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    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    And what about making up utter bull****, attributing it to Israel and/or the Jews, and 'opposing' that?
    Anything that implies Jews were behind 9/11 is clearly anti Semitic.

    Any criticisms of israels actions on gaza and the West Bank are not. Just as opposing North Koreas government does not make me racist against Koreans.

    Stop conflating nationality with religion.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Anything that implies Jews were behind 9/11 is clearly anti Semitic.

    Any criticisms of israels actions on gaza and the West Bank are not. Just as opposing North Koreas government does not make me racist against Koreans.
    What about making things up about Israel in gaza and the west bank and 'criticising' that?
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    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    What about making things up about Israel in gaza and the west bank and 'criticising' that?
    That's exceptionally rare that people 'make up' things. Equally many zionists make up things about Hamas and 'criticise' it.
    But still, no not anti Semitic unless they are making an attack on Judaism itself, not Israel.
    If one were to 'make up ' facts about the North Korean government does that make them racist towards Koreans? If one makes up facts about the Iraq war does that make them prejudiced against Christians?
    Stop conflating nationality, ethnicity and religion.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    That's exceptionally rare that people 'make up' things.
    (Original post by Fullofquestions1)
    Yeh its all one sided unfortunately. A couple months ago the bbc news reported a Israeli soldier died yet the same day 1000's of Palestinians where killed and yet nothing was mentioned on the news
    (Original post by Medic35)
    Yeah gaza was treated bad and israel laugh and still say they're the victims when Gaza has millions.of innocent children dead, that's all against the rules of war.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    (Original post by PrincessAnna)
    .

    Only 3 Isrealis Died whilst way over 10K Palestinians died including Children. Why do Jewish soldiers beat up kids, Like wtf.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Here are three examples of people making up massively inflated numbers, just from this thread in the last few days.

    (Original post by Fullofquestions1)
    There are convoys that go from the uk here and the only reason we can do things is because if any of the Israeli army was to do anything from a person from another country then it'd cause war and then we'd help fight against them
    Here is another example of someone making something up, from the same time period.

    That's only the most unambiguous examples.
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    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    Here are three examples of people making up massively inflated numbers, just from this thread in the last few days.



    Here is another example of someone making something up, from the same time period.

    That's only the most unambiguous examples.
    The first one the time frame was wrong. Thousands of Palestinians were killed - not on one day admitedly, over a few.
    Not that it changes the narrative much. It's a mistake on the behalf of the poster but it's not like he's purposely made something ridiculous up.
    The third one similar, the second one has his numbers wrong.

    None of them strike me as anti-semitic. None make a reference to Judaism or Jews. They could all do with double checking their facts, as can those on the Zionist side.

    But again, if I were to exaggerate the numbers killed in the Iraq war by Britian does that make me anti-Christian?

    Opposing Israel's actions is not anti-semitic. Unless an attack is made on Judaism itself which in none of the cases quoted it was.

    Stop conflating Israel with Judaism.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The first one the time frame was wrong. Thousands of Palestinians were killed - not on one day admitedly, over a few.
    Not that it changes the narrative much. It's a mistake on the behalf of the poster but it's not like he's purposely made something ridiculous up.
    The third one similar, the second one has his numbers wrong.
    These are statements which are not true about Israel/the Gaza war. All of them. Maybe they're not lies that they made up, maybe they're ones that they heard from someone else and didn't check. But they're spreading them, and you are making excuses for it. People are basing their opinions on these lies.
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    And these are only the most straightforward, the ones for which there is absolutely not weaseling out of that it is somehow a matter of opinion or arguable.
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    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    These are statements which are not true about Israel/the Gaza war. All of them. Maybe they're not lies that they made up, maybe they're ones that they heard from someone else and didn't check. But they're spreading them, and you are making excuses for it. People are basing their opinions on these lies.
    I'm not saying they're not wrong as in factually incorrect. I'm saying none of them were anti-semitic
    Unless you can prove they had anti-semitic motives. We all make factual errors, it doesn't make you a racist or anti-semite.
    What about the lies spread by the other side? Why no mention of them?

    None made a reference to Jews or Judaism. None are anti-semitic.
    Do not conflate Israel with Judaism.They are NOT the same.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I'm not saying they're not wrong as in factually incorrect. I'm saying none of them were anti-semitic
    Unless you can prove they had anti-semitic motives. We all make factual errors, it doesn't make you a racist or anti-semite.

    None made a reference to Jews or Judaism. None are anti-semitic.
    Do not conflate Israel with Judaism.They are NOT the same.
    You are speaking about antisemitism. I have been talking here just about lying about facts. Many, many people do not oppose israel, they oppose a made up israel that doesn't exist. You did it yourself earlier with the jew-only roads. Maybe you knew you were lying, maybe you were just repeating a lie someone else told you. But no, that doesn't neccesarily equate to antisemitism.


