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    (Original post by jam277)
    Really is he actually that much better than Ramires on the ball. Henderson isn't really the type of guy to make numerous key passes a game. Ramires is better defensively while Henderson has a bit more composure on the ball.

    If you give Ramires space to play he can play the ball it's only when he gets congested(which 95% of teams do against Chelsea while other teams give Liverpool space to play they just lack the technique to get past) when he looks poor and bumbly on the ball.

    Milner is decent technically. Take e.g. his game against Liverpool last season e.g. when he came on and destroyed you lot.
    Well I think he is technically better than Ramires. Henderson might not make as many key passes as a Fabregas type player but if you watch him a lot, you can see he's added that attacking play to his game. You see a lot more through balls, clever balls over the top and chances created by Henderson. We're not scoring many at the moment so it wont show in his stats.

    Ramires has a first poor touch for a top team like Chelsea. But he can usually make up for it with his athleticism and energy. All of Ramires' best games (from what I've seen) is when Chelsea are on the back foot and he breaks up play then he can counter into space (maximising his defensive capabilities with his energy and pace).

    Imo Milner would look great in a mid-table side (like Villa) where his allround game is appreciated more. He's a very good player but master of none (no key skill set) so he gets overlooked.
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    (Original post by Bromaldehyde)
    Sakho is our best defender tbh , was great to see a defender play with confidence against Arsenal. Hope Rodgers gives him more of a chance.

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    If we go back to a two CB defence, I can't see Lovren getting back into the side any time soon.

    Is 3-4-3 the way to go against Burnley away from home? You imagine Boyd and Arfield will just try to attack between the wingback and the outer CBs with pace?
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Hilarious how Rodgers says we don't need a defensive coach. We've been so bad in defence during his tenure. Cba to tally up how many conceded in all competitions.
    Pretty sure 100% of all goals conceded have been from corners or unforced defensive errors, too.

    Not sure we've ever conceded a clean, quality, unstoppable goal.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Pretty sure 100% of all goals conceded have been from corners or unforced defensive errors, too.

    Not sure we've ever conceded a clean, quality, unstoppable goal.
    Ronaldo's goal at Anfield comes to mind, Benzema's at the Bernabau too (if you consider that cross from Marcelo), can't think of or remember other ones.
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    (Original post by samir12)
    Ronaldo's goal at Anfield comes to mind, can't think of or remember other ones.
    All of Madrid's goals do, yeah, but I was thinking of the PL.

    That Gera goal in Rodgers' first game is literally the only one I can recall.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    All of Madrid's goals do, yeah, but I was thinking of the PL.

    That Gera goal in Rodgers' first game is literally the only one I can recall.
    I'm sure there have been a few goals that was down to quality play from the opposition or a one in a million strike from outside the box. But we have conceded so many cheap/avoidable goals that it feels like all of our goals is down to us.
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    (Original post by samir12)
    I'm sure there have been a few goals that was down to quality play from the opposition or a one in a million strike from outside the box. But we have conceded so many cheap/avoidable goals that it feels like all of our goals is down to us.
    Oh, I'm exaggerating, of course.

    It seems that every goal we concede is preventable and down to unforced errors, though. I read we have conceded the most from defensive errors of any club this season - even more than the bottom half clubs.

    Not good enough.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Really is he actually that much better than Ramires on the ball. Henderson isn't really the type of guy to make numerous key passes a game. Ramires is better defensively while Henderson has a bit more composure on the ball.

    If you give Ramires space to play he can play the ball it's only when he gets congested(which 95% of teams do against Chelsea while other teams give Liverpool space to play they just lack the technique to get past) when he looks poor and bumbly on the ball.

    Milner is decent technically. Take e.g. his game against Liverpool last season e.g. when he came on and destroyed you lot.
    http://www.squawka.com/comparison-ma...terceptions#90

    Don't you dare ever compare Ramires to Henderson in an attacking sense ever again. Ramires is as toothless as they come. Inb4 Nou Camp goal.

    Henderson is ostensibly a utility player - but he isn't a true one like Milner. He's never excelled at RM or RWB, whereas Milner has truly been magnificent in at least 5 roles across the pitch. Henderson is definitely a central midfielder who can be used out wide - whereas Milner has the capability to play anywhere except CB and do a great job.

    Milner is one of the world's top utility players. He cost £30m, his previous transfer fee was £12m, and he's turning 29 in two weeks - ie he's playing to his price tag, is at the top of his game, and has the luxury of being an impact sub at one of the top tier clubs of the world.

