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    Tbh, the issue with our defence is more down to poor coaching and organisation than individual quality, it has looked bad ever since Rodgers has come in. A world class centre back would look bad in our defence due lack of protection from midfield and poor coaching, you can't buy your way out of a bad defence.

    Individually Lovren is bad I agree, he needs protection from the midfield to hold his hand to look good (eg at Southampton) but our other CB's arn't really that bad tbh.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    you get people who constantly mention how football isn't always about numbers when analysing players but we all know that isn't true. people will always use numbers to back up their argument and you simply can't disput figures.
    The is significant difference between using stats and number and using relevant stats and numbers. You don't judge goalies by assists, you don't judge strikers by pass completion rates. Goal and assists do not make or break a player who plays his role.

    i don't care who you are or what your job is; if you aren't a defensive player, you simply cannot play 62 games and come out with 1 goal and 0 assists.
    Technically speaking he is a defensive player, but as below...

    i understand your point about not playing allen to his strengths, but please remind me of what those are again?
    If you're unaware of this then how do you have a hope in hell of coming to any reasonable conclusion here. He was one of the best players in one of the best smaller teams in the league, won Wales player of the year 2012, your player of the month when he arrived, but no strengths at all according to you? Does that really sound realistic, how did he get that acclaim with no strengths?

    if his job is not to score or assist but he doesn't have the physicality and speed to drive forward or break up play, what is he useful for?
    In possession Joe Allen's job is to sit deep, cycle the possession, offer and outlet when the attack is not viable. He rarely gives the ball away because he rarely makes risky passes. Here's few excerpts from a piece on Swansea under Rodgers (you may remember the Swansealona tag they got.)

    the suffocating high energy midfield play that has served Swansea so well, the dual defensive midfielders Mark Gower and Joe Allen relentlessly pressing high up the field
    There was also evidence of the sudden shift of tempo that marks Swansea's attacking play: patient spells of deep possession spiced with precise thrusts often down the flanks.
    They are currently No1 by an absolute street when it comes to Premier League teams making passes in their own half. Swansea have made 2,474, practically lapping the team currently in second (yes, Arsenal) and making more than three times as many defensive passes as their tactical opposite, the get-it-forwards merchants of Stoke City.
    I've debated whether go into further detail here, but I can't be bothered going into depth upon the 2012 tactics of Swansea City but assuming you get that, its pretty clear that he's not a footballer with no strengths, nor are many of the complains you are making towards him faults or flaws in his game. He's the same player you bought, he's the same player he always was. He's can play to a good, probably squad level for a top 4 team, in a specific system. You however are not and have not being playing that system.

    there's nothing that allen offers us; he's taking the place of a better player and it's as simple as that.
    The distinction to be made is he offers you something you don't need, not that he offers you nothing. If Rodgers bring players in its his job to ensure either they can play the style he wants or he is going to play the style they can. His arrival made sense in 2012, made zero in 2013, and I among many other have no idea what Rodgers is doing with the team at present. Point being he's been made irrelevant by his manager, not by being incompetent.
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    Spurs are an absolute joke of a club. Most likely Klopp has never heard of them. Everton would also be way too miniscule.
    I actually agree, I think Klopp would do well at Liverpool considering the funds and resources you have, he'd also get a fair share of time instead of being expected to hit the ground running or being fired otherwise. Arsenal don't need Klopp, at least I don't think he is the right man to take over us.
    Spurs punch well above their weight in terms of ambition. They managed to hire some decent names - Redknapp, Ramos and AVB in recent years. Yea Everton are limited, Kenwright himself has admitted it.

    Well Klopp would be able to attract some bigger names to Liverpool imo.

    [QUOTE=sevchenko;52361121]I can't see Klopp resigning at the end of the season, He'll want to fix the damage next season tbh, he's that kind of guy.

    True - with Mainz he got relegated and then tried one more season but failed to get promotion.

    It's now Klopp's 7th season and while he might not want to go out on a low, I think he might feel that it's time to move on?

    (Original post by Lúcio)
    true, it will always cost much more money to buy quality that you can see now.
    but that's redundant since we pay that kind of money anyway on young overpriced players.
    the fact is that we didn't buy the quality we needed but we also overpaid for the players we bought.

    for 20m we really should be getting a better CB than lovren.
    for 25m we should be easily getting a better attacker than lallana.
    for 20m we should be getting a better winger than markovic.
    for 16m (or not much more) we could've acquired a better striker than balotelli (bony, remy, etc...)

    it just seems to be a pattern that we buy players based on form instead of long-term quality.
    our scouts clearly don't have a clue and don't get me started on our transfer negotiators.



    i couldn't agree more - i don't feel like rodgers is good enough in general to manager our club.
    he's fine at a midtabled one, but when you're trying to be near the top like we are, i don't think he has the skills or the bottle for it.

