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    (Original post by Zürich)
    lol your entire team is built around Fellaini FFS :laugh:
    strong understanding of the conversation
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    (Original post by difeo)
    what do you disagree with exactly
    Carrick > Coquelin
    Herrera = Ramsey
    Mata > Cazorla
    Di Maria = Sanchez

    ok.. lets start with carrick > coq

    tackles per game:
    Coq - 3.5
    Carrick - 1.4

    Interceptions
    Coq - 3.8
    Carrick - 1.7

    Clearances
    Coq - 3.7
    Carrick - 2

    I would agree with you that carricks offensive game is far better then coqs, he gets dispossessed less, has better distribution, better key passes etc. - but thats because you are comparing a CM to a CDM.

    Its quite simple with these 2, carrick is the better alround central player.. but coq is by far suppirior defensivly at the moment..

    Overal, and not specifically this season, I would take carrick though

    ---

    Ok next:

    Harrera = ramsey.

    Lol. no.

    Not yet.

    Overal this season ramsey has 8 goals 6 assists, to herrera's 7 and 4, admitadly though, ramsey has played more games.. but he also has more key passess per game then herrera.

    Issue comes that due to injuries and wenger, ramsey has been shoved all over the pitch this season, playing as a defensive midfielder for 11 of his aperances.. and out on the wing for 2. - and yet still posts marginaly better attacking stats then herrera. I will give you that ramsey is dispossesed more though..

    issue here is the same as carrick vs coq - whilst they are close this season.. ramsey has history on his side, and harrera is still only in his first season in the PL, and has only just became a regular (similar to coq) - ramsey though posted: 10 goals and 8 assists last year, dispite injury.. and was one of the best players in the league.

    So overal,

    Ramsey > herrera

    ---

    Next up is the most tricky for me..

    I am a really big mata fan.

    mata: 9 goals, 4 assists, 1.3 key passes, 0.6 sucessful dribbles,

    Cazorla: 7 goals, 10 assists, 2.1 key passes, 2.5 sucessful dribles

    The goals and assists are about equal.. 17 vs 13, but cazorla has played more games..

    But cazorlas contribution to the team is much much larger.

    Tackles: 1.7 for cazorla vs 0.9 for mata
    Interceptions 1 for cazorla vs 0.7 for 0.7 for mata
    Clearances 0.7 for cazorla vs 0.1 for mata


    Those coupled with the suppiror key passess and sucsessfull dribles for cazorla, really does go to show that his alround game, this season has been better then mata.

    Mata, is amazing in the final 3rd, but his stats prop up that his overal game, especially defensivly is really not all that great.

    Cazorla though has posted similar attacking stats, with much better alround game.. DESPITE playing more of his games in a deeper role then mata, often as part of a midfield 2, covering deffensivly.

    So for this season: Cazorla > Mata.

    Overal? I am really not sure.. Mata was amazing at chelsea, but his alround game just has not lived up to his numbers infront of goal. and there is a reason he has been dropped by multiple coaches now.

    ---

    Final one.

    Lol.

    This is where you made me laugh

    In La Liga - Di Maria was better then sanchez. hands down.

    But lets talk about english football here.. They both joined PL clubs for big fees, and they both were given ample starts, playing attacking roles.

    Di Maria: 4 goals, 10 assists, 2.1 key passes, 1.9 successful dribles

    Sanchez: 19 goals, 9 assists, 2.3 key passess, 36. sucessful dribles


    The only negative stat for sanchez is that he gets disspossesed far to much..

    Other then that it is not even close.

    Sanchez form may have dropped in the 2nd half of this season.. but he has still posted absolutly unbelievable 1st season stats, and is rightly nominated for player of the season.

    Di Maria, cant even get in the united team, and has what 1 goal in 2015?