    For Henderson to match and better his statistics at the age of 24 is excellent. He's had a poor season so far but he still won us the West Brom game and it's not as if anyone else in our team except Kolo and Sterling have had a good season either.

    Also the idea of Henderson ending up in the number 10 role behind the strikers is simply laughable Zerf. One, because we have Sterling, Coutinho, Markovic etc all far more suited to the role, two because Henderson is frankly an awful finisher and not upto attacking midfielder standard AT ALL, and three because his best attributes (ie his work rate, defensive abilities and ability to circulate the ball) are all for central midfielders, not number 10s.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    That Gera goal in Rodgers' first game is literally the only one I can recall.
    Then you have an utterly ****e memory
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    How has everyone forgotten the Jagielka goal...


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    (Original post by JamesR12)
    http://www.squawka.com/comparison-ma...terceptions#90

    Don't you dare ever compare Ramires to Henderson in an attacking sense ever again. Ramires is as toothless as they come. Inb4 Nou Camp goal.

    Henderson is ostensibly a utility player - but he isn't a true one like Milner. He's never excelled at RM or RWB, whereas Milner has truly been magnificent in at least 5 roles across the pitch. Henderson is definitely a central midfielder who can be used out wide - whereas Milner has the capability to play anywhere except CB and do a great job.

    Milner is one of the world's top utility players. He cost £30m, his previous transfer fee was £12m, and he's turning 29 in two weeks - ie he's playing to his price tag, is at the top of his game, and has the luxury of being an impact sub at one of the top tier clubs of the world.

    For Henderson to match and better his statistics at the age of 24 is excellent. He's had a poor season so far but he still won us the West Brom game and it's not as if anyone else in our team except Kolo and Sterling have had a good season either.
    If you actually read what I said I said that is Henderson that much better than Ramires in an attacking sense. Considering Ramires generally played deep in a 4-2-3-1 he's not going to burst forward as much as Henderson anyway when Liverpool played 4-3-3/4-4-2 diamond which frees up Henderson in an attacking sense. We saw how toothless Henderson was in the world cup when England played 4-4-1-1 e.g.

    Also defensive stats wise Ramires is similar if not better than Henderson defensive wise bar for interceptions and he does better when taking on a player than Henderson.

    Milner is not playing to a 30M price tag but he's a useful player to have.
    Finally matching Milner's statistics when he barely got a run of games with over 1000 less minute than the other two isn't the most amazing. Henderson is currently overrated and requires top creative players next to him to hold his hand. Gerrard didn't need that.
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    (Original post by JamesR12)
    Also the idea of Henderson ending up in the number 10 role behind the strikers is simply laughable Zerf. One, because we have Sterling, Coutinho, Markovic etc all far more suited to the role, two because Henderson is frankly an awful finisher and not upto attacking midfielder standard AT ALL, and three because his best attributes (ie his work rate, defensive abilities and ability to circulate the ball) are all for central midfielders, not number 10s.
    I'm entitled to my own opinion.

    All of Sterling, Coutinho, Markovic etc need space to perform at their best. Why do you think Rodgers believes Sterling's best position is on the left flank? Because he can cut inside and attack with pace into the space (assuming he's beat the winger/fullback opposite him). When those three are crowded out or have a physical player sit on them (most teams will have a defensive midfield player operating in the hole) they all struggle more. Why have none of those 3 managed to make that position theirs so far?

    Defensive ability and workrate can be used in different ways. I'd use that from Henderson to press high up the pitch - it's something we see Barca, Bayern, Dortmund and Atletico all do - press high up the pitch to cause problems and create chances from that.

    Henderson might not have hit those heights yet with his goal scoring but it depends how you view things. He obviously has great technique on the ball which is why his passing is strong and he's starting to take more and more set pieces. When in a more attacking role, he does get into great positions and equally can make the runs from deep to support the striker. Rodgers hasn't played Henderson behind the striker so we haven't seen it yet.

    I think Henderson isn't dissimilar to a young Gerrard which Rafa Benitez then turned into a star attacking midfield player.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    If you actually read what I said I said that is Henderson that much better than Ramires in an attacking sense. Considering Ramires generally played deep in a 4-2-3-1 he's not going to burst forward as much as Henderson anyway when Liverpool played 4-3-3/4-4-2 diamond which frees up Henderson in an attacking sense. We saw how toothless Henderson was in the world cup when England played 4-4-1-1 e.g.

    Also defensive stats wise Ramires is similar if not better than Henderson defensive wise bar for interceptions and he does better when taking on a player than Henderson.

