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    I'll say I think you're being a little harsh on Allen. In the grand scheme of things goals and assists are not his game and throw in a few pointless goals and assists, then you couldn't make that accusation, but would he then be a success? I think its just a throw away stat so the wider point doesn't need to be evidenced. His job is not be be shooting or making the kind of passes that lead to goal, so why is the lack of him doing that relevant?


    I think he's just redundant in your set up, but I would say when he arrived that wasn't the case, got player of the month when he first arrived did he? When you've got players like Lucas, or Gerrard playing a Pirlo role from deep, or just are playing very fast fluid counter attacking play, his role (as such he as a player) is just a spare part.

    Joe Allen was always of the quality he was going to be a squad player, but you then take a specialised squad player and play him outside of the role and wonder why he looks ****. He probably shouldn't be in there, but I don't think you can aim any vitriol at him personally. If Rodgers brought him in, he has to do so with the knowledge Liverpool are going to be playing a system which suits him and has a place for him.
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    He did initially play a system that somewhat suited Allen though.
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    I'll say I think you're being a little harsh on Allen. In the grand scheme of things goals and assists are not his game and throw in a few pointless goals and assists, then you couldn't make that accusation, but would he then be a success? I think its just a throw away stat so the wider point doesn't need to be evidenced. His job is not be be shooting or making the kind of passes that lead to goal, so why is the lack of him doing that relevant?


    I think he's just redundant in your set up, but I would say when he arrived that wasn't the case, got player of the month when he first arrived did he? When you've got players like Lucas, or Gerrard playing a Pirlo role from deep, or just are playing very fast fluid counter attacking play, his role (as such he as a player) is just a spare part.

    Joe Allen was always of the quality he was going to be a squad player, but you then take a specialised squad player and play him outside of the role and wonder why he looks ****. He probably shouldn't be in there, but I don't think you can aim any vitriol at him personally. If Rodgers brought him in, he has to do so with the knowledge Liverpool are going to be playing a system which suits him and has a place for him.
    i respect you as a poster but i couldn't disagree more.

    you get people who constantly mention how football isn't always about numbers when analysing players but we all know that isn't true.
    people will always use numbers to back up their argument and you simply can't disput figures.
    i don't care who you are or what your job is; if you aren't a defensive player, you simply cannot play 62 games and come out with 1 goal and 0 assists.

    i understand your point about not playing allen to his strengths, but please remind me of what those are again?
    if his job is not to score or assist but he doesn't have the physicality and speed to drive forward or break up play, what is he useful for?
    there's nothing that allen offers us; he's taking the place of a better player and it's as simple as that.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    I'm not saying there's anything wrong buying for the future.
    Potential can be an excellent money saver that some of the best clubs utilise in their players.

    What I'm saying is that right now we don't need potential, we need bloody quality and we simply didn't get enough of it.

    We all knew this season was absolutely essential.
    Make top 4 and we finally look like an attractive, consistent option for quality players.
    Fail to do so and we're just accepting that last year was a one off because of suarez.
    Yea completely agree. Obviously though if you buy for today with players in their peak, they cost a fortune or you take a risk from a lower league/on further potential. We didn't really have the funds to buy players in their peak. We obviously paid top dollar for Lallana and Lovren because they were perceived to be in their peak.

    (Original post by Fideo)
    Well there's your answer. Klopp's career is still overwhelmingly positive, Rodgers' is about equal good and bad.
    Depends how this season finishes, I think Rodgers is more positive than negative tbh.

    (Original post by jam277)
    So does that mean AVBs and KKKennys signings are good too because a few of them worked out in the long run like Henderson, Suarez and Chadli.
    So you don't think Henderson or Suarez was a good buy then? :s

    (Original post by Gob Bluth)
    I can see where Luke's coming from though. When you're spending that much money you need people to be hitting the ground running. You don't want the set the team back a couple of years surely - which is what has happened. I have little doubt that a lot of these signing will come good, but there we go. After finishing 2nd you want to build on it. Losing Suarez, and Sturridge for half a season is bad, but that's why you must replace Suarez - and I'm sure there must be some that fit that sort of category out there and fit the team's counter attacking style, even if i'm not sure who would fit myself - scouts are paid for this!
    Actually this is the biggest mistake we make. When in the past 10+ years have we had a settled side? Man Utd of the past always had a very strong core and squad and then were able to bring in players with top potential (like C.Ronaldo) and give them 2-3 years to settle and adapt. Even the likes of Nani and Anderson were carried for years. We just don't have that margin of error. Look at Phil Jones and compare him to Sakho - both bought for top dollar but Sakho is a flop because we have no alternatives whereas P.Jones has all the time in the world.

