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    (Original post by layahudi)
    They only 'expire' if you don't lay a claim to it in that period, make no mistake Palestinians will always lay claim to their rightful land and property. The jews will never get away with this, the Palestinians will never forget nor forgive the jew thieving, not with bombs not with genocide not with time, today's orphans will be tomorrows freedom fighters, The jews must be made to pay for this or they will never learn.
    As long as the majority of Palestinians hold this view, their situation will not improve. Hatred is not productive. Sometimes you just have to move on. The Jews had their own nakba, and they moved on.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    But, given that if a religions doctrine becomes static it will likely lead to the death of that religion, surely the ones having thier loyalty questions should be the ones maintaining the old, archaic, unpopular in modern society doctrines?
    thats a very primitive mindset - in the 8th century it may have been true that to spread doctrine you had to conquer and snatch land, but in modern times its not true. lots of religions have survived anyway not by simply conquering their adherents. by taking a pre-medieval attitude and applying it to modern political affairs, you will simply invite conflict - as is the case in palestine
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    As long as the majority of Palestinians hold this view, their situation will not improve. Hatred is not productive. Sometimes you just have to move on. The Jews had their own nakba, and they moved on.
    SO just because the jews gave up their rights, their property and land and inflicted the same atrocities on Palestinians, the Palestinians should quietly accept it? I mean why stop at land why not follow the jews into the gas chambers, and when they die you can say well move on. How ridiculous.

    The objective is to liberate Palestine, from the river to the sea, not to pursue futile worldly goods, the former is what will improve the situation nto the latter which you are inferring.

    'If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?'
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    When you use kids in terrorism, they will die.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5e1_1405808219
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    (Original post by universal_set)
    Sadly, you are one of those many idiots who think they know everything but in fact you are just another frog in the well & you have zero logical sense. After reading couple of BS news articles you think that you were there when all major and minor historical events were happening.
    i dont read 'news articles' to get an understanding of historical events that post just demonstrates your lack of intelligence and knowledge to be able to discuss this topic. its easy to rile up ignorants with a bit of media jargon and rhetoric and stir emotion, but as show in your case most of those are not able to debate any matters with a basis of fact. the only real achievement to note here is that islamists are skilfully able to rile up people to have an uninformed opinion on this matter by somehow convincing them that the need to prevent palestine being governed by jews is an issue universal to all muslims
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    Israeli Zionists the root cause of all evil

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2741778
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    (Original post by layahudi)
    SO just because the jews gave up their rights, their property and land and inflicted the same atrocities on Palestinians, the Palestinians should quietly accept it? I mean why stop at land why not follow the jews into the gas chambers, and when they die you can say well move on. How ridiculous.

    The objective is to liberate Palestine, from the river to the sea, not to pursue futile worldly goods, the former is what will improve the situation nto the latter which you are inferring.

    'If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?'
    I wouldn't advocate more suffering, but we need to move on from suffering which occurred more than half a century ago. As long as people have this ridiculous "river to the sea" objective there will not be peace in Israel/Palestine.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    i dont read 'news articles' to get an understanding of historical events that post just demonstrates your lack of intelligence and knowledge to be able to discuss this topic. its easy to rile up ignorants with a bit of media jargon and rhetoric and stir emotion, but as show in your case most of those are not able to debate any matters with a basis of fact. the only real achievement to note here is that islamists are skilfully able to rile up people to have an uninformed opinion on this matter by somehow convincing them that the need to prevent palestine being governed by jews is an issue universal to all muslims
    Tut tut tut.....

    Once again, you are making no sense. You have no logical proof to prove your statements.
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    (Original post by layahudi)
    Israel is one big settlements, just like no one would tolerate a thief taking more than half their house and saying you can live in the other half only, Palestinians will never tolerate the European zionists taking more than half of Palestine.
    Will they tolerate the African Zionists or the American ones?
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    (Original post by layahudi)
    Israel is one big settlements, just like no one would tolerate a thief taking more than half their house and saying you can live in the other half only, Palestinians will never tolerate the European zionists taking more than half of Palestine.
    To be fair, Israel is not in Arabia - yet for some reason this Arabian fabricated entity called 'palestinans' sprang up and decided to claim the land.

    And despite not laying a single brick to build Jerusalem, claim it as THEIR city
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    (Original post by layahudi)
    It is universal to all Muslims, Islam commands the Muslims to act as one Ummah, if you refuse it, what kind of Muslim is that, you won't know because you are a filthy zionist.
    But who is it that determines the islamic and therefore the 'Ummahs' political agendas? it is the islamists. islamic agendas are based on islamic concerns , not reason or logic, which is why there is so much dissent over the palestine issue
    i dont care for your language, im sure you wouldnt want people to you use the same phrase for you.
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    (Original post by layahudi)
    No we don;t 'move on' we correct teh zionist wrong, whether it take 50 100 2000 or 20 000 years.
    That is the mentality which will keep the Palestinians forever oppressed and at war with Israel.