    Milner is not playing to a 30M price tag but he's a useful player to have.
    Finally matching Milner's statistics when he barely got a run of games with over 1000 less minute than the other two isn't the most amazing. Henderson is currently overrated and requires top creative players next to him to hold his hand. Gerrard didn't need that.
    Henderson has not played at the tip of the diamond for England or Liverpool. You could see for England that Henderson was paired with Gerrard in midfield and told not to advance. There was very little vertical movement and that looked to be a tactical decision.

    With Liverpool, Sterling, Coutinho or more recently Gerrard have played at the tip of the diamond. Henderson at best has been paired in the diamond central duo and more recently shunted out on the right flank as right wing back.

    I don't think Henderson has ever been given the same creative/free license that Gerrard has been given in the past/still does get given. Since Henderson can be such a utility player and follow the manager's tactics, he's usually asked to perform a specific role (like be anchor or always provide an option for a pass or cover the overlapping fullback etc).

    Henderson has been poorer this season than last. Sterling needs to improve his shooting ability and decision making before he makes a step up. Lallana needs to improve his strength and stamina (and involvement in the game). Coutinho needs to improve his passing as he often loses the ball. Markovic is nowhere near ready but looks exciting.
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    Our defence has been absolutely woeful for a long time now. Skrtel, Toure, Agger, Sakho were all at least decent CBs and have all struggled adjusting to Rodgers' system. You just don't suddenly become a bad CB like that. It seems like our whole defensive strategy is to press high and hope for the best. Pressing high only works if the whole team does it which we haven't always done. There's also been the added problem of Mignolet giving his defence the jitters. It's simply not good enough but I don't see it changing. Just got to hope our attack improves so we can do we what we did last year: score early and then afford to put numbers behind the ball and counter-attack.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    I think Henderson isn't dissimilar to a young Gerrard which Rafa Benitez then turned into a star attacking midfield player.
    Lmao no. Henderson has a restrictive passing range, and on the whole not great technical ability tbh. Guy is **** in the final third the same as Ramires, sorry James but they're both **** in the box. Henderson is a decent box-to-box player, nothing more really. His ball retention isn't bad to give him credit, as someone said he's not that great a utility man. Works well in a diamond though, think he'd do well in 4-3-3 as well.



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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Henderson has not played at the tip of the diamond for England or Liverpool. You could see for England that Henderson was paired with Gerrard in midfield and told not to advance. There was very little vertical movement and that looked to be a tactical decision.
    You've misread the point I said that in a 4-3-3 you have more attacking freedom than the 4-2-3-1 as a box to box midfielder as you have a guy behind to protect. Ramires barely had that so his stats look bad. Add to that he's not a starter like Henderson was as we played Luiz and Matic together second half of the season and Ramires got dropped.

    With Liverpool, Sterling, Coutinho or more recently Gerrard have played at the tip of the diamond. Henderson at best has been paired in the diamond central duo and more recently shunted out on the right flank as right wing back.

    I don't think Henderson has ever been given the same creative/free license that Gerrard has been given in the past/still does get given. Since Henderson can be such a utility player and follow the manager's tactics, he's usually asked to perform a specific role (like be anchor or always provide an option for a pass or cover the overlapping fullback etc).

    Henderson has been poorer this season than last. Sterling needs to improve his shooting ability and decision making before he makes a step up. Lallana needs to improve his strength and stamina (and involvement in the game). Coutinho needs to improve his passing as he often loses the ball. Markovic is nowhere near ready but looks exciting.
    That's not the point I'm trying to make the point is tactically Henderson was allowed to push forward more and he looked better because of it while Ramires rarely gets those same instructions so it's unfair to compare. In 10/11 and 11/12 he had his best seasons because Chelsea played 4-3-3 for majority of those seasons.

    Sterling honestly is just a slightly better version of Willian but playing in less conservative tactics. Of course he will surpass him though.
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    So, Berahino is top of our January shopping list according to pretty much every national newspaper.

    Why, Brendan? Why?
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    So, Berahino is top of our January shopping list according to pretty much every national newspaper.

    Why, Brendan? Why?
    He's having a delusion that he's on FM manager or similar

    I swear...
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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    He's having a delusion that he's on FM manager or similar

    I swear...
    Inb4 where is Freddy Edu

    Does anyone remember a striker you had called Craig Linfield? Man that guy have 19's and 20's in everything, funnily enough he was **** in actual games and scored about 10 games a season.


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    I've seen a few rumours saying we will re-sign Torres on loan... :shot:
 
 
 
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