    (Original post by sr90)
    Whilst this is true to some extent you can't buy all your players based on 'potential', it'll affect their development if they're playing in a team which isn't getting results and they don't have anyone to learn from.
    See above - we just need to one day get a settled squad. I fear that if you sack Rodgers now, you're back to squad one.

    (Original post by sr90)
    I'd piss myself laughing if you win one the year after Gerrard retires.
    Probably will happen. Owen left us for money/fame/more chance of trophies and we won the Champions League the year he left.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Depends how this season finishes, I think Rodgers is more positive than negative tbh.
    So far this one is bad, as was the one when he got sacked at Reading. He's had two good ones, last year and with Swansea. The rest, ie his time at Watford and his first season at Liverpool have been average.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    I'd piss myself laughing if you win one the year after Gerrard retires.
    Tbh Gerrard would probably beg to come out of retirement to collect his one and only PL medal. But Liverpool arent winning the title or coming close for the next decade

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    (Original post by Fideo)
    So far this one is bad, as was the one when he got sacked at Reading. He's had two good ones, last year and with Swansea. The rest, ie his time at Watford and his first season at Liverpool have been average.
    Now is irrelevant. If we somehow won every remaining game, would you talk about it being a bad one? Obviously that is highly unlikely but it's where we finish.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Now is irrelevant. If we somehow won every remaining game, would you talk about it being a bad one? Obviously that is highly unlikely but it's where we finish.
    But there's nothing to suggest that will happen so it's pointless, same as talking about Soldado potentially winning the Golden Boot. Currently this is a bad season so currently Rodgers' career should be regarded as mediocre one, if the results change then the opinion changes.
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    Oh don't forget, match thread for tomorrow. Locked an hour before kick off:

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3030445
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    (Original post by Fideo)
    But there's nothing to suggest that will happen so it's pointless, same as talking about Soldado potentially winning the Golden Boot. Currently this is a bad season so currently Rodgers' career should be regarded as mediocre one, if the results change then the opinion changes.
    If we win the Europa League or finish 4th then I'm happy enough. 4

    My biggest gripe with Rodgers is how poor the signings have been. I think he's a great head coach though perhaps not "manager"? Into his 3rd season now and there are so many gaps in the squad.

    We still need:
    A replacement GK for Mignolet
    A replacement LB for Enrique
    A replacement RB for Johnson if we don't extend
    A new CB to replace the dross we currently have
    A long term plan for Gerrard's replacement
    A better striker in addition/to replace Balotteli
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    Sterling won European Golden boy 2014, let's hope he doesn't end up like Anderson and Balotelli who also won it
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    If we win the Europa League or finish 4th then I'm happy enough. 4

    My biggest gripe with Rodgers is how poor the signings have been. I think he's a great head coach though perhaps not "manager"? Into his 3rd season now and there are so many gaps in the squad.

