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Labour MP Jo Cox killed in shooting incident in West Yorkshire Watch

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    (Original post by viddy9)
    I feel uncomfortable linking to a fascist website, but here goes...

    http://www.britainfirst.org/northern...-and-bradford/

    From the neo-Nazi fascists themselves.
    Looks slightly similar but I couldn't say with any certainty, which is probably why this hasn't appeared in the MSM yet.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    As above, I'm not defending anyone. I am -- or was -- asking certain people to pause their general flow of hysteria once in a while to actually demonstrate the links they're claiming exist.
    A photo in the Times shows him campaigning for Britain First. In his house they found Nazi regalia and far right literature. He bought a gun manual from a neo Nazi group.

    And on top of that he shouted 'Britain First' before he carried out the the killing, as reported by numerous witnesses.


    Yet some still refuse to admit and acknowledge this guy was far right. It's like debating with religious fanatics. You can show them logical evidence to prove all of their claims are wrong yet the just go 'screw logic and evidence, I'm right'


    It could scarcely be clearer he was a far right activist yet some people refuse to accept that he was.


    Now that he's been shown to be a Britain first activist I expect the same idiots to claim that Britain first is left wing...
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, my point was that a refugee isn't going to stay in Germany for 8 years and get a job, with the eventual plan of coming to the UK to be poorer by exploiting the Welfare state.

    It doesn't make any sense.
    Looks like you don't live in the real world. Well let me tell you there are people who were given EU passports in countries such as Sweden and have used it to come to the UK. The UK is like a magnet everyone wants to come here
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    A photo in the Times shows him campaigning for Britain First. In his house they found Nazi regalia and far right literature. He bought a gun manual from a neo Nazi group.

    And on top of that he shouted 'Britain First' before he carried out the the killing, as reported by numerous witnesses.


    Yet some still refuse to admit and acknowledge this guy was far right. It's like debating with religious fanatics. You can show them logical evidence to prove all of their claims are wrong yet the just go 'screw logic and evidence, I'm right'


    It could scarcely be clearer he was a far right activist yet some people refuse to accept that he was.


    Now that he's been shown to be a Britain first activist I expect the same idiots to claim that Britain first is left wing...
    You're concentrating on the wrong link. What I asked for evidence of was that Britain First as a group had encouraged violence, not that he was a Britain First supporter (as to that, as I've repeated many, many times now, I entirely do not care).

    I wasn't even claiming that they hadn't encouraged violence, just arguing that putting up a big picture of a scary looking white working class man doesn't in itself establish that link, as FoS appeared to think it did.
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    He doesn't look like a muslim. Even though this was a politically motivated attack, he isn't a terrorist, because he wasn't a muslim.

    Hey, let's not blame Nigel Farage or the leave campaign (who i support in leaving the EU btw and don't believe are linked to this event anyway) lets go and blame the Prophet Muhammed s.a.w as the direct reason for this MP being assassinated.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    You're concentrating on the wrong link. What I asked for evidence of was that Britain First as a group had encouraged violence, not that he was a Britain First supporter (as to that, as I've repeated many, many times now, I entirely do not care).

    I wasn't even claiming that they hadn't encouraged violence, just arguing that putting up a big picture of a scary looking white working class man doesn't in itself establish that link, as FoS appeared to think it did.
    Well they hold training camps, teaching them how to fight and go on about how they are going to take our country back.

    They certainly implicitly encourage hatred and aggression. Violence flows from that.
    A Britain first member committees a terrorist attack, they must take responsibility.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Well they hold training camps, teaching them how to fight and go on about how they are going to take our country back.

