transfer process or how large the fee was.
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    This seems to be a cheap argument, if a common-used one, against Wenger. People said as we were signing Cazorla that "he can't be that great, otherwise why aren't bigger clubs in for him?" The answer was partly that other big clubs already had indisplacable players in the AM position (Silva, Mata, Kagawa just signed by Utd, also Rooney to play behind RVP, Ozil). Often players are also underrated. Wenger's signings should be judged on their performances, not on how much the media was able to dramatise the transfer process or how large the fee was.
    Can't agree with you enough

    'We make superstars not buy them'

    Even the players we're linked to now arent exactly some of the best although are great like jovetic
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    (Original post by yaboy)
    comfortably???

    you mad? wont be surprised if qpr beat us and we draw at newcastle
    I think we can. A lot depends in tomorrow.

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