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    Yeah Arsenal would almost certainly be top if they'd signed Fabregas
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Point is it's impossible to player-by-player compare 4 to 5



    Alexis can just about be included but Walcott and Welbeck are forwards really. Not necessarily strikers but wingers.

    But they're still part of the midfield? I'll give you Walcott but the amount of times Welbeck/Alexis drop deep into the midfield means they're anything but traditional forwards
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Yeah Arsenal would almost certainly be top if they'd signed Fabregas

    Please try to justify this statement without referring to his 16 assists at Chelsea.
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Yeah Arsenal would almost certainly be top if they'd signed Fabregas
    not really.

    Injuries to our strikers and our defense killed this season for us.

    Adding cesc in would have helped - sure.. and probably would have put us at a more comfortable 2nd, but I dont think it would have been enough to beat chelsea.

    Afterall, without cesc, they would have brought someone else to fill that role, and whilst they may not have been quite as good, I think that chelseas drop with a non-cesc midfielder, would not have been as big as our gain with our midfield + cesc, if you see what I mean.

    We would have still had no striker to finish chances, and about 3 fit defenders for the first half of the season.
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    Arsenal don't need Fabregas, they need some new physios
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    (Original post by al_94)
    We don't need another creative midfielder that's why we should have sold Santi and brought in Cesc. We should never have allowed him to go to Chelsea where he's helping them win the title. If you think without Cesc Chelsea wouldn't have dropped points then you should go and live on the moon! Mourinho is laughing at Wenger he is right the guy is a specialist in failure no wonder he hasnt won the league in 11 years! Also you shouldn't insult Cesc he's an Arsenal legend he carried us on his back and had the complete right to go back to Barca so don't get butthurt.
    Chelsea would have won the league anyway, last year they missed out by a few points and this year City collapsed.

    And lol at not insulting Cesc. Next week I'm going to spend 90m screaming abuse at him at each and every opportunity and trust the vast majority of others will too. Aim is to cause Cesc some kind of visible mental episode on the pitch. Absolute dream would be for him to break his leg and to get pelted with coins as he's hauled off the pitch
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    When's the last time Cesc was at the Emirates?
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    When's the last time Cesc was at the Emirates?
    Probably last season as a spectator, used to post pictures of himself at the ground fairly regularly.

    As a player, like April 2011.
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    Please try to justify this statement without referring to his 16 assists at Chelsea.
    Why should someone trying to justify that opinion (not that I agree with it but it's certainly possible) exclude the fact that he's had a hand in his club scoring goals, which win games, and therefore points, and therefore trophies. Chelsea's top assister last season I think was Hazard with between 10 and 15 iirc, so for Fabregas to have got more than that in the league alone is impressive. If he was playing as a no.10 at Arsenal I'm confident he'd have as many as he does now, and would certainly have better stats than Ozil and Cazorla this season, and on par with Sanchez.

    Btw, this second half of the season dip in form would seem to be a Barca problem, as Sanchez has struggled with it just as much as Fabregas this year.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    not really.

    Injuries to our strikers and our defense killed this season for us.

    Adding cesc in would have helped - sure.. and probably would have put us at a more comfortable 2nd, but I dont think it would have been enough to beat chelsea.

    Afterall, without cesc, they would have brought someone else to fill that role, and whilst they may not have been quite as good, I think that chelseas drop with a non-cesc midfielder, would not have been as big as our gain with our midfield + cesc, if you see what I mean.

    We would have still had no striker to finish chances, and about 3 fit defenders for the first half of the season.
    (Original post by AR_95)
    Please try to justify this statement without referring to his 16 assists at Chelsea.
    Dunno what the bolded means, that's clearly relevant.

    You're 7 points behind, and how many points did Fabregas win them in the first few months of the season alone? Even if they'd have signed someone else, there was no one available who could've had that impact or even close. Then there's other occasions even with his drop in form, like his late winner the other day, that's 2 points right there.

    So him not being at Chelsea would arguably leave them 7 points worse off, without even considering what he'd bring to your team. You drew 5 games in the first 3 months of the season (Everton, Leicester, Hull, City, Spurs) with lineups that include Arteta, Wilshere and Ramsey. With his form of pretty much an assist per game, you'd have won some of those.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Chelsea would have won the league anyway, last year they missed out by a few points and this year City collapsed.

    And lol at not insulting Cesc. Next week I'm going to spend 90m screaming abuse at him at each and every opportunity and trust the vast majority of others will too. Aim is to cause Cesc some kind of visible mental episode on the pitch. Absolute dream would be for him to break his leg and to get pelted with coins as he's hauled off the pitch
    So classy
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    .
    GTA?
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Chelsea would have won the league anyway, last year they missed out by a few points and this year City collapsed.