    Most certainly not, the only Jews who have all right are those and their descendants who lived their before the zionists declared war by self declaring a state. The irony being that most zionists aren't even proper jews. I mean what kind of nation state for Jews hosts a gay city in Tel Aviv
    So why did you mention specifically European Zionists?

    Yes, Israel is not a religious state, it is a secular state. That is why I support it. That is why I oppose all current attempts to create a Palestinian state.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    thats a very primitive mindset - in the 8th century it may have been true that to spread doctrine you had to conquer and snatch land, but in modern times its not true. lots of religions have survived anyway not by simply conquering their adherents. by taking a pre-medieval attitude and applying it to modern political affairs, you will simply invite conflict - as is the case in palestine
    I think all you have to do is look at the CoE, and most Christian denominations, to see that the claim is true. They're changing their doctrine to keep up with the times.
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    (Original post by Chindits)



    Yet no street demonstrations. No boycott campaigns.

    200,000 dead in Syria, where was 'stop the war coalition' ? nowhere to be seen.

    The day Israel starts retaliating to rockets, 'stop the war' coalition suddenly crawl back out from under their rock.




    There is no such thing as "disproportion" in conflict. In fact, the whole point of conflict is to inflict a disproportionate amount of force on your enemy to gain victory.

    British troops have lost 453 men in Afghanistan. How many Afghans do you think have been killed?

    NATO (including British troops) are using Apache attack helicopters, drones, AC-130's against cave-dwelling Taliban with AK47's an RPG's - is that disproportionate?

    In response to V2 rockets fired by Germany, the British replied with fire-bombing whole German cities like Dresden, killing tens of thousands. Was that disproportionate?

    Parroting the media's use of "disproportion" only leads you to make a fool of yourself.

    No other country is accused of "disproportionate" force.

    Have you ever heard it mentioned when we went into Iraq? did the BBC say how disproportionate it was that Iraqi militia were being hit with drones?



    Oh and Arab conquests happened centuries ago? my dear, they're still ongoing. Ask Africa how they're getting on.

    Sudan where the Arab Muslims butchered 250,000 indigenous blacks in Darfur.
    The only one making fool of yourself is you. There has been plenty of discussion about human right abuses about Syria, coming from our very own government which for a while considered a military involvement in Syria, and only decided against that as with our economy being **** and UK being involved in many military conflict already simply couldn't afford to. Everyone is speaking about against Syria, parents whose children decided to go and become terrorist their kids actually report them to authorities, it was a major news topic just before the Israeli-Palestinian conflict started. But there is a clear difference between a civil war in Syria and the brutal occupation and blind persecution of one nation by another. Not only that, but whilst everyone in media and politics was shouting from rooftops about Assads atrocities, most media outlets and government spokespeople have an incredibly biased and one sided coverage of the conflict, sweeping aside the massive number of Gaza casualties and focusing solely on Israel's right to defend itself, conflating everyday Palestinians with Hamas and deflecting any criticism by saying that it's all Hamas' fault.

    Yes, there is such thing as disproportionate, and of you think that UK was not critiqued about the massive civilian casualties, or that UK soldiers that have breached human rights whilst in Afghanistan were not called into account, you must have been living under a rock.
    Moreover, even if UK government was deliberately targeting Afghan schools and hospitals in their strikes, and was successful in killing as many children as possible, how would it make what IDF is doing any better? Two wrongs don't make a right, and bleating that someone else does it too, doesn't make your actions any better.

    Please don't conflate Talibans who UK forces were fighting, with ordinary Afghans. It means that either UK forces were fighting against all Afghans or that you simply merge an organisation with an entire nation, without any justification for doing so. Though I'm not surprised at that, given that all Palestinian casualties in this conflict are related to Hamas, according to IDF.

    By your logic, no one should mourn the Israeli civilian that died recently- after all he's the collateral damage if the war, and as such is less of a tragedy than a victim of a plane crash. Or is it different story for him because he's not an Arab and his life has more value?

    The slaughter in Sudan is not a conquest, it's an act of terrorism- I don't see the whole world accepting the government created by Arab Muslims that butchered the indigenous population, they are seen as a rogue state, and billions and trillions of aid from USA and Europe doesn't flow there.
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    (Original post by layahudi)
    There is nothing political in saving fellow muslims from tyranny, whether that is in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Burma or zionist occupied Palestine. .
    it is essentially a political agenda legitimised (in the muslim world) by islamic doctrine. but in reality politcs is never as black and white ie you think you are 'saving fellow muslims' in syria, by murdering more syrian muslims? you are 'saving' palestinian muslims- by firing rockets at israeli cvilialins and provoking airstrikes on gaza?
    and in terms of burma - how much attention do you think that gets from the arab islamists, compared to palestine? See, when islamic reasoning is used for politics, there is no logic that follows, only idiocy.


