TSR Med Students' Society Part VI

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    (Original post by frogs r everywhere)
    Thye must be very rich to pay such high fees.
    They... are? £250,000 is on the higher end of the scale but well within ballpark range - Cambridge is £273,000-£288,000 over 6 years for instance (just fees not living costs).

    Did you mean something else?

    (Original post by Beska)
    Lots of interesting (referenced) analysis on the JDCF - basically it's codswollop. The figure is nowhere near that high (and includes what we pay) and is given to hospitals and there is absolutely no paper trail on how that money is spent - i.e., it is absolutely not a cold day in hell's chance it is spent on medical education. It's instead spent to prop up service provision.
    Interesting, if predictable.

    Do you have an easy link to hand? The forum has kicked off and there's a lot of posts and comments to sort through... edit: hang on found it.

    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    Will not be surprised if these 1500 extra places magically turn out to be at Buckingham, UCLan, etc.*
    I think you might be onto something.
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    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    Will not be surprised if these 1500 extra places magically turn out to be at Buckingham, UCLan, etc.*
    This is my issue, where are these places miraculously going to come from, surely most medical schools will be reluctant initially to increase the number of places they offer (especially at medical schools where staff and facilities are stretched already!).

    I have a feeling you're right here.
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    (Original post by frogs r everywhere)
    Thye must be very rich to pay such high fees.
    i'm not rich
    well.. my parents did saved up alot for me to come here soo you can say its an eternal debt to them.
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    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    Will not be surprised if these 1500 extra places magically turn out to be at Buckingham, UCLan, etc.*
    I also had this conversation today. If you go off the £250k mark, paying for students to go to a private medical school would seemingly cost the government the same amount of money. Easier than trying to find space for 25% more at existing schools
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    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    Will not be surprised if these 1500 extra places magically turn out to be at Buckingham, UCLan, etc.*
    Yup, definitely this. Question becomes then, will state subsidise "poorer" students and how will this affect training for others on their level?

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    (Original post by Natalierm2707)
    This is my issue, where are these places miraculously going to come from, surely most medical schools will be reluctant initially to increase the number of places they offer (especially at medical schools where staff and facilities are stretched already!).

    I have a feeling you're right here.
    Schools can be created, hospitals?

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Schools can be created, hospitals?

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    But can they by 2018? Sure, a gradual rise over the next few years, or an increase by 2020, but there isn't that much time to be creating new medical schools. Or drastically increasing the size of current ones.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Schools can be created, hospitals?

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    Thats what I mean, the issue of a school being created (other than financially of course) isn't to big, its having the access to a decent sized hospital and surrounding clinics which have adequate facilities to take on a large number of medical students and sufficiently train them. Most medical schools run linked to large teaching hospitals (or in many cases a few teaching hospitals), which have facilities for these students... I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.
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    (Original post by ForestCat)
    But can they by 2018? Sure, a gradual rise over the next few years, or an increase by 2020, but there isn't that much time to be creating new medical schools. Or drastically increasing the size of current ones.

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    By 2018? Probably not, but I could picture a proposal to create a small scale medical school, they'd be familiar with the syllabus, need only buy equipment and hey presto, you could start taking students in 2019. Heck, they could go digital or PBL. Minimal contact time.

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    (Original post by Natalierm2707)
    Thats what I mean, the issue of a school being created (other than financially of course) isn't to big, its having the access to a decent sized hospital and surrounding clinics which have adequate facilities to take on a large number of medical students and sufficiently train them. Most medical schools run linked to large teaching hospitals (or in many cases a few teaching hospitals), which have facilities for these students... I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.
    Is it that simple though? What curriculum would these schools use? Create their own (which isn't quick) and then have to get it past the GMC, or buy one from an existing med school?

    Who is going to deliver this teaching? Medical schools aren't small departments. Are you going to staff it with all academic staff, or clinicians too. Are you going to be pulling clinicians away from the front line nhs service and thus compounding staff shortages?

    Who is going to teach clinical skills? If your local hospital doesn't have an appropriate and large enough centre, you're going to have to do it in house. That means an expensive out lay for a suitable building and equipment, plus staff.

    Hunt has gone for the big headline again but doesn't have half a ****s idea about how to implement it.

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    (Original post by Natalierm2707)
    Thats what I mean, the issue of a school being created (other than financially of course) isn't to big, its having the access to a decent sized hospital and surrounding clinics which have adequate facilities to take on a large number of medical students and sufficiently train them. Most medical schools run linked to large teaching hospitals (or in many cases a few teaching hospitals), which have facilities for these students... I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.
    The simple answer is that everyone else just squishes over, new hospitals won't be built to accommodate so actual clinic time will fall. Placements will have less teaching and more free roaming.