    We get into antisemitism when we realise that a lot of the lies, or a lot of the people making the lies, draw on classic antisemitism, and it's really very hard to disentangle it. Israel's enemies promote and teach the classic antisemitic conspiracy theories along with new lies they make up about israel and jews.
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    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    You are speaking about antisemitism. I have been talking here just about lying about facts. Many, many people do not oppose israel, they oppose a made up israel that doesn't exist. You did it yourself earlier with the jew-only roads. Maybe you knew you were lying, maybe you were just repeating a lie someone else told you. But no, that doesn't neccesarily equate to antisemitism.


    We get into antisemitism when we realise that a lot of the lies, or a lot of the people making the lies, draw on classic antisemitism, and it's really very hard to disentangle it. Israel's enemies promote and teach the classic antisemitic conspiracy theories along with new lies they make up about israel and jews.
    With regards to 'Jew only roads' I realised I have made a factual inaccuracy. Rather so they were roads which Palestinians could not travel on. Apologies for that. But the point stands, you have roads where one racial group is not allowed on.

    Stop conflating Israel and Judaism. Stop shouting down legitimate criticism of Israel. No one is above scrutiny, Israel included. You certainly seem to have a victim mentality.

    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    No you don't. There's no comparison. The type of thing that Israel gets raked over the coals for, that gets blown up into a major challenge to the very legitimacy of the state's existence, even when it's not made up, is so minor, so normal in most countries that similar things don't even register when people talk about these other countries. It's a total failure of perspective on the scales involved.
    No. I criticise Britain and America more so then I do Israel. Israel claims to be a democracy so it should be held to the standards of other democracies. Do you really want to be compared with Syria? And i do not hold Israel to a higher standard then I do to any other western country. Now you're 'making stuff up' claiming that I do.
    Since I'm Jewish, that must make you anti semitic...

    That initially sounds persuasive. But why does it seem then that the consensus on these other situations in the world is to ignore them and do nothing and not really care. Nothing seems really urgent. Except Israel.
    The situation in North Korea, even to the most extreme people is far more unanimous in terms of people accepting it's wrong. There is no logical argument you can make in favour of the North Korean government.
    There are however logical and persuasive arguments you can make both in favour or against Israel. I am opposed to Israel's actions, that doesn't mean I don't think there is no logic or reasoning behind their actions, just that I feel the logic and reasoning against them is stronger.

    As to why it gets more coverage. Well we give money to Israel for a start and Israel is seen as 'one of us' - a western country. So you can protest fro Britain to stop supporting Israel. You can't protest for Britain to stop supporting North Korea when it doesn't alrady.

    Add to that, Israel has a huge lobby of people supporting it in the UK and western world which will naturally draw opposing views. North Korea doesn't.
    No, it doesn't.

    I am focused on Hamas because they are sitting just a few dozen km away from me at the moment, planning to kill me and destroy my nation. Congolese rebels, however vile, are less likely to be giving that a go anytime soon.
    Your nation? Are you Israeli?
    And although I have sympathy with you having rockets a few km away from you, I have far more sympathy with Palestinain children sitting in the rubble of their homes and dead parents that the IDF destroyed and killed. They have it far, far worse then you do.

    You, again, have an excuse for having this be a top priority. You're a Jew. But do you think this should be at the top of the world's agenda?
    One of the most volatile regions in the world where we have a lot of involvement and influence? Yes, of course it should be a priority.

    I don't believe you oppose the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF in Gaza and the West Bank. I believe you oppose a made up pretend version of the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF in Gaza and the West Bank crafted by people who are motivated/inspired in large part by antisemitism and/or draw on antisemitic tropes.
    No. just No. I oppose Israel's actions, I oppose their decision to go in to Gaza. I oppose the building of settlements. Not a single one is driven by anti-semitism.

    In short,opposing Israel's actions is not anti-semitic. Stop with the victim mentality and stop shouting down legitimate criticism of the Israeli government. Most importantly stop conflating Judaism and Israel. They are not the same thing.
    Goodnight.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Also, to apply this logic to other situations, would it be OK for Sinn Fein to advocate moving millions of Southern Irish Catholics into Northern Ireland to create a Catholic majority there in order to bring about unification and "secure the safety and rights" of the Northern Catholics? Or for Serbia to move millions of Serbs into Bosnia or Kosovo for the same reasons (or indeed for Bosniaks, Croats or Albanians to advocate the same for their own groups)? The examples could go on. Indeed, you could say the same thing about colonising settlers.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Apart from the fact that quite a lot of Serbs, and others, did move into Bosnia and other places during the communist period (Radovan Karadžić was originally from Montenegro for example, and Bosnian Vice President Ejup Ganić and Chief of Staff Sefer Halilović are from Serbia), your parallel dosen't really stand because Serbs originally had their own national state in Serbia. But the Jews have no national state but Israel, and there was no realistic alternative for the fulfilment of their national aspirations.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    In short,opposing Israel's actions is not anti-semitic. Stop with the victim mentality and stop shouting down legitimate criticism of the Israeli government. Most importantly stop conflating Judaism and Israel. They are not the same thing.
    Goodnight.
    I don't agree with wildly flinging around accusations of anti-Semitism, as some pro-Israeli people do. But there is no doubt that much criticism of Israel does contain anti-Semitic tropes, and that the pro-Palestinian movement has been to a large degree infiltrated by some extremely poisonous elements.
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    (Original post by Shqiptare)
    Apart from the fact that quite a lot of Serbs, and others, did move into Bosnia and other places during the communist period (Radovan Karadžić was originally from Montenegro for example), your parallel dosen't really stand because Serbs originally had their own national state in Serbia. But the Jews have no national state but Israel, and there was no realistic alternative for the fulfilment of their national aspirations.