    They certainly implicitly encourage hatred and aggression. Violence flows from that.
    A Britain first member committees a terrorist attack, they must take responsibility.
    I agree. It's not so much the content (they don't seem to have encouraged violence or anything illegal) but the delivery. This is all too obvious in the terminology you often see used: "traitors", "destroying our country", "take back our country", etc. I can see how that sort of language could incite someone who is already mentally disturbed. I'm not one for sugar-coating language to avoid offending sensitive flowers, but this language is almost militaristic in nature and creates a culture in which fellow citizens are seen as "the enemy".
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    He doesn't look like a muslim. Even though this was a politically motivated attack, he isn't a terrorist, because he wasn't a muslim.
    See the IRA, widely described as terrorists, if you are going down that route.
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    I agree. It's not so much the content (they don't seem to have encouraged violence or anything illegal) but the delivery. This is all too obvious in the terminology you often see used: "traitors", "destroying our country", "take back our country", etc. I can see how that sort of language could incite someone who is already mentally disturbed. I'm not one for sugar-coating language to avoid offending sensitive flowers, but this language is almost militaristic in nature and creates a culture in which fellow citizens are seen as "the enemy".
    Agreed although I find his mental illnesses irrelevant. There are plentt on the far right who aren't mentally ill and there are plenty of mentally ill who don't commit terrorist attacks.
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    I know it sounds horrible but I just want to no his motive. Was it sickness or was it more. It doesn't change that the beautiful soul which was Jo Cox is no longer here...but it may give us something to learn from this horrific incident as in money invested into mental health etc
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    (Original post by ubiquitousking)
    First bold: I would consider murder to be irrational behaviour regardless of whether or not they had a mental illness.
    I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean, though as you seem to be talking about rationality specifically for the scenario, then you talk about it more generally (or, rather, more ambiguously). As in, particular mental illnesses can result in violent behaviour, however many do not result in violent behaviour: the lack of rational behaviour is probably not due to the MI (if he indeed has OCD), and the expectation is not idiotic. If you're talking about it generally, then I agree: people with MIs do sometimes behave irrationally.
    I was referring to rationality specifically for the scenario. Even people with OCD have been known to behave erratically and irrationally in violent situations. Aaron Ybarra pops to mind as a recent example. He was attempting to perform a mass shooting at Seattle Pacific University before he got disarmed. The Seattle police recently released CCTV footage of his actions, and they were very strange indeed. You could search for it yourself, I don't think I can link that type of content on TSR. I still hold my opinion - that it is idiotic to expect people with mental illness to behave rationally in such circumstances, depending on the mental illness. We don't know how severe Thomas Mair's OCD is. OCD can cause extreme violent behaviour.

    (Original post by ubiquitousking)
    Also, why does it matter whether expectations conform to reality? Doesn't stop you from contradicting yourself, it just means that at least one of your viewpoints is realistic...
    It does stop me from contradicting myself. Let's say x = rational behaviour in the context, and y = irrational behaviour in the context. Only x or y can occur. Assuming the chance of y occurring is greater than x, which is what I am assuming, then in my opinion it idiotic to assume x will occur in any given event instead of y. That does not mean however, that if x occurred, I must deny it, only that I would have been wrong.

    (Original post by ubiquitousking)
    Second bold: again, generally or specifically? What do we know, specifically, about his MI? Do we not "know" that factors other than his MI are more probable motivators for murder and thus it isn't unreasonable to have that expectation (that he was behaving rationally insofar that it wasn't likely due to his MI)? (I'm hoping your answer is "no" here... ;p)
    Generally, I can't see why expecting rational behaviour is idiotic, even if someone has a MI.

    Third bold: alright
    Spoiler:
    Show
    How do you make quotes separate such that you can address each on more precisely?
    We don't know to what extent political beliefs or mental illness motivated the attack on Jo Cox. Obviously the significance of each factor varies from situation to situation. Again, this is my opinion based on what I have seen and read about past incidents. Maybe we don't hear about sufferers from mental illness committing violence that is unrelated to their mental illness often is because it doesn't make for good news stories.

    You can move the part that says /QUOTE in brackets to split quotes, and then move the [QUOTE=....] to where you want the quote to begin again.
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    According to this man, nobody shouted Britain first

    Did anyone see that IMF crooked banker Christine Lagarde recently pleaded with Britain to remain in the EU? Do you think she's a good voice for the yes campaign?

    I thought the Left who seem largely in favour of the EU, were all against these crooks.. I guess not.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I'm simply teling you that Nazism is a far-right ideology. I don't know how it is that you're denying this.
    :burn:

    Let me get some sudo cream for that burn! :mwuaha:

    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    And i am telling you that it is something else, as far too many of the principles behind it don't follow right side thoughts.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    :burn:

    Let me get some sudo cream for that burn! :mwuaha:





    Posted from TSR Mobile
    What burn?
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    Thomas Mair had given his name as "death to traitors, freedom for Britain" while appearing in court. Make of that what you will.

    Unfortunately now that he has been charged, reporting restrictions have kicked in. We are unlikely to get much insight into his motives and state of mind until the case goes to trial.
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    At the trial this morning, when asked his name the defendant replied:

    'My name is death to traitiors, freedom for Britain'
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    I think its now beyond dispute that this person is an example of domestic far right terrorism
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    (Original post by Quantex)
    Thomas Mair had given his name as "death to traitors, freedom for Britain" while appearing in court. Make of that what you will.

    Unfortunately now that he has been charged, reporting restrictions have kicked in. We are unlikely to get much insight into his motives and state of mind until the case goes to trial.
    Nothing to do with the far right though mate...
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Nothing to do with the far right though mate...
    Based on what information has appeared in the media, I'll be amazed if his motives/intentions were not motivated by far right politics.
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    (Original post by Quantex)
    Based on what information has appeared in the media, I'll be amazed if his motives/intentions were not motivated by far right politics.
    It's beyond any reasonable doubt now. Yet no doubt some will still claim he wasn't far right.
 
 
 
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