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    (Original post by Natalierm2707)
    I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.
    I don't think its his style to think that far ahead.
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    (Original post by ForestCat)
    Is it that simple though? What curriculum would these schools use? Create their own (which isn't quick) and then have to get it past the GMC, or buy one from an existing med school?

    Who is going to deliver this teaching? Medical schools aren't small departments. Are you going to staff it with all academic staff, or clinicians too. Are you going to be pulling clinicians away from the front line nhs service and thus compounding staff shortages?

    Who is going to teach clinical skills? If your local hospital doesn't have an appropriate and large enough centre, you're going to have to do it in house. That means an expensive out lay for a suitable building and equipment, plus staff.

    Hunt has gone for the big headline again but doesn't have half a ****s idea about how to implement it.

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    I foresee private firms offering to "teach" medical students at university, so the uni outsources to a firm who hires medical students or other healthcare professionals to run it, rather than clinical staff.

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    (Original post by ForestCat)
    Is it that simple though? What curriculum would these schools use? Create their own (which isn't quick) and then have to get it past the GMC, or buy one from an existing med school?

    Who is going to deliver this teaching? Medical schools aren't small departments. Are you going to staff it with all academic staff, or clinicians too. Are you going to be pulling clinicians away from the front line nhs service and thus compounding staff shortages?

    Who is going to teach clinical skills? If your local hospital doesn't have an appropriate and large enough centre, you're going to have to do it in house. That means an expensive out lay for a suitable building and equipment, plus staff.

    Hunt has gone for the big headline again but doesn't have half a ****s idea about how to implement it.

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    No you are so right, it is nowhere near that simple.

    I personally do think some medical schools might increase their intake slightly (were talking by like 10-20 students) as this may be possible for some, but for others there is no chance.
    like you said it takes years to develop a medical school with a good curriculum, placement accessibility, adequate teaching staff both in academics and clinicians and have good enough equiptment and resources to get students to graduating level. If you look at most medical schools today it has taken years for them to get to where they are now, I dont think hunt really has a clue.
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    I have a Developmental Paediatric OSCE tomorrow! On the wards as opposed to in a Developmental Clinic due to consultant time-constraints.

    I've been told it's mainly history based talking to the parent(s). Asking about the pregnancy of course. Would you really expect mum to know whether previous developmental milestones were on-time. i.e. "What age did they start crawling?". Things like pincer grasp could be hard to get from history.


    Rather unsure what to expect I know my developmental milestones for the relevant ages (6 months to 4 years). I would have got the child to play with toys in an area of open space but that's unpractical in a bay of six.

    Examination wise- Tone, Arm & Leg reflexes. Hypermobile joints?
    Then there is: Gross Motor, Fine Motor, Speech/Language/Hearing & Social categories. They'll likely be mainly history based questions due to space constraints/inappropriate setting (And they are unwell children as they are inpatients for other things).
    Does this sound reasonable? Only one I have to do in the entirety of medical school and had very little tips on what exactly I should be doing....

    I'm overthinking this but it's an important OSCE! To the level of an F1.
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    The referendum vote made me slightly concerned about my future as a future doctor trained in the EU with potentially more obstacles to get back home if I were to want to move back for whatever reason. Now I'm back to being quite content with my path, given the 4 year nonsense! How utterly absurd.
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    Really disappointed in everything I am reading so far, what a great time to join medical school
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    If you were looking to scale rapidly, you could probably convert a few 3 year Biomed courses into '3 year preclinical' courses (a la St Andrews) quite easily, and then ship the students to clinical schools wherever there's spare capacity. Couple that with seriously reduced expectations of the quality of clinical teaching, a big boost to the Bucks/UCLan/etc private schools, the establishment of two or three brand new medical schools, and die-back of EU and international students due to increased fees (which would delight the home office and their migration targets, no doubt), and you could just about manage it within 5 years.
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    (Original post by Zain-A)
    Really disappointed in everything I am reading so far, what a great time to join medical school
    Its great to feel that your decision to apply to medical school and join the profession with the most respect and value as an employee when the government sees you as an expensive, arrogant, underworked, selfish waste of oxygen.....and the public starts too as well.

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    Is the max you're allowed out of programme after the FP prior to CMT two years? Is that right?
 
 
 
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