    (Original post by layahudi)
    As we saw from the arab spring Muslims will fight for the liberation of fellow muslims no matter where it is, its the zionist who think the struggle against the filthy zionist occupation is the only struggle, it isn't but boy will we continue the fight as one Ummah no matter how long it takes.
    arab spring was nothing to do with ' fight for the liberation of fellow muslims' in many cases it was a demand for a more western style democracy ( and fyi it was another fight against other muslims, so not as one Ummah at all)
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    That is the mentality which will keep the Palestinians forever oppressed and at war with Israel.



    So why did you mention specifically European Zionists?

    Yes, Israel is not a religious state, it is a secular state. That is why I support it. That is why I oppose all current attempts to create a Palestinian state.
    Because the European filthy zionists are the ones who mostly stole land that is why, one wishes all the filthy zionist were gassed and we would not have this issue today but hey ho.

    Israel claims its 'right to exist; from a religious point of view hence why it is called Israel and then abominates the holy land with gay behaviour, oh my lord what filth has accumulated on the promised land. God will deliver on his promise as he always does. He promised the jews would return to the land for the third time, they have done so. He promised the jews would create mischief in the land for a third time, and they are. And he promised the jews would be disgraced for the third time, and Wallahi they will be. 10 years 100 years 100 000 years, the wait will be worth it, measured in every drop of blood spilt, ever single drop.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    I oppose settlement expansion, but the current crisis has nothing to do with it whatsoever.
    You might oppose settlement expansion, but it's still ongoing. And it's a part of the problem in this conflict, because it's one of many violations of international law that Israel participates in. The Gaza Strip itself is heavily blockaded from both sides, and yes, Egypt is also complicit in the blockade, it's entire population is between the rock and a hard place, and they simply have nowhere to go- where are they supposed to evacuate? What exactly re they supposed to build bomb shelters with?


    P.S My reference to settlements was in reply to your question about whether Jews have a right to Israel, though I stand by my opinion that it has a role in current crisis.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I think all you have to do is look at the CoE, and most Christian denominations, to see that the claim is true. They're changing their doctrine to keep up with the times.
    you dont think islam has changed its doctrine to keep up with times? why do you think hadith writers had a job for 250 years after the quran was written ? or that islam still needs fatwas and decrees from thousands of sheikhs clreics and muftis?


    it is not the point that faiths have to adapt, but in the case of islam, a vocal islamist group still has the power to indoctrinate over political matters, whereas CoE in general does not
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    Or perhaps you will not attempt to prove your non-point not because 'I won't believe you' but because you have nothing logical going for your argument. All you can cling to for assurance is a whimsical gut feeling. I have an interest in many conflicts, and have read extensively of many, and I certainly have not come across what you say you noticed. Why, nobody even on this thread refers to Israel's 'bloodthirstiness' bar me. If you have tangible evidence then by all means bring that up; until you do so, I will dismiss your claim as utterly irrelevant, deliberately misleading hokum.
    Look at post 203 on page 11, where someone refers to Israel as a "bloodthirsty bestial being".

    Still, I admit that it's nothing that can be really "proven" objectively without a statistical analysis of thousands of articles. It's just a trend that becomes apparent eventually if you pay specific notice to the use of language.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    When he says it's "nothing special" - he's of course downplaying it because he's anti-Israel.

    The Iron Dome is extremely sophisticated and very few such systems exist. The Iron Dome is the only system to have been tested to the extent this has and has a higher intercept record than all other systems.

    When Israel initially considered producing this system, the Americans told them to forget it as it was too difficult and the results would not be worth it.
    I shall build on my previous statements, on top of stating that it isn't anything particularly special, or complex, I shall add this: just because an individual finds something complex doesn't mean it is, for instance, some people find the concept that 22=4 complex, but it hardly is.

    As for the point that "very few such systems exist", well, debatably wrong again. I propose you look at this article and educate yourself on at least one thing.
    Similar systems have been in development since the 50s, although the first successful one didn't start development until 1971, and have existed since not long after that.
    Three systems cuerrently in use are capable of taking out ICBMs (The Americans have one, Russians have one, third it doesn't actually specify, but may be referring to a planned one in Europe), but the Americans had a system used in parts iof '75 and '76
    Primitive systems using Radar and a 90mm AA gun were 95% effective vs V1s in WWII, although completely ineffective against V2s due to their ballistic trajectory.
    As for current use:

    • USA has a few, one of which was 100% effective in Iraq.
    • Russia, along with it's main Moscow ICBM defence capable system, has several others
    • China has a few (and is still developing more)
    • UK/France/Italy jointly developed a family of weapons
    • Since 1998 when North Korea demonstrated its capabilities with Taepodong-1 it has been developing and possibly has now installed (old information) its own system
    • India has a system
    • Israel currently have 2 and are developing David's Sling
    • Taiwan is developing


    Not that rare, and given that the USA has had similar (and in many ways more useful) systems over 3 decades before the Israelis I'm pretty sure that "too difficult" line is a total lie.
 
 
 
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