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    See, this sort of welfare, where it is targeted and enforced as to what is the benefit - i.e rather than just cash which any irresponsible parent can do what they like with - is something I agree with.
    What I don't agree with is the fact that this only looks like a pre-election bribe, with Labour attempting to guarantee a few more votes. I also don't agree that internet grants and personal laptops are a good way to spend money, investing in more libraries and or expanded IT sections would probably do a lot more for the few who don't have computers. And if we were to look at the broader picture of improving the welfare of those "less gifted" academically, investing in more apprenticeships rather than letting them fall into the cycle would be far better than providing them with a free laptop.

    As an aside, sort of, I've never once been in a public library and seen the computer section full.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    As an aside, sort of, I've never once been in a public library and seen the computer section full.
    That's not true of where I live; computer use is responsible for most library attendance for people who aren't OAPs. That said, I don't think it's a particularly fair insistence that money is given to libraries when libraries are funded by Local Government and, just at the moment, local government is pretty ****.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    That's not true of where I live; computer use is responsible for most library attendance for people who aren't OAPs. That said, I don't think it's a particularly fair insistence that money is given to libraries when libraries are funded by Local Government and, just at the moment, local government is pretty ****.
    Oh, I'd say that was true of my library too, and likely any library - probably more because relatively few people borrow books from libraries these days, rather than an insatiable demand for the computers. But what I said was that I'd never seen my library's computer suite full :p:

    If I was gordon brown then yes, I'd have probably proudly announced an increase in the funding of libraries, knowing full well that it would just be diverted money from other local services. But I understand that money doesn't grow on trees, so I wouldn't demand an increase in the funding of libraries and not increase local council funding proportionately.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    But what I said was that I'd never seen my library's computer suite full :p:
    Aye, I know that's what you said: I was simply saying that isn't true across the board. I regularly see the computer facilities in many of the local libraries I use across South Wales being full.

    If I was gordon brown then yes, I'd have probably proudly announced an increase in the funding of libraries, knowing full well that it would just be diverted money from other local services. But I understand that money doesn't grow on trees, so I wouldn't demand an increase in the funding of libraries and not increase local council funding proportionately.
    I stand by my point, however, that local government is pretty **** whether it's controlled by Labour, Lib Dem or Tory, and a lot of this stems from the old-men and bureaucrats who run local government. It's nepotistic and badly managed and needs a thorough running through with the parliamentary skewer or complete abolition.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Aye, I know that's what you said: I was simply saying that isn't true across the board. I regularly see the computer facilities in many of the local libraries I use across South Wales being full.



    I stand by my point, however, that local government is pretty **** whether it's controlled by Labour, Lib Dem or Tory, and a lot of this stems from the old-men and bureaucrats who run local government. It's nepotistic and badly managed and needs a thorough running through with the parliamentary skewer or complete abolition.
    I agree, I think Lib's bill dealt with it in a practical manner, shame it's hard for politicians to put a populist spin on a restructuring. I'm in a cynical mood today lol.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    I agree, I think Lib's bill dealt with it in a practical manner, shame it's hard for politicians to put a populist spin on a restructuring. I'm in a cynical mood today lol.
    I have to say that a great deal of the problem stems from the restructuring undertaken in the 1980s; throwing away local government responsibility for bus transport, for example, just ensured that they took their eyes off the ball; same goes for the introduction of the national curriculum: LEAs just don't have much a clue about what's going on because the relationship is between schools and national and devolved government. In almost all areas of local competency, the 1980s saw the removal of strong powers and their replacement with weak shadows. If you look at local government in the 1920s and 1930s then you can see how local government can operate with strong powers. Now, it's just a tier of government that can be removed without major issue.
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    Most libraries in my local area are usually packed for computers, and IIRC they had to install some at the local job centre to cope with demand.

