Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AR_95)
    Merte really isn't as bad as people are making out to be. Granted he had a huge dip in form at the start of the season but can you blame him when our back 4 was constantly changing? Games were he's had to adapt to new partnerships out of the blue like Merte + monreal or Merte + Debuchy and Merte + Chambers, 3 defenders he didn't play with (at least not with Monreal CB) the season before. Don't understand why people are using age as an excuse either, he's 30 and doesn't utilise pace to his game, I'm sure he has another 2 years left in the tank..

    But for some reason people wan't to get rid without thought...
    You're completely right, so long as he stays motivated there's no reason why he couldn't play for not just 2 more years, but 4 or 5. I wouldn't want rid of him but without a pacey CB like Kosc next to him he's dead in the water
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by leinad2012)
    So if Sanchez = Di Maria, and Young starts over di Maria, that implies Young > Di Maria, which by logical reasoning suggests Young > Sanchez. ****ing lel
    Young starts over Di Maria because on current form he's better than him, so the logical reasoning is that Young > Sanchez on current form, which is obviously correct.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Man Utd fans butthurt because we are going to overtake them in FA Cups won.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Well, firstly, I was going to put this in my original post but then decided I cba for the discussion, but the idea that Di Maria was hands down better than Sanchez in Spain is wrong. Positionally, they played similar roles and were both subservient to a greater player in the team. And yet during Sanchez's time in Spain, Di Maria produced tallies of 7, 9 and 11 goals, and Alexis produced 15, 11 and 21, with Alexis playing 1.6 games per season more. It must be noted that Di Maria played deeper, as an attacking central midfielder for half a season, and credit has to be given for his great performances in Madrid's CL winning run, but even then that's half a season of consistency. And what distinguished him in the role was his work rate, which is hardly something you can accuse Alexis of not having. Also, it's not as if Alexis didn't perform in the big games for them. He scored a stunning winner in the Clasico, as well as an incredible volley that put them ahead in the title decider on the last day, in the season just gone by. Alexis has always been a player that adds more to teams, and Di Maria has always been known for inconsistency and a lack of end product. And why restrict it to just the time spent in Spain, look at Sanchez's career with Udinese, which is far better than Di Maria's with Benfica, or his first season at Madrid.

    Furthermore, and crucially, we're talking about the 'best midfield in the league'. This league. Performances in THIS league. Aka the relevant parts of their career is their performances in this country. One season isn't a small sample, but I will agree that it's small enough for you to look at past performances as a minor tie breaker. Past performances are never a guarantee of success in the PL, look at Ozil and the jizzfest over him before he arrived ffs, but Sanchez wins anyway. But it's nowhere near relevant enough given that we have a season's evidence of a gaping chasm between both players in this league. You claim 'how often do we see players at new clubs/in new leagues struggle at first before hitting form? ', and yet somehow don't appreciate that there's also a large majority of players that a) don't hit form at all, or b) get a bit of form like Di Maria, and Deco etc did at first and then fail miserably. Why would we class potential form over proven, overwhelming success, like Sanchez to date? It doesn't make sense. The only reason Di Maria has played less minutes is because he's been dismal when he's been on the pitch. Assists are a really poor statistic in general, they're unreliable and largely useless season-on-season, and even then are reliant on the receiver, usually the team's strikers. What's a better indicator of quality is key passes, or key passes+assists which is chances created, and there they're as good as even. And taking it to a statistical discussion isn't really the right way to go about it; it skews in favour of Di Maria who was dropped when he underperformed, as opposed to Sanchez who's been playing through his period of bad form. Now that's an indication of how poorly Di Maria actually started playing. And in any case, in any football discussion, the one thing that takes paramount importance is goals. And it's 3 goals vs 14 this year in the league, 4 vs 20 overall. And I agree that ADM has played deeper at times, but in any discussion about players, goalscorers are always prioritised. It's why strikers and goalscoring attacking midfielders win the Ballon D'Or virtually every year. Because goals are the crux of this sport.