    At present, in the PL, it is un questionably:

    Sanchez > Di Maria

    --

    Now, lets not get into that half these comparisons are innacurate with half of these players playing in different positions, but overal.. I would say that you have hugely over estimated the united players.. and the numbers behind it just dont add up to your evaluations of this season
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Coquelin's had a better season than Carrick uwotm8?
    would say so yeah. debateable though as they play completely different roles.
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    Dunno why you guys didn't see the bait when he said Di Maria > Sanchez
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    x
    So we agree on Carrick-Coq.

    With the others you were keen to bring in defensive stats yet you ignore them completely with Herrera-Ramsey... I wonder why. Because Herrera wins comfortably: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/ander_herrera/126/126/1538/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/aaron_ramsey/126/126/377/0/p#interceptions/blocks/clearances/defensive_errors#90 so given you only put Ramsey slightly above him attacking wise, Herrera's defensive stats make up the difference so Herrera = Ramsey it is.

    Mata-Cazorla is close this season, I'd probably even agree that Cazorla's been better, although you have to remember Mata's been taken in and out of the team, shoved out on the wing etc. But given you used "Ramsey has history on his side" to put him above Herrera, I will do the same to put Mata above Cazorla as surely you agree there's not much of a comparison there.

    Di Maria-Sanchez, well first of all I'd say your goal + assist stats are misleading given Sanchez has played 2400 minutes to Di Maria's 1500. As you can see here http://www.squawka.com/comparison-ma..._take_ons_%#90 Sanchez wins but it's not a huge difference.

    Anyway of course Sanchez has been better this year. But you say yourself Di Maria was hands down better in Spain, where they've both played far longer than England. So I think I was being very fair when I looked at their 3/4 years in Spain, where Di Maria was better, and their one year in England where Sanchez was better, and said they're about equal overall.
    You've decided to dismiss their past and base it just on England because that suits your argument, but how often do we see players at new clubs/in new leagues struggle at first before hitting form? Looking towards next season, which I assumed was the point of the original discussion, I see no reason to laugh at Di Maria being considered about equal to Sanchez.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Dunno why you guys didn't see the bait when he said Di Maria > Sanchez
    Maybe because he didn't say that
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Maybe because he didn't say that
    True that explains it

    dunno why you guys didn't see the bait when he said that Di Maria = Sanchez
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    True that explains it

    dunno why you guys didn't see the bait when he said that Di Maria = Sanchez
    I'd say my reasoning above makes sense

    thoughts on my reasoning
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    (Original post by difeo)
    I'd say my reasoning above makes sensethoughts on my reasoning
    Ashley Young is being played over ADM.

    Lel
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    (Original post by Dr. Django)
    Ashley Young is being played over ADM.

    Lel
    Ashley Young has been one of the best players in the league in the last month
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    (Original post by difeo)
    So we agree on Carrick-Coq.

    With the others you were keen to bring in defensive stats yet you ignore them completely with Herrera-Ramsey... I wonder why. Because Herrera wins comfortably: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/ander_herrera/126/126/1538/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/aaron_ramsey/126/126/377/0/p#interceptions/blocks/clearances/defensive_errors#90 so given you only put Ramsey slightly above him attacking wise, Herrera's defensive stats make up the difference so Herrera = Ramsey it is.

    Mata-Cazorla is close this season, I'd probably even agree that Cazorla's been better, although you have to remember Mata's been taken in and out of the team, shoved out on the wing etc. But given you used "Ramsey has history on his side" to put him above Herrera, I will do the same to put Mata above Cazorla as surely you agree there's not much of a comparison there.

    Di Maria-Sanchez, well first of all I'd say your goal + assist stats are misleading given Sanchez has played 2400 minutes to Di Maria's 1500. As you can see here http://www.squawka.com/comparison-ma..._take_ons_%#90 Sanchez wins but it's not a huge difference.