    I don't agree with wildly flinging around accusations of anti-Semitism, as some pro-Israeli people do. But there is no doubt that much criticism of Israel does contain anti-Semitic tropes, and that the pro-Palestinian movement has been to a large degree infiltrated by some extremely poisonous elements.
    Some does, the huge majority doesn't. Likewise some criticisms of the Palestinians are fuelled by islamaphobia but that shouldn't discredit the majority who could be said to have legitimate criticisms.

    Purposely Making false accusations of anti Semitism to try and shut down any legitimate criticism of the Israeli governments actions is as bad as anti Semitism itself.

    Opposing Israels actions is not anti Semitic.
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    (Original post by Shqiptare)
    Apart from the fact that quite a lot of Serbs, and others, did move into Bosnia and other places during the communist period (Radovan Karadžić was originally from Montenegro for example, and Bosnian Vice President Ejup Ganić and Chief of Staff Sefer Halilović are from Serbia), your parallel dosen't really stand because Serbs originally had their own national state in Serbia. But the Jews have no national state but Israel, and there was no realistic alternative for the fulfilment of their national aspirations.
    But I wasn't talking about 'fulfilment of national aspirations', just guarantee of rights and protection from discrimination. For which I fail to see why the presence or lack thereof of a majority nation-state for a particular group changes the condition of the parts of that group who are a minority in a different nation-state.
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    (Original post by PrincessAnna)
    How is it anti semitic, when its true.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I used to become sad when I would hear antisemitic conspiracy theories, now I smile because I don't know a single antisemite who isn't a chavtastic, low IQ'ed potential inbred who will never amount to anything in life.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    I used to become sad when I would hear antisemitic conspiracy theories, now I smile because I don't know a single antisemite who isn't a chavtastic, low IQ'ed potential inbred who will never amount to anything in life.
    Name:  weirdbeard2.jpg
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    he shoots he scores !!

    :borat:
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    Some zionist jews like to call people anti semetic when people criticize them and support muslims but the true meaning of being anti semetic is discrimination against ARABS as well. Look up the word semite.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    Name:  weirdbeard2.jpg
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    he shoots he scores !!

    :borat:
    Mashallah brudda bear
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    Mashallah brudda bear
    :five:
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    To any who don't see Zionism as essentially a settler-colonising mission:

    "Any native people – its all the same whether they are civilized or savage – views their country as their national home, of which they will always be the complete masters. They will not voluntarily allow, not only a new master, but even a new partner. And so it is for the Arabs. Compromisers in our midst attempt to convince us that the Arabs are some kind of fools who can be tricked by a softened formulation of our goals, or a tribe of money grubbers who will abandon their birth right to Palestine for cultural and economic gains. I flatly reject this assessment of the Palestinian Arabs. Culturally they are 500 years behind us, spiritually they do not have our endurance or our strength of will, but this exhausts all of the internal differences. We can talk as much as we want about our good intentions; but they understand as well as we what is not good for them. They look upon Palestine with the same instinctive love and true fervor that any Aztec looked upon his Mexico or any Sioux looked upon his prairie. To think that the Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the cultural and economic benefits we can bestow on them is infantile. This childish fantasy of our “Arabo-philes” comes from some kind of contempt for the Arab people, of some kind of unfounded view of this race as a rabble ready to be bribed in order to sell out their homeland for a railroad network.

    This view is absolutely groundless. Individual Arabs may perhaps be bought off but this hardly means that all the Arabs in Eretz Israel are willing to sell a patriotism that not even Papuans will trade. Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement.

    That is what the Arabs in Palestine are doing, and what they will persist in doing as long as there remains a solitary spark of hope that they will be able to prevent the transformation of “Palestine” into the “Land of Israel”.....

    Thus we conclude that we cannot promise anything to the Arabs of the Land of Israel or the Arab countries. Their voluntary agreement is out of the question. Hence those who hold that an agreement with the natives is an essential condition for Zionism can now say “no” and depart from Zionism. Zionist colonization, even the most restricted, must either be terminated or carried out in defiance of the will of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, continue and develop only under the protection of a force independent of the local population – an iron wall which the native population cannot break through. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs. To formulate it any other way would only be hypocrisy."

    - Ze'ev Jabotinsky
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Please use this thread for any discussion related to the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

    Previous thread: Mk III
    Peace peace for all mankind.
 
 
 
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