    For the purposes of a 'best midfield in the league' discussion, firstly I wouldn't even involve Alexis because he's more of a forward than a midfielder. But ADM and Sanchez are comparable, and
    Alexis has proven himself tiers above ADM in this league. It's upto ADM to prove himself Alexis' equal in the PL, rather than for you to sit there and pretend that he was better in Spain, and pretend that actually has any major relevance to their performance in England.
    I agree he wasn't hands down better. I think he was better but as Acorns was the one said he was hands down better I wasn't going to ruin my argument by disagreeing lel.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dexa)
    Mata is better than Cazorla too.
    not this season.. or last season. see my posts above.

    For the past 2 seasons cazorla

    has a higher assist tally (16 vs 10)
    More key passes per game
    More succsessfull dribbles per game
    more crosses per game
    more through balls per game
    more tackles per game
    more interceptions per game
    more clearances per game

    Mata has:

    More goals (14 vs 11)
    Higher pass completion (89 vs 86)

    ---

    Goals blind people to matas actual quality.. and his overal game is well well below cazorlas.

    sure, if you go back to his time at chelsea (not his last 6 months) he was far better.. but that was 2 seasons ago now. A lot can change in 2 seasons, and for those seasons, he has been the worse player out of the two, and rightfully has struggled to get into the united team.

    These days cazorla is going through a great patch of form.. has become one of our most versitile and usefull players, playing well in a deeper role, as well as his usuall attacking roles, has proven himself defensivly, and still posts a better combiend total of goals + assists, then mata.

    /arguement
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    anyway.. as of right now:

    coq = carrick
    ramsey = herrera
    cazorla > mata
    Sanchez > di maria

    Overal for the past 2 seasons:

    Carrick > coq
    Ramsey > herrera
    Cazorla = mata
    Sanchez = di maria

    And for the teams:
    ozil, sanchez, walcott, ox, ramsey, wilshire, coq, cazorla, rosicky, arteta, flamini,

    >

    Di Maria, Mata, young, herrera, felleni, januzaj, carrick, blind,

    As a midfield as a whole.

    (my feelings on the matter)
    Well no as of right now it's just:
    Carrick > Coq
    Herrera > Ramsey
    Mata > Cazorla
    Fellaini > Sanchez

    I assume you mean for this season as a whole

    And I said right at the start I was talking about the first choice midfield on paper, so bringing up Fellaini because he's currently playing better than Di Maria, and bringing up the depth, is irrelevant.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by difeo)
    Well no as of right now it's just:
    Carrick > Coq
    Herrera > Ramsey
    Mata > Cazorla
    Fellaini > Sanchez

    I assume you mean for this season as a whole

    And I said right at the start I was talking about the first choice midfield on paper, so bringing up Fellaini because he's currently playing better than Di Maria, and bringing up the depth, is irrelevant.
    You guys may be in good form.. at the moment, but dont get carried away - arsenal have been the in-form side of 2015, and beat both liverpool and man city, just as you guys did.. (as well as beating you, in 2015)

    No way is it as clear as all of your midfield are playing better then ours at the moment. Dont let a few decent wins for united cloud things up.

    + 'midfield on paper' is a useless term. especially as apparently ozil is not in our best midfield on paper according to you..?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by difeo)
    I agree he wasn't hands down better. I think he was better but as Acorns was the one said he was hands down better I wasn't going to ruin my argument by disagreeing lel.
    Well he wasn't better in Spain (considerably worse in reality) and you asked me for thoughts on your reasoning, which was utterly ****.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    You guys may be in good form.. at the moment, but dont get carried away - arsenal have been the in-form side of 2015, and beat both liverpool and man city, just as you guys did.. (as well as beating you, in 2015)

    No way is it as clear as all of your midfield are playing better then ours at the moment. Dont let a few decent wins for united cloud things up.

    + 'midfield on paper' is a useless term. especially as apparently ozil is not in our best midfield on paper according to you..?
    I agree and I'm not getting carried away. But with wins in the last month against Spurs, Liverpool Villa and City with 3 or 4 goals/assists each, apart from Carrick, I think it's pretty clear that they're playing better currently.

