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Do you agree with Same-sex marriage? watch

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  • View Poll Results: Do you agree with Same-sex Marriage?
    Yes!
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    NO!!!
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    (Original post by saxsan4)
    They should be allowed if they want to
    indeed she is. But she's not allowed to enforce it on others. Denying someone the ability to marry someone else because of your opinion is unacceptable.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Nah, Christians feel they can't go against it because they are already prejudice. The Bible says a tonne of things the average if not majority of Christians do not follow. You pick and choose when it is convenient for you.
    How can you say we are already prejudice? A lot of biblical things are taken out of context. For example, take Timothy 2:11-12 - “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.” This was a letter from Paul.

    I quote from https://christianfeminism.wordpress.com/:
    Paul’s letters are alreadydifficult to interpret because they are like listening to one side of atelephone conversation, but faulty translations only further complicate ourunderstanding of his words. There are a few key words that are conveniently mistranslated in 1Timothy 2: 11-15.
    Hesuchios/Hesuchia:Traditionalists normally translate this word as “silence” (at least in passagesconcerning women), but the word in all other places is translated as“peacefulness” “Peaceable” or “quietness.” The word does not carry the meaningof literal silence or absence of speech, but of an atmosphere or presence inwhich learning should take place. Strong’s Greek Dictionary defines hesuchios/hesuchias as “properly,keeping one’s seat,” “stillness” “undisturbed,” “undisturbing,” and“peaceable.”
    When Paul has absence ofspeech in mind, he uses the term “sigao.”The same word is used just nine verses earlier and is translated as“peaceable,” 1 Timothy2:1-2. Hesuchios/hesuchia is translated as quiet/quietness in 1 Thess. 4:11,2 Thess. 3:12,1 Peter 3:4.None of these verses are about silence, as in the literal absence of speech,but a tranquil quietness orpeaceable presence/environment. This fits the context much better than aliteral silence, since Paul just rebuked the men in the congregation for praying while angry and quarreling.Obviously, this would NOT be the optimum environment for anyone to learn in.Thus, Paul tells Timothy to make sure the woman can learn in quietness orpeacefulness, and not amid the chaos that was taking over church meetings.
    Paul also instructs that womenshould learn in full submission. This is not a unique request asked only ofwomen, but men are also suppose to learn in full submission to the gospel andsound teaching. The reason this command is directed toward women here is onlybecause teaching women in the same way as men was still a revolutionarypractice and still repulsive to many men, believers or not.
    Now, onto the grand-daddy ofmistranslations and controversy….
    “…nor to have authority over [authentein]a man…”
    Exousia is the normal wordused for “authority,” a carrying out of one’s official duties. But this is notthe word Paul uses here. He instead picks the word authentein and it is the ONLY time this word appears in the NewTestament. Exousia, however,appears over 100 times. Other uses of authenteinfrom the same time period showthat this word does not simply mean legitimate or routine authority, butcarries violent, sexual, and dominating meanings.
    Authentein.Itcannot be stressed enough how unusual this word is, especially for Paul. Paulwrites about authority quite a bit and he never uses authentein as a synonym for legitimate, godly authority. Formost mentions of authority, he uses exousia.Louw and Nida’s Lexicon lists 12 common ancientGreek words that are synonyms for routine or legitimate authority, exousia being the most commonthroughout the new testament. There are 47 words that are synonyms forlegitimate “rule” or “governing.” Yet Paul uses none of these words in 1Timothy 2:11, he chooses the unusual authentein.We do not find any evidence that authentein,in any of its forms, connotates a routine or legitimate authority until the late third to fourth centuries,far too removed from Paul’s era to provide relevant meanings and contexts. Andeven once the word took on a less severe meaning in later centuries, THISpassage was ALWAYS been understood as Paul forbidding women to dominate a man,not simply exercise legitimate Christ-like authority. Consider these earlytranslations: OldLatin Version from the second –fourth century translates this verse as “I permit not a woman to teach, neitherto dominate a man {neque dominari in viro}.
    The Vulgate, from the second to fourth century, translates this verse as “I permitnot a woman to teach, neither to domineer over a man {neque dominari in virum}.
    “There is a basically unbroken tradition, stemmingfrom the oldest version and running down to the twenty first century, thattranslates authentein as “to dominate” and not “to exercise authority over.”-Linda Belleville
    It is not until the 1500s thatthe verb authentein used inthis verse changes from the drastically negatively-charged “todominate/domineer” to a slightly water-downed phrase, “to usurp authority”(thanks, King James). Still different from exercising legitimate authority, butmuch less forceful than the violent and even sexual connotations of theoriginal authentein. The KingJames version asserts that women are not to wrestle authority or seize it frommen. No believer is permitted to usurp authority or act in self-interest overothers. It is not until after World War II that authentein really gets the botched-translated: “to exercise/assume authority over.”That’s right, less than 80 years ago! So, the notion that women may neverexercise godly authority within the body based on this verse is completelyunbiblical, both logically and historically.
    ExegeticalFallacies in Interpreting 1 Timothy 2:11–15
    This is by far the best article I’ve read on 1 Timothy 2:11-12. LindaBelleville, a new testament professor, put together a thorough and compellingpaper on 5 exegetical fallacies concerning 1 Timothy 2:11-12 :Contextual/historical, Lexical, Grammatical, Cultural, and Doctrinal. Sheprovides a thorough survey of the early uses of authenteo, in all its forms. This is a MUST read to gain aproper understanding of the egalitarian position. (update: this article is nolonger free but has a small charge)