    we DEFINITELY need a GK, CB and 2 strikers (after selling balotelli/borini) - to me those are essentials to buy in january (which we naturally won't acquire).
    we could also do with a RB (somebody experienced so we have manquillo as back up), DM and maybe a LB (as back up to moreno.)

    i can't stand watching mignolet in goal and with brad jones as back up.
    i can't stand gifting other teams goals because we have no quality in CB.
    i can't stand not having strikers good enough to do their actual job and put the ball in the net.
    I wouldn't underestimate how much transfers got inflated with all English clubs having a lot more money. Long gone are the days when you can find a great CB for 5-7mil (like we did with Agger and Skrtel, even Vidic for Man Utd).

    There was a real lack of CBs in the summer. Who would you have bought? No one else was moving.
    I like the look of Lallana but he moves after a great season at Southampton so they were always going to demand top dollar.
    Markovic was perhaps a luxury we couldn't afford this season considering our first team was struggling. But when you consider that we have Sterling, Coutinho and Lallana as first choice, surely Markovic could have more time?
    Similarly there weren't many strikers around. No point in talking about Remy since the club decided his medical was enough of a red flag to make it a no go. Bony was going to cost more than £20mil, maybe even higher.

    Well Rodgers showed last season that he is a strong manager/head coach since he took us to 2nd. He got the most out of his squad. Don't forget that he was competing against a club which has spent like £500mil on transfers/wages.

    I guess FSG will decide if they will stick or twist. I'd probably take Klopp over Rodgers but I wouldn't sack Rodgers unless there was an attractive alternative.
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    (Original post by samir12)
    Tbh, the issue with our defence is more down to poor coaching and organisation than individual quality, it has looked bad ever since Rodgers has come in. A world class centre back would look bad in our defence due lack of protection from midfield and poor coaching, you can't buy your way out of a bad defence.

    Individually Lovren is bad I agree, he needs protection from the midfield to hold his hand to look good (eg at Southampton) but our other CB's arn't really that bad tbh.
    Bring back Rafa Benitez?
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    [QUOTE=Zerforax;52362829]Spurs punch well above their weight in terms of ambition. They managed to hire some decent names - Redknapp, Ramos and AVB in recent years. Yea Everton are limited, Kenwright himself has admitted it.

    Well Klopp would be able to attract some bigger names to Liverpool imo.

    (Original post by sevchenko)
    I can't see Klopp resigning at the end of the season, He'll want to fix the damage next season tbh, he's that kind of guy.

    True - with Mainz he got relegated and then tried one more season but failed to get promotion.

    It's now Klopp's 7th season and while he might not want to go out on a low, I think he might feel that it's time to move on?



    I wouldn't underestimate how much transfers got inflated with all English clubs having a lot more money. Long gone are the days when you can find a great CB for 5-7mil (like we did with Agger and Skrtel, even Vidic for Man Utd).

    There was a real lack of CBs in the summer. Who would you have bought? No one else was moving.
    I like the look of Lallana but he moves after a great season at Southampton so they were always going to demand top dollar.
    Markovic was perhaps a luxury we couldn't afford this season considering our first team was struggling. But when you consider that we have Sterling, Coutinho and Lallana as first choice, surely Markovic could have more time?
    Similarly there weren't many strikers around. No point in talking about Remy since the club decided his medical was enough of a red flag to make it a no go. Bony was going to cost more than £20mil, maybe even higher.

    Well Rodgers showed last season that he is a strong manager/head coach since he took us to 2nd. He got the most out of his squad. Don't forget that he was competing against a club which has spent like £500mil on transfers/wages.


    I guess FSG will decide if they will stick or twist. I'd probably take Klopp over Rodgers but I wouldn't sack Rodgers unless there was an attractive alternative.
    1 week for tactically preparing against any team. Poor cup runs. Hardly ever used his 3 subs.

    Liverpool being a team that's supposed to challenge the league every year; a coach appointed should be capable of delivering that regardless of the situation.
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    (Original post by samir12)
    Tbh, the issue with our defence is more down to poor coaching and organisation than individual quality, it has looked bad ever since Rodgers has come in. A world class centre back would look bad in our defence due lack of protection from midfield and poor coaching, you can't buy your way out of a bad defence.

    Individually Lovren is bad I agree, he needs protection from the midfield to hold his hand to look good (eg at Southampton) but our other CB's arn't really that bad tbh.
    Completely agree with all of this. I think Rodgers' backroom staff have been questionable at best for some time now. Why don't we have a decent defensive coach? Remember how solid we were under Rafa? We went 11 games without conceding one season ffs.
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    I get what he's saying but you'd say the same with Manchester United and Cleverley.

