Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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VladThe1mpaler
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#7421
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#7421
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I'm afraid not. EU law states that all EU Citiziens must be treated equally.

It may have missed you by but all of this criticism about Eastern European immigrants claiming benefits is. Belief that you can put your own Citiziens first, but in reality you can't.
Ah I see. Well I understand where the SNP are coming from but I don't understand why they think they will be allowed to do it when we join the EU. It's bizarre.
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Boab
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#7422
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#7422
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
There's a significant amount of evidence that Salmond is making it up.
There is a significant amount of evidence that Better Together is making it all up.

I understand you are blinded by your biased view, but there are two sides to this.
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Boab
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#7423
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#7423
(Original post by Horsedobbin)
Not a "silly statement" at all.
You clearly haven't thought it through.

It's NOT a question of THE UK losing the actual regiments, which would continue to exist but not under the control nor in the service of an independent Scotland. The soldiers won't all be made redundant after Scottish Independence , will they??
I have thought it through. I used to be in the Army and have a full understanding of the plans for a future Scottish defence force.

I am also very aware of the British forces scrapping of many many regiments and the redundancies of recent years.

It was a very silly statement.
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Boab
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#7424
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#7424
(Original post by Horsedobbin)
Oh, so you think it's far fetched that an independent Scotland would not wish to be under British Royal sovereignty?
No, it could go either way.

Bothered?!
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Boab
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#7425
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#7425
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ce-poll-losing

Coming on the back of his humiliating defeat in his debate, Alistair Carmichael is now worried that YES have the biggest campaign war chest in British political history.
Sounds awfully like a man getting his excuses in early!
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MatureStudent36
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#7426
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#7426
(Original post by Boab)
There is a significant amount of evidence that Better Together is making it all up.

I understand you are blinded by your biased view, but there are two sides to this.
Such as?

I've seen a senior member of the EU discredit Salmonds claim on automatic EU membership.

I've seen independent organisations raise issues about Salmonds claim of economic policy.

I've seen the major partners in Salmonds quest for a currency union say no, backed up by opinion polling.
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Boab
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#7427
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#7427
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Such as?

I've seen a senior member of the EU discredit Salmonds claim on automatic EU membership.

I've seen independent organisations raise issues about Salmonds claim of economic policy.

Not even sure what that means.


I've seen the major partners in Salmonds quest for a currency union say no, backed up by opinion polling.

What opinion polling has to do with anything on this issue is irrelevant, but I can point you back to 40% believing RuK claims against 45% thinking they are lying.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...icrous-remarks
The Spanish Foreign minister rubbishing said senior member of EU.

And well we all know about a Government minister admitting that the currency union threat is actually a lie.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-9223810.html
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MatureStudent36
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#7428
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#7428
(Original post by Boab)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...icrous-remarks
The Spanish Foreign minister rubbishing said senior member of EU.

And well we all know about a Government minister admitting that the currency union threat is actually a lie.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-9223810.html
So an opinion piece in a news paper goes against what a senior EU politician is saying and ignores the fact that all 28 member states have to agree.

And the other article is referencing a news article made in the guardian by an unnamed politician going against what other political leaders have said and goes against what the UK electorate want?

Compelling evidence their Boab. More of the YeSNP campaigns 'lets cross our fingers and hope for the best'
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KevK92
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#7429
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#7429
(Original post by Boab)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...icrous-remarks
The Spanish Foreign minister rubbishing said senior member of EU.

And well we all know about a Government minister admitting that the currency union threat is actually a lie.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-9223810.html
Spot on, My friend.
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Chalk.dust
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#7430
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#7430
(Original post by Jordan_1)
Scotland always has and always will punch above it's weight in terms on 'impacting the world stage'.
Not unlike the UK, in that regard.
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Cryptographic
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#7431
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#7431
1. No currency union will be agreed on by a party that wants to see themselves in government.

2. Salmond's plan to get into the EU (under article 48) relies on rUk's good will heavily. Too heavily. Re-applying will most likely be a lot quicker.

3. There will most likely be a GE and Scottish Election before independence is achieved, meaning that negotiations will most likely start over twice.

4. Sterling is an institution, and therefore while it is Scotland's pound, it is only Scotland's pound while they are part of the UK.

5. If Scotland reapplies to the EU (under Section 49) it will have to join the Schengen area. If Scotland pursues a drastically different immigration policy it cannot remain in the common travel area. Therefore border controls would have to be set up if either of these situations happen.
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Boab
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#7432
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#7432
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
So an opinion piece in a news paper goes against what a senior EU politician is saying and ignores the fact that all 28 member states have to agree.

It is not an opinion piece. It is the view of the Spanish Foreign Minister.
His own government have distanced themselves from his personal opinion.


And the other article is referencing a news article made in the guardian by an unnamed politician going against what other political leaders have said and goes against what the UK electorate want?