    Catherine C.Kroeger also put together a brilliant survey of authentein (and all it’ssister-nouns/adjectives) uses from before Paul up until the third and fourthcenturies. I would particularly challenge Tonya and Catrina to read thesearticles in full before giving me CBMW rebuttals.
    These combined articles findthat early uses of authentein(in its noun, verb, and adjective forms) collectively mean “criminal mastermind,” “a perpetrator,” “onewho slays with his own hand,” “self-murder,” “women who can command domesticand sexual services from their male concubines,” “incestuous sex and murder,”“religious sexual orgies,” “to dominate,” “to control,”“to restrain,” and “to domineer.”
    Hardly the meaning we find in modern translations of 1 Timothy 2:11.
    One of the earliest meaningsto authentein is the act ofmurder or the act of violence.
    Wisdom ofSolomon 12:6, an apocrypha book translated into ancient Greek,considered “scripture” by both Jews and Christians until the second century AD,uses a form of authentein.
    “Withtheir priests out of the midst of their idolatrous crew, and the parents, that killed with their own hands [authentas]souls destitute of help.”
    Ancient Greek grammarians andlexicographers define authenteinas “to dominate,” “to control, restrain, and domineer.” It is also classifiedas a “vulgar” term, possibly because of it’s sexual uses.
    Other notable uses of the word include:
    Josephus, the famous Jewishhistorian from Paul’s own time, used the noun form, authenten, to describe the“author” of a poisonous drink. Diodorus of Sicily wrote about the “sponsors” (authentas) of daring plans andthe “perpetrators” (authentas) of a crime. John Chrysostom, an earlychurch father, used the same word, authentiato express “sexual license” orperverse sexual practices. Clement, another early church father, linkedthe word with women involved in sexualorgies.
    Catherine Kroeger makes anexcellent analysis of the implications of the original meaning of authentein:
    “Chrysostom[the early church father] uses autheritia to denote “sexual license.” If theword in this context refers to sexual behavior, it puts a quite differentinterpretation on the entire passage. For instance, if we were to translate thepassage, ‘I forbid a woman to teach or discuss higher algebra with a man,’ wewould understand the prohibition to be directed against instruction inmathematics. Suppose it read, ‘I forbid a woman to teach or talk Japanese witha man.’ Then we infer that the injunction applies to the teaching of language.‘I forbid a woman to teach or dangle a man from a high wire’ would presupposethat the instructor was an aerialist. ‘I forbid a woman to teach or engage infertility practices with a man’ would imply that the woman should not involve aman in the heretical kind of Christianity which taught licentious behavior asone of its doctrines. Such a female heretic did indeed ‘teach to fornicate’ inthe Thyatiran church mentioned in Revelation 2:20 (cf. 2:14f.;Num. 25:3;31:15f.).
    Toooften we underestimate the seriousness of this problem for the New Testamentchurch. A passage in 2 Peter expresses concern not only for those drawn intothis error but also for the illegitimate children which it produced:
    ‘But Israel had false prophets as well as true; andyou likewise will have false teachers among you. . . . Having eyes full ofadultery, that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls, an heart theyhave exercised with covetous practices; cursed children which have forsaken theright way … following the way of Balaam…. They utter big empty words, and makeof sensual lusts and debauchery a bait to catch those who have barely begun toescape from their heathen environment (2:1,14f.,18).'”
    Others have conducted in depthword studies on authentein withsimilar results…
    Dr. David H. Scholer sitesLeeland Edward Wilshire’s exhaustive study of the word authentien.“Wilshire is the first to use the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)computer database, which contains virtually all three thousand ancient Greekauthors from Homer to A.D. 600. The database showed that authentein and itscognates occurred about 330 times and over a large number of centuries almostexclusively meant “a perpetrator of a violent act, either murder or suicide.”
    But there is no evidence from the first century that authentein means ordinary orlegitimate authority. Nothing exists until the late third and fourth centuriesto suggest other meanings, and even then, the verse in question stilltranslates authentein as “dominating men” or “domineer over men.”

    Paul is not allowing a woman to teach others to dominate men, to teach thedomination of men, nor to dominate a man themselves, but to be peaceable (heshucias). This verse has nothing todo at all with mature, trained christian women exercising their spiritual giftsand serving the body through teaching, preaching, or leading. These were womenled astray by false teaching, whom Paul is correcting in these verses and whomust start at the beginning with full submission to the gospel and soundteaching.