    Joe Allen doesn't suit a fast paced counter attacking style but Liverpool don't play that they play general safe possession, it's what teams generally do when they're struggling to get results focus more on keeping possession of the ball rather than creating chances.

    Matter of fact is that Allen is not good enough but I think it depends on Liverpool's ambitions, do they have the same ambitions as United, or Chelsea or City and do they genuinely believe that they have the quality or can attract the quality that is capable of matching those ambitions.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    I get what he's saying but you'd say the same with Manchester United and Cleverley.
    Nah can't be arsed on mobile but that's not a valid comparison.




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    Come on lads, we win and we have a chance of top 4, we lose and it's gone... YNWA
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    I don't think either team wilful a thrashing, think it'll be a slow game


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    [QUOTE=ShotsFired-9941;52364129]
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Spurs punch well above their weight in terms of ambition. They managed to hire some decent names - Redknapp, Ramos and AVB in recent years. Yea Everton are limited, Kenwright himself has admitted it.

    Well Klopp would be able to attract some bigger names to Liverpool imo.

    1 week for tactically preparing against any team. Poor cup runs. Hardly ever used his 3 subs.

    Liverpool being a team that's supposed to challenge the league every year; a coach appointed should be capable of delivering that regardless of the situation.
    Why does having a week to prepare matter? Surely if anything it shows that he can prepare his teams? He's not been at a club where he's played every 3/4 days so this was probably a new learning experience for him?

    He hardly ever used his subs because we had no depth in quality? He's now obviously tried to address that with new signings?

    Liverpool haven't been a team who regularly challenge for a long time. In the last 10 years, we've had 2 title challenges. There's a strong correlation between wage budget and final league finishing position and for a number of years now, we've had the 5th largest wage bill. Probably 50-100% smaller than the likes of Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd.
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    [QUOTE=Zerforax;52368955]
    (Original post by ShotsFired-9941)

    Why does having a week to prepare matter? Surely if anything it shows that he can prepare his t`eams? He's not been at a club where he's played every 3/4 days so this was probably a new learning experience for him?

    He hardly ever used his subs because we had no depth in quality? He's now obviously tried to address that with new signings?

    Liverpool haven't been a team who regularly challenge for a long time. In the last 10 years, we've had 2 title challenges. There's a strong correlation between wage budget and final league finishing position and for a number of years now, we've had the 5th largest wage bill. Probably 50-100% smaller than the likes of Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd.
    Given Lverpool's stature, a manager's ability to prepare a team against an opposition in 3-4 days is not asking too much. The "I don't have experience" is just a low excuse. If they are not up for it they should be fired lol.

    I know it's only two players, but why were Aspas and Alberto brought in? Sure they didn't turn out to be the best but both of them (of what little I saw) did make an impression whenever they were introduced in the first team (minus Aspas' chelsea corner kick pls).

    Yeah they were in the dumps but after FSG took over things would have been good had Rodger had a better knack in man management and transfer dealings. Shouldve.. wouldve... couldve...
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    ****ing hell we're ten points off West Ham. It's Christmas.
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    [QUOTE=ShotsFired-9941;52370225]
    (Original post by Zerforax)

    Given Lverpool's stature, a manager's ability to prepare a team against an opposition in 3-4 days is not asking too much. The "I don't have experience" is just a low excuse. If they are not up for it they should be fired lol.

    I know it's only two players, but why were Aspas and Alberto brought in? Sure they didn't turn out to be the best but both of them (of what little I saw) did make an impression whenever they were introduced in the first team (minus Aspas' chelsea corner kick pls).

    Yeah they were in the dumps but after FSG took over things would have been good had Rodger had a better knack in man management and transfer dealings. Shouldve.. wouldve... couldve...
    It's not a good enough excuse. He's either got to improve quickly or he'll get the sack. I'm just pointing out that at Watford, Reading and Swansea and his 2nd season at Liverpool, he didn't have that.

    We've been poor in the transfer market. Only 2 successes, half a dozen "could be good" and even more bad transfers.

    Imo FSG will either sack Rodgers or they will implement a director of football to oversee the transfers. We failed with Comolli but then Rodgers could focus on the coaching.
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    Predict the score for today...
    I reckon 2-0 to the ARSENAL
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    (Original post by Jgco2chem)
    Predict the score for today...
    I reckon 2-0 to the ARSENAL
    5-1 to Arsenal. Sanchez hattrick.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    5-1 to Arsenal. Sanchez hattrick.
    I tell you one thing, Liverpool thrive when they are the underdogs so don't be surprised if they win.
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    Predicting 3-1 or more to Arsenal.

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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    5-1 to Arsenal. Sanchez hattrick.

    4-0 under 20 minutes you reckon?
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    Liverpool will win. I go 2-1, Stevie and Sterling.


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