    This is from about 2 years ago anyway.
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    Depends where you are. My local one is attached to my sixth form centre, and thus is commonly totally booked out in terms of computers. A few miles down the road, the computers are usually being used by older people. rarely one free.
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    My local library rarely has half the computers being used. What are computer prices in your areas though?
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    Can I ask what Labour's policy is on increasing qualifications requirements for teachers?
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    (Original post by jammythedodger)
    Can I ask what Labour's policy is on increasing qualifications requirements for teachers?
    y does there need to be one?
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    (Original post by lotsofsnails)
    y does there need to be one?
    Well, one would assume that raising qualifications may assist in raising standards of teaching. The two are not synonymous, but one can help assist the other.
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    labour lies remember---=referendum no more big bonuses british jobs for british poeple even go to war on a lie how can anyone with two brain cells vote for them please tell me
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    (Original post by jshipman4)
    labour lies remember---=referendum no more big bonuses british jobs for british poeple even go to war on a lie how can anyone with two brain cells vote for them please tell me
    As I'm in a funny mood I'll entertain your nonsense and rebuke it. Labour committed itself to a referendum on the Constitutional Treaty which, however similar the Constitution was to Lisbon, was abandoned by Brussels in favour of Lisbon. Therefore Labour has not lied about its commitments to give a referendum on the Constitutional Treaty.

    The war in Iraq was a mistake and a decision that I have never supported but it was a decision made by the entire House of Commons; both Tories and Labour members voted for it and they used their judgments on the information available at the time, which, let us remember, had been signed off by British intelligence services. If Labour has gone to war on the basis of a lie, it was a lie created from the evidence of the intelligence services and that is more deeply worrying, surely, than Labour's mistake.

    Finally, there are myriad reasons why a person with two brain cells would vote for Labour: massive investment in schools, serious efforts to tackle poverty in this country - which has had a particular impact on pensioner poverty and whilst efforts recently on child poverty have been frustrated many many children now live a life outside of poverty thanks to Labour's efforts. Let us not forget that it was the Tories who gave us the problem in the first place. In 1979, 1 in 6 children lived in poverty, by the time the Tories left office that was 1 in 3. A doubling of child poverty as a direct consequence of Thatcher's privatisation and free marketeering.

    No government gets every single thing right but this Labour government has done a lot of good in areas that were sorrily neglected by the Tories under Thatcher and Major and which will suffer under Cameron.
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    with that many posts who would believe you get a life
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    The war in Iraq was a mistake and a decision that I have never supported but it was a decision made by the entire House of Commons; both Tories and Labour members voted for it and they used their judgments on the information available at the time, which, let us remember, had been signed off by British intelligence services. If Labour has gone to war on the basis of a lie, it was a lie created from the evidence of the intelligence services and that is more deeply worrying, surely, than Labour's mistake.
    Meh, while there were intelligence failings, the lie sold by Labour (or Blair to be more precise - extremely unfair to blame the whole of Labour for Blair as some want to do), was not entirely based on that intelligence. What seems to have emerged from the Chilcot inquiry is that Blair had been planning to take us to war since early 2002. The intelligence on WMDs was a good piece of spin he could utilize to present it to parliament and the British public, but not the fundamental justification for going to war.

    I think there would have been a war in Iraq with or without that intelligence. They would have simply found another excuse or another way to present the war in order to get the go ahead.
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    (Original post by jshipman4)
    labour lies remember---=referendum no more big bonuses british jobs for british poeple even go to war on a lie how can anyone with two brain cells vote for them please tell me
    Minimum wage, tax credits, surestart, an economic stimulus mirrored by much of europe and the US?
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    (Original post by Mr_K_Dilkington)
    Meh, while there were intelligence failings, the lie sold by Labour (or Blair to be more precise - extremely unfair to blame the whole of Labour for Blair as some want to do), was not entirely based on that intelligence. What seems to have emerged from the Chilcot inquiry is that Blair had been planning to take us to war since early 2002. The intelligence on WMDs was a good piece of spin he could utilize to present it to parliament and the British public, but not the fundamental justification for going to war.
    Blair is one person, albeit a powerful one at the time. Had the nature of Prime Ministerial government in this country not been fundamentally altered by Thatcher's presidential style of leadership, I do not think that parliament could have been walked over in quite the fashion that it was. However, parliament is still ultimately responsible for the war.

    I think there would have been a war in Iraq with or without that intelligence. They would have simply found another excuse or another way to present the war in order to get the go ahead.
    There was a war because Parliament voted for it. US policy - according to Straw - had been for regime change since 1998 but because Clinton was not interested in it and nor was Congress it never happened. I think people so easily forget that honest parliamentarians said no to the war and so could a lot of other MPs but no they didn't. If people had listened to Robin Cook ... well.
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    (Original post by jshipman4)
    with that many posts who would believe you get a life
    S'called time management boyo.
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    paid bye labour
 
 
 
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