    Anyway of course Sanchez has been better this year. But you say yourself Di Maria was hands down better in Spain, where they've both played far longer than England. So I think I was being very fair when I looked at their 3/4 years in Spain, where Di Maria was better, and their one year in England where Sanchez was better, and said they're about equal overall.
    You've decided to dismiss their past and base it just on England because that suits your argument, but how often do we see players at new clubs/in new leagues struggle at first before hitting form? Looking towards next season, which I assumed was the point of the original discussion, I see no reason to laugh at Di Maria being considered about equal to Sanchez.
    True, I will give you herrera and ramsey being even for this season - did not realise herrerra had posted that good defensive stats.

    Cazorla + mata is a tricky one.. Because of matas team change..

    I mean looking at them in the PL, cazorla had one good season, then an average one, and now another good one..

    Mata had 2 very good seasons, then changed clubs, and since has been average ranging to good.

    I would certianly say that mata at his best has been better then cazorla.. but, due to fault of his own or not, cazorla has been better (marginally) for 2 seasons now.. so I am still giving that one to him.

    --

    As for your final point, the reason I kept it to PL, was not because it suited MY arguement.. but because it suited THE arguement.

    We are comparing the two midfields of two clubs who play in the PL, and english competitions (not CL this year, as united are not in it)

    It is all about who has the best midfield.. arsenal or united.

    It does not matter how good di maria was for madrid.. because if he is not playing like that for united, well then, its its not very relivant to how good a midfield united have.. bar a small note about his history (as I included)

    --

    A bigger mis-step in this is your non-inclusion of ozil.. who is a guarenteed first XI midfielder for arsenal, and has been on great form since his return from injury..

    And also missing out fellani, who has been pretty good for united this season..

    Then ignoring the multitude of other midfield players..

    Blind, ox, walcott, flamini, arteta, young etc.

    The statement you replied to was who had the best midfield.. Not who has the best 4 players that difeo wants to compare.

    And overal, arsenal have a better midfield in their squad then united do..

    Its closer when you compare the first XI's but even then arsenal win - and when you factor in depth.. we are well ahead.

    ozil, sanchez, walcott, ox, ramsey, wilshire, coq, cazorla, rosicky, arteta, flamini,

    Is a better midfield then

    Di Maria, Mata, young, herrera, felleni, januzaj, carrick, blind,
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    (Original post by difeo)
    I'd say my reasoning above makes sense

    thoughts on my reasoning
    Well, firstly, I was going to put this in my original post but then decided I cba for the discussion, but the idea that Di Maria was hands down better than Sanchez in Spain is wrong. Positionally, they played similar roles and were both subservient to a greater player in the team. And yet during Sanchez's time in Spain, Di Maria produced tallies of 7, 9 and 11 goals, and Alexis produced 15, 11 and 21, with Alexis playing 1.6 games per season more. It must be noted that Di Maria played deeper, as an attacking central midfielder for half a season, and credit has to be given for his great performances in Madrid's CL winning run, but even then that's half a season of consistency. And what distinguished him in the role was his work rate, which is hardly something you can accuse Alexis of not having. Also, it's not as if Alexis didn't perform in the big games for them. He scored a stunning winner in the Clasico, as well as an incredible volley that put them ahead in the title decider on the last day, in the season just gone by. Alexis has always been a player that adds more to teams, and Di Maria has always been known for inconsistency and a lack of end product. And why restrict it to just the time spent in Spain, look at Sanchez's career with Udinese, which is far better than Di Maria's with Benfica, or his first season at Madrid.