    We still need:
    A replacement GK for Mignolet
    A replacement LB for Enrique
    A replacement RB for Johnson if we don't extend
    A new CB to replace the dross we currently have
    A long term plan for Gerrard's replacement
    A better striker in addition/to replace Balotteli
    He clearly didn't expect Mignolet to have the bad patch that he is currently having.
    There weren't any decent LB/RB on the market - how many class LB/RB are even playing in the EPL?
    We bought LLori, Sakho, Lovren and Toure. Did any of us really expect to have the problem we have had with regards to Skrtel Agger Sakho and Lovren? I don't think we could even get a defender earlier because apparently one of the reasons Suarez stayed with us was because fellow Uruguayan Coates was at the club.. but that's speculation from me.
    I'm tempted to agree with you here but having a living legend still playing at the club will always be a delicate issue. I'd imagine we bought Can to replace Gerrard.
    Agreed - he did try but nobody wanted to come to Liverpool. We should have gone for Remy - can understand why 'medical reasons' might have stopped that but Balotelli hadn't played in the EPL for a while and we needed someone that could score goals immediately <Rodgers should have recognised this and bought Remy but note that you can't blame him for Sturridge missing out 17 (I think) games. In hindsight it's easy to see why we should have bought Remy but we have been desperately unlucky with Sturridge. You only have to look back to a couple of months ago when we lost out on Salah... things would have been different for us if we got him.
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    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    He clearly didn't expect Mignolet to have the bad patch that he is currently having.
    There weren't any decent LB/RB on the market - how many class LB/RB are even playing in the EPL?
    We bought LLori, Sakho, Lovren and Toure. Did any of us really expect to have the problem we have had with regards to Skrtel Agger Sakho and Lovren? I don't think we could even get a defender earlier because apparently one of the reasons Suarez stayed with us was because fellow Uruguayan Coates was at the club.. but that's speculation from me.
    I'm tempted to agree with you here but having a living legend still playing at the club will always be a delicate issue. I'd imagine we bought Can to replace Gerrard.
    Agreed - he did try but nobody wanted to come to Liverpool. We should have gone for Remy - can understand why 'medical reasons' might have stopped that but Balotelli hadn't played in the EPL for a while and we needed someone that could score goals immediately <Rodgers should have recognised this and bought Remy but note that you can't blame him for Sturridge missing out 17 (I think) games. In hindsight it's easy to see why we should have bought Remy but we have been desperately unlucky with Sturridge. You only have to look back to a couple of months ago when we lost out on Salah... things would have been different for us if we got him.
    It's not just a poor patch. Mignolet is only a good shot stopper so he's suited to a team aiming for the bottom half of the table. No presence in the box, poor distribution and little leadership.

    Well even Southampton and Everton have vastly superior fullbacks so something is very wrong.

    Rodgers let Agger go. Rodgers and the transfer committee need to know what was wrong with buying Sakho and Lovren. It was a lot of money for those two CBs.

    Just too many mistakes and it's catching up with the side.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    It's not just a poor patch. Mignolet is only a good shot stopper so he's suited to a team aiming for the bottom half of the table. No presence in the box, poor distribution and little leadership.

    Well even Southampton and Everton have vastly superior fullbacks so something is very wrong.

    Rodgers let Agger go. Rodgers and the transfer committee need to know what was wrong with buying Sakho and Lovren. It was a lot of money for those two CBs.

    Just too many mistakes and it's catching up with the side.
    True - his distribution isn't good, bad at dealing with crosses and not a commanding presence in set pieces. You're right - a good keeper is essential.

    Agger had to go. We had no choice in the matter. There was nothing wrong with Sakho and Lovren when we first bought them - Sakho had a decent first season... though our defense had an appalling last season.. I was pleased with Sakho - can't say the same for Lovren though but by all accounts he had a fine season at Southampton - the only conclusion I can draw from this is that the players themselves are technically fine but the defensive coaching is a problem so it's not a transfer policy problem
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    What do people think about Klopp? Dortmund are 17th out of 18 and now go into the winter break. I do think Klopp will resign at the end of the season.

    If he were to come to England:

    Man City - no real reason to sack Pellegrini and Simeone seems to be top of their want list
    Chelsea - Mourinho only into his 2nd season and doing well so no change in the summer.
    Arsenal - Wenger will want to see out his contract in 2017
    Man Utd - just signed LVG so can't see a change.

    Spurs - could happen since Levy is trigger happy
    Everton - Martinez could get sacked but they don't have the funds/potential to challenge.

    We could be the one serious option for Klopp?
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    What do people think about Klopp? Dortmund are 17th out of 18 and now go into the winter break. I do think Klopp will resign at the end of the season.

    If he were to come to England:

    Man City - no real reason to sack Pellegrini and Simeone seems to be top of their want list
    Chelsea - Mourinho only into his 2nd season and doing well so no change in the summer.
    Arsenal - Wenger will want to see out his contract in 2017
    Man Utd - just signed LVG so can't see a change.

    Spurs - could happen since Levy is trigger happy
    Everton - Martinez could get sacked but they don't have the funds/potential to challenge.