    He ties in the creation storyto draw a correlation between Eve being deceived by the voice of false teachingand these women. It is a reminder to the church of the devastating effects offalse teaching and deception.
    I know someone is going to say, “Well,if Paul is forbidding dominating others as opposed to holding mere authorityand it’s wrong for all believers to dominate each other, why does Paul onlyaddress this to women?” Consider that HERE IN THIS LETTER, Paul iscorrecting the ones exhibitingspecific behaviors. Consider that Paul only tells the men to lift up holy handsin prayer without anger or disputing. Now, just because he only directs the menhere in this verse, does that mean women shouldn’t lift up holy hands? Does itmean women are free to be angry and constantly disputing in or out of church?Of course not. But the men in the body were the ones exhibiting this behavior,so Paul only addresses them, even though it’s inappropriate for all believersto behave that way. Likewise, he only addresses the women about dominating andseizing authority through false teachings, possibly sexual ones, because they were the ones doing it in thisinstance.
    Consider this reality ofancient Greek culture pointed out by Catherine Koeger:
    “Virtuallywithout exception, female teachers among the Greeks were courtesans, such asAspasia, who numbered Socrates and Pericles among her students. Active in everymajor school of philosophy, these hetairai (high-class, intellectual prostitutes)made it evident in the course of their lectures that they were availableafterwards for a second occupation. But the Bible teaches that to seduce men insuch a manner was indeed to lead them to slaughter and the halls of death (cf.Prov. 2:18;5:5;7:27;9:18). The verb authentein is thus peculiarlyapt to describe both the erotic and the murderous.”
    It becomes overwhelming clearfrom the well-documented culture of Ephesus coupled with the original wordmeanings used in 1 Timothy 2:11-12, that this mandate is not a prohibitionagainst all women teaching/preaching/leading in the church. It’s simply absurdto keep gifted and qualified women from teaching the truth of the gospel,leading church bodies in the ways of Jesus, or simply contributing their giftsby vocally participating in the gatherings of the entire body because of averse that was originally a disciplinary action against women at Ephesus, who werelead astray by false teaching."

    Good Day!
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    (Original post by FollowingJC24/7)
    Good Day!
    Do you even think I'll read that?

    No, I've seen enough of your ludicrous, idiotic, comments to make my judgement. I'm not wasting my time reading some bull**** you copied from some Christian website. You can't even admit your faith is an entire contradiction. Lmao.
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    Anybody who disagrees with same sex marriage is a backward homophobe


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Anybody who disagrees with same sex marriage is a backward homophobe


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    Or religious


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Anybody who disagrees with same sex marriage is a backward homophobe


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    Or alternatively just opposes marriage full stop.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Or religious


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    It's not as if the two are mutually exclusive.

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    (Original post by paul514)
    Or religious


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    Religious belief isn't a legitimate excuse for being homophobic.

    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Or alternatively just opposes marriage full stop.
    Well yes I suppose. I hadn't considered that because I've never met anybody who is completely opposed to anybody getting married



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    • Welcome Squad
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    (Original post by Howard)
    We do indeed. Even working in construction management we take the piss. I often answer my phone in a camp voice saying "good morning gay bathhouse" (after checking whose calling) It's just having a laugh really.
    Tbf I'm an army cadet, so I agree

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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Religious belief isn't a legitimate excuse for being homophobic.



    Well yes I suppose. I hadn't considered that because I've never met anybody who is completely opposed to anybody getting married



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    I'm yet to meet someone who is scared of gay people.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    I'm yet to meet someone who is scared of gay people.


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    Phobia doesn't only mean fear, it means aversion too.

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    So phobia now means dislike or disagree..... Lol


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    (Original post by paul514)
    So phobia now means dislike or disagree..... Lol


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    With regard to homophobia yes, just like words like 'den' and 'ship' don't have their conventional meaning when used in other words


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    Respect the bible (book of Tim)

    And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    Yes
    Cool i want in... the only drawback is you can not push me off the tower!!!
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    (Original post by Amankhanhussain)
    Pakistan . where it is banned already .
    So it should not be a problem then... there is no same sex marriage so why are u even debating about it you hate them already???

    (Original post by Amankhanhussain)
    well then heterosexual is more natural. someone can't have happy life being homosexual. they have a lot problems than a heterosexual face.
    Yes heterosexual is not more natural. Gays are also natural we were not born in test tubes for your information... Exacltly Homosexauls can not be happy because your people despise homosexuals and it is kinda of hard to be happy when you're being hated and could be killed if people find out you're gay. And i believe you should of packed you're bags a long time ago and hit the road running because you seem unhappy and running away from "YOUR" country would help alot.
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    (Original post by Onde)
    I'm in favour of same-sex marriage being legal, although it might be inconvenient if I was in one.
    How so???
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    Didn't vote because it's not for me to agree or disagree with. Or anyone else here.

    Do what you want, doesn't affect me.
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    (Original post by bardnnyc)
    Men shouldn't be penetrating each other's butts and women shouldn't do same with fake dicks to fellow women neither they be licking each others cracks.
    Who