    Furthermore, and crucially, we're talking about the 'best midfield in the league'. This league. Performances in THIS league. Aka the relevant parts of their career is their performances in this country. One season isn't a small sample, but I will agree that it's small enough for you to look at past performances as a minor tie breaker. Past performances are never a guarantee of success in the PL, look at Ozil and the jizzfest over him before he arrived ffs, but Sanchez wins anyway. But it's nowhere near relevant enough given that we have a season's evidence of a gaping chasm between both players in this league. You claim 'how often do we see players at new clubs/in new leagues struggle at first before hitting form? ', and yet somehow don't appreciate that there's also a large majority of players that a) don't hit form at all, or b) get a bit of form like Di Maria, and Deco etc did at first and then fail miserably. Why would we class potential form over proven, overwhelming success, like Sanchez to date? It doesn't make sense. The only reason Di Maria has played less minutes is because he's been dismal when he's been on the pitch. Assists are a really poor statistic in general, they're unreliable and largely useless season-on-season, and even then are reliant on the receiver, usually the team's strikers. What's a better indicator of quality is key passes, or key passes+assists which is chances created, and there they're as good as even. And taking it to a statistical discussion isn't really the right way to go about it; it skews in favour of Di Maria who was dropped when he underperformed, as opposed to Sanchez who's been playing through his period of bad form. Now that's an indication of how poorly Di Maria actually started playing. And in any case, in any football discussion, the one thing that takes paramount importance is goals. And it's 3 goals vs 14 this year in the league, 4 vs 20 overall. And I agree that ADM has played deeper at times, but in any discussion about players, goalscorers are always prioritised. It's why strikers and goalscoring attacking midfielders win the Ballon D'Or virtually every year. Because goals are the crux of this sport.

    For the purposes of a 'best midfield in the league' discussion, firstly I wouldn't even involve Alexis because he's more of a forward than a midfielder. But ADM and Sanchez are comparable, and
    Alexis has proven himself tiers above ADM in this league. It's upto ADM to prove himself Alexis' equal in the PL, rather than for you to sit there and pretend that he was better in Spain, and pretend that actually has any major relevance to their performance in England.
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    anyway.. as of right now:

    coq = carrick
    ramsey = herrera
    cazorla > mata
    Sanchez > di maria

    Overal for the past 2 seasons:

    Carrick > coq
    Ramsey > herrera
    Cazorla = mata
    Sanchez = di maria

    And for the teams:
    ozil, sanchez, walcott, ox, ramsey, wilshire, coq, cazorla, rosicky, arteta, flamini,

    >

    Di Maria, Mata, young, herrera, felleni, januzaj, carrick, blind,

    As a midfield as a whole.

    (my feelings on the matter)
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    So if Sanchez = Di Maria, and Young starts over di Maria, that implies Young > Di Maria, which by logical reasoning suggests Young > Sanchez. ****ing lel
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    Carrick's better than Coquelin.
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    Mert has improved since his boy Kos has returned but without him he turns to a shower of ****. Chambers is no where near ready so we definitely need another 3rd choice cb for when Kos gets injured and we need to remove Mert from the starting XI by default. Doesn't have to be a major signing, even a £10mil job on Smalling would be good enough tbh.

    Back up CDM needed too, although I can't see us going big bucks on a player like Sneiderlain now with Coq performing, which is frustrating unless Wilshere plays as CDM when Coq is injured (went quite well for England tbh).

    Need a winger or a striker, Pedro or Dybala would be ideal and then all that's left is a keeper, Lloris or Cech.

    Could also take Sterling off Liverpool's hands for a £25mil +£1 bid...

    Hope Walcott starts against reading, he seems to kill smaller teams.
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    Mata is better than Cazorla too.
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    Would a Gabriel-Chambers defence work?
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    Merte really isn't as bad as people are making out to be. Granted he had a huge dip in form at the start of the season but can you blame him when our back 4 was constantly changing? Games were he's had to adapt to new partnerships out of the blue like Merte + monreal or Merte + Debuchy and Merte + Chambers, 3 defenders he didn't play with (at least not with Monreal CB) the season before. Don't understand why people are using age as an excuse either, he's 30 and doesn't utilise pace to his game, I'm sure he has another 2 years left in the tank..

    But for some reason people wan't to get rid without thought...
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    Gabriel-Chambers wouldn't work, one only has what 5 games pl experience and can't speak English and the other is 19
 
 
 
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