    We could be the one serious option for Klopp?

    Spurs are an absolute joke of a club. Most likely Klopp has never heard of them. Everton would also be way too miniscule.
    I actually agree, I think Klopp would do well at Liverpool considering the funds and resources you have, he'd also get a fair share of time instead of being expected to hit the ground running or being fired otherwise. Arsenal don't need Klopp, at least I don't think he is the right man to take over us.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    What do people think about Klopp? Dortmund are 17th out of 18 and now go into the winter break. I do think Klopp will resign at the end of the season.

    If he were to come to England:

    Man City - no real reason to sack Pellegrini and Simeone seems to be top of their want list
    Chelsea - Mourinho only into his 2nd season and doing well so no change in the summer.
    Arsenal - Wenger will want to see out his contract in 2017
    Man Utd - just signed LVG so can't see a change.

    Spurs - could happen since Levy is trigger happy
    Everton - Martinez could get sacked but they don't have the funds/potential to challenge.

    We could be the one serious option for Klopp?
    I can't see Klopp resigning at the end of the season, He'll want to fix the damage next season tbh, he's that kind of guy.

    I have said Liverpool and Klopp would be a perfect match. Liverpool suits his level and management style. Anywhere else and he wouldn't last very long tbh
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    Spurs are an absolute joke of a club. Most likely Klopp has never heard of them. Everton would also be way too miniscule.
    I actually agree, I think Klopp would do well at Liverpool considering the funds and resources you have, he'd also get a fair share of time instead of being expected to hit the ground running or being fired otherwise. Arsenal don't need Klopp, at least I don't think he is the right man to take over us.
    that awkward moment when a joke of a club are above you
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    Spurs are an absolute joke of a club. Most likely Klopp has never heard of them. Everton would also be way too miniscule.
    I actually agree, I think Klopp would do well at Liverpool considering the funds and resources you have, he'd also get a fair share of time instead of being expected to hit the ground running or being fired otherwise. Arsenal don't need Klopp, at least I don't think he is the right man to take over us.
    (Original post by Fideo)
    that awkward moment when a joke of a club are above you
    i luv da bantz
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Yea completely agree. Obviously though if you buy for today with players in their peak, they cost a fortune or you take a risk from a lower league/on further potential. We didn't really have the funds to buy players in their peak. We obviously paid top dollar for Lallana and Lovren because they were perceived to be in their peak.
    true, it will always cost much more money to buy quality that you can see now.
    but that's redundant since we pay that kind of money anyway on young overpriced players.
    the fact is that we didn't buy the quality we needed but we also overpaid for the players we bought.

    for 20m we really should be getting a better CB than lovren.
    for 25m we should be easily getting a better attacker than lallana.
    for 20m we should be getting a better winger than markovic.
    for 16m (or not much more) we could've acquired a better striker than balotelli (bony, remy, etc...)

    it just seems to be a pattern that we buy players based on form instead of long-term quality.
    our scouts clearly don't have a clue and don't get me started on our transfer negotiators.

    (Original post by Zerforax)
    If we win the Europa League or finish 4th then I'm happy enough. 4

    My biggest gripe with Rodgers is how poor the signings have been. I think he's a great head coach though perhaps not "manager"? Into his 3rd season now and there are so many gaps in the squad.

    We still need:
    A replacement GK for Mignolet
    A replacement LB for Enrique
    A replacement RB for Johnson if we don't extend
    A new CB to replace the dross we currently have
    A long term plan for Gerrard's replacement
    A better striker in addition/to replace Balotteli
    i couldn't agree more - i don't feel like rodgers is good enough in general to manager our club.
    he's fine at a midtabled one, but when you're trying to be near the top like we are, i don't think he has the skills or the bottle for it.

    we DEFINITELY need a GK, CB and 2 strikers (after selling balotelli/borini) - to me those are essentials to buy in january (which we naturally won't acquire).
    we could also do with a RB (somebody experienced so we have manquillo as back up), DM and maybe a LB (as back up to moreno.)

    i can't stand watching mignolet in goal and with brad jones as back up.
    i can't stand gifting other teams goals because we have no quality in CB.
    i can't stand not having strikers good enough to do their actual job and put the ball in the net.
 
 
 
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