    And lol at not insulting Cesc. Next week I'm going to spend 90m screaming abuse at him at each and every opportunity and trust the vast majority of others will too. Aim is to cause Cesc some kind of visible mental episode on the pitch. Absolute dream would be for him to break his leg and to get pelted with coins as he's hauled off the pitch
    Yes I'm sure a professional footballer about to win a league title he's never won before and is being paid £150,000 a week will be so distraught at grown men of an opposing football team shouting childish names at him.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Aim is to cause Cesc some kind of visible mental episode on the pitch. Absolute dream would be for him to break his leg and to get pelted with coins as he's hauled off the pitch
    Yet Chelsea fans are the 'scum'? haha
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    Arsenal don't need Fabregas, they need some new physios
    Let's go sign Bayern's medical team
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Dunno what the bolded means, that's clearly relevant.

    You're 7 points behind, and how many points did Fabregas win them in the first few months of the season alone? Even if they'd have signed someone else, there was no one available who could've had that impact or even close. Then there's other occasions even with his drop in form, like his late winner the other day, that's 2 points right there.

    So him not being at Chelsea would arguably leave them 7 points worse off, without even considering what he'd bring to your team. You drew 5 games in the first 3 months of the season (Everton, Leicester, Hull, City, Spurs) with lineups that include Arteta, Wilshere and Ramsey. With his form you'd have won some of those games.
    Absolutely cant stand it when people do this. Change one result and then pretend all else in the season would be equal, maybe with someone other than Cesc on the pitch they'd have won games they dropped points in ? :confused:

    They lost the title by a couple of points last season, they'd have signed someone else had they not signed Cesc and they would certainly have won the title.

    As for Arsenal, well we beat Utd in the Cup. With Cesc on the pitch it would have been an entirely different game and given our record at OT, probably wouldnt have won it. Again, you cant just change the results you like and leave the others the same. Doesnt work like that.
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Dunno what the bolded means, that's clearly relevant.

    You're 7 points behind, and how many points did Fabregas win them in the first few months of the season alone? Even if they'd have signed someone else, there was no one available who could've had that impact or even close. Then there's other occasions even with his drop in form, like his late winner the other day, that's 2 points right there.

    So him not being at Chelsea would arguably leave them 7 points worse off, without even considering what he'd bring to your team. You drew 5 games in the first 3 months of the season (Everton, Leicester, Hull, City, Spurs) with lineups that include Arteta, Wilshere and Ramsey. With his form you'd have won some of those games.
    problem is, that it does not work as simple as that..

    Chelsea without fabregas would still have found a way to get results, and other players would have stepped into his role more.

    Equally arsenal with fabregas would still have dropped points due to our terrible make-shift defense..

    Its like zurich says, its never as simple as subtracting a player and their contribution from one team, and adding it to another.. thats just not how it works in real life football. Without fabregas chelsea would have someone else, and other players would have slightly different roles, and the team would function differently etc. you cant just take way his winners, and presume he would have then given them to arsenal.

    Not to mention the cost.. whilst cheaper yes, fabregas would not have been free for us.. and likelyhood is we would have lost one of our actual signigns, had we brought fabregas instead..
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    (Original post by The Shed End)
    Yet Chelsea fans are the 'scum'? haha
    Taking a leaf out of the anti-fascist playbook and making allowances for normally despicable actions against despicable opponents.

    If I could get away with it I would 100% throw a cup of urine into the Chelsea end. Wouldnt even have to think twice.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Absolutely cant stand it when people do this. Change one result and then pretend all else in the season would be equal, maybe with someone other than Cesc on the pitch they'd have won games they dropped points in ? :confused:

    They lost the title by a couple of points last season, they'd have signed someone else had they not signed Cesc and they would certainly have won the title.

    As for Arsenal, well we beat Utd in the Cup. With Cesc on the pitch it would have been an entirely different game and given our record at OT, probably wouldnt have won it. Again, you cant just change the results you like and leave the others the same. Doesnt work like that.
    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    problem is, that it does not work as simple as that..

    Chelsea without fabregas would still have found a way to get results, and other players would have stepped into his role more.

    Equally arsenal with fabregas would still have dropped points due to our terrible make-shift defense..

    Its like zurich says, its never as simple as subtracting a player and their contribution from one team, and adding it to another.. thats just not how it works in real life football. Without fabregas chelsea would have someone else, and other players would have slightly different roles, and the team would function differently etc. you cant just take way his winners, and presume he would have then given them to arsenal.

    Not to mention the cost.. whilst cheaper yes, fabregas would not have been free for us.. and likelyhood is we would have lost one of our actual signigns, had we brought fabregas instead..
    Yes it's not quite that simple but you can't seriously look at how good he was earlier this season, and act like Chelsea would have done just as well with someone else there. Oscar in Cesc's role with Ramires/Mikel coming into the team maybe? Or a new signing... Herrera's not good enough, Kroos was always going to Madrid, who is this "someone else" who would've made an impact in the same way?
    Fact is he was the league's best player in the first 3 months, which is when they pulled away from you, and there's no way they'd have done as well as they did in that period without him.
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    Zurich reminds me of the Stoke fans who booed Ramsey for getting his leg broken
 
 
 
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