A government minister has admitted this. End of argument! Of course he wouldn't say it in public as he would be crucified by his leadership who want to continue this lie.
I could start with lies from BT if you wish. Shall we start with Doctor Who?
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Boab
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#7433
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#7433
(Original post by Cryptographic)
1. No currency union will be agreed on by a party that wants to see themselves in government.

The tories are likely to be re-elected after 5 years of austerity but a currency union is going to destroy them? Aye right!

2. Salmond's plan to get into the EU (under article 48) relies on rUk's good will heavily. Too heavily. Re-applying will most likely be a lot quicker.

3. There will most likely be a GE and Scottish Election before independence is achieved, meaning that negotiations will most likely start over twice.

Even politicians are not daft enough to bother with games like this. Tories more than likely to win anyway. Labour are useless right now.

4. Sterling is an institution, and therefore while it is Scotland's pound, it is only Scotland's pound while they are part of the UK.

5. If Scotland reapplies to the EU (under Section 49) it will have to join the Schengen area. If Scotland pursues a drastically different immigration policy it cannot remain in the common travel area. Therefore border controls would have to be set up if either of these situations happen.

The biggest nonsense ever to come out of Westminster. Anyone who has travelled throughout Europe and their countries who also have wildly differing immigration policies know this is utter scaremongering gibberish. How has border controls between France and England prevented immigration btw?
You'll have noticed how even Better Together politicians don't mention that last one before as people just laugh at them!
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Cryptographic
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#7434
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#7434
(Original post by Boab)
You'll have noticed how even Better Together politicians don't mention that last one before as people just laugh at them!
If they know that it will destroy them, why would they agree to it?

Ok if Labour get in, (not-unlikely) and the conservatives didn't use a bi-partisan committee, and Labour in their manifesto say certain things will happen in the negotiations, but the conservatives agreed differently. Then they could re-start. Since the Labour government would be reliant on the Scottish MP's then it would be in their interest to delay. 9 months is not a very long time, if a different party got elected (not SNP majority) and they had completely different aims then it could re-start again.

Well believe it or not some people get turned away. Once again making rUK completely sacrifice any semblance of being able to control it's immigration would be electoral suicide. Hence the potential border controls.
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Boab
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#7435
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#7435
(Original post by Cryptographic)
If they know that it will destroy them, why would they agree to it?

It won't destroy them. Pure hyperbole. the public have far more pressing things to worry about!

Ok if Labour get in, (not-unlikely) and the conservatives didn't use a bi-partisan committee, and Labour in their manifesto say certain things will happen in the negotiations, but the conservatives agreed differently. Then they could re-start. Since the Labour government would be reliant on the Scottish MP's then it would be in their interest to delay. 9 months is not a very long time, if a different party got elected (not SNP majority) and they had completely different aims then it could re-start again.

Firstly, you are just trying to imagine a very worst possible case scenario. Lets be realistic. Secondly the Scottish elections are scheduled for a date AFTER Scotland has declared its independence.
ps - No chance Labour are winning - that isn't a bias viewpoint, Labour are feckin hopeless at the moment - Ed Milliband?!!

Well believe it or not some people get turned away. Once again making rUK completely sacrifice any semblance of being able to control it's immigration would be electoral suicide. Hence the potential border controls.
No potential, at all. Theoretical nonsense dreamt up in the hope of scaring people.
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Cryptographic
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#7436
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#7436
(Original post by Boab)
No potential, at all. Theoretical nonsense dreamt up in the hope of scaring people.
Yes, scheduled is the key word, Tories need a 12 point swing to even equalise. 9 months is not very long. Especially when breaking up such a long union. It is, as Al Gore would have said, an inconvenient truth.

The right is getting much more concerned about immigration, why would rUk give up one of the most important parts of being an independent nation.
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Boab
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#7437
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#7437
An additional point on the next Scottish elections. Whereas Labour down south are ahead of the Tories in the polls, as opposition parties midway through a term tend and need to be to stand any chance, the Scottish Labour party are still miles behind an SNP administration whose full focus is obviously on the referendum.

Pitiful stuff from Lamont et al.
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Cryptographic
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#7438
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#7438
(Original post by Boab)
An additional point on the next Scottish elections. Whereas Labour down south are ahead of the Tories in the polls, as opposition parties midway term tend and need to be to stand any chance, the Scottish Labour party are still miles behind an SNP administration whose full focus is obviously on the referendum.

Pitiful stuff from Lamont et al.
Bull**** according to this: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls_scot.html

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Boab
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#7439
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#7439
(Original post by Cryptographic)
Bull**** according to this: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls_scot.html

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I will let you figure out your own mistake there.
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Cryptographic
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#7440
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#7440
(Original post by Boab)
I will let you figure out your own mistake there.
Opinion polls of Scottish parties, by people in Scotland. These are for UK GE, but these are more likely to become closer nearer the time when/if unionist's unite under one party.
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