    'Midfield on paper' was brought up by AR.
    If you were to include Ozil it would be in place of Cazorla who's been better than him since Ozil arrived in England, so by the same logic as used with Di Maria-Sanchez you have to choose Cazorla over Ozil. You could include Ozil if it was a 5 man midfield as with the 4-1-4-1 you've used before, but there's only 4 in the United midfield so there's no one to compare him to.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zürich)
    lol your entire team is built around Fellaini FFS :laugh:
    Your team is built around a lump of a forward up top too, and he's ****.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by difeo)
    I agree and I'm not getting carried away. But with wins in the last month against Spurs, Liverpool Villa and City with 3 or 4 goals/assists each, apart from Carrick, I think it's pretty clear that they're playing better currently.

    'Midfield on paper' was brought up by AR.
    If you were to include Ozil it would be in place of Cazorla who's been better than him since Ozil arrived in England, so by the same logic as used with Di Maria-Sanchez you have to choose Cazorla over Ozil. You could include Ozil if it was a 5 man midfield as with the 4-1-4-1 you've used before, but there's only 4 in the United midfield so there's no one to compare him to.
    more often then not this season we have had both cazorla and ozil on the pitch together.. combinations like:

    Coq - Cazorla
    Welbeck - Ozil - Sanchez

    Coq
    Ramsey - ozil - cazorla - sanchez

    Coq - Ramsey
    Sanchez - Cazorla - ozil

    etc.

    Its one of the issues with making comparisons with out midfield.. is our midfield changes so much at the moment.

    I understand you guys have had some great results in the last few games - and if you can keep it going against chelsea tommorow, then that will be properly impressive.

    Guess we can wait until our game against each other to see how our now inform midfields fare against each other
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    in reality coquelin is just gonna make elbows and co. look like work experience lads again
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    To think Coquelin is only 5ft 8 and dominated Fellaini
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Scenes when Arsenal fans brag about a win against United when they've been our ***** for years and couldn't beat Moyes
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by difeo)
    Young starts over Di Maria because on current form he's better than him, so the logical reasoning is that Young > Sanchez on current form, which is obviously correct.
    This guys banter is top notch
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by leinad2012)
    This guys banter is top notch
    Are you actually going to claim that Young hasn't been better than Sanchez over the last month? Lol
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by difeo)
    Are you actually going to claim that Young hasn't been better than Sanchez over the last month? Lol

    1 goal and 2 assists in the last month and suddenly he's the best player in the league, this guy

    Comparing stats over the last month (i.e. when Sanchez has been in his worst form and Young at his best ever) and Sanchez only has 1 less assist and does miles more defensively.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Well no as of right now it's just:
    Carrick > Coq
    Herrera > Ramsey
    Mata > Cazorla
    Fellaini > Sanchez

    Difeo are you ****ing serious right now? You guys fluke a 2-1 win versus Liverpool and beat City at their worst yet and suddenly you're the best team ever.

    We beat both of them by more and have spunked on every team that's come our way this year, as shown by the most points per game in Europe'd top 5 leagues. Can't wait for Chelsea to put you guys back in place tomorrow
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by leinad2012)
    1 goal and 2 assists in the last month and suddenly he's the best player in the league, this guy

    Comparing stats over the last month (i.e. when Sanchez has been in his worst form and Young at his best ever) and Sanchez only has 1 less assist and does miles more defensively.
    So you've agreed with me that he's been better attacking wise, and defensive work is fairly irrelevant for wingers/attacking midfielders but Young works hard and gets back to cover a lot, given he's played at LWB a lot it's clear he's a decent defender. So yeah you're pretty much agreeing with me lol, the fact that this is a low point for Sanchez and a high point for Young is utterly irrelevant.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    All the hype about Alexis Sanchez but Walcott actually had a better goal to game record than him in the 2012-2013 season. I think he is better than Sterling and Wenger is right to say he should stay.
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

This forum is supported by:
Updated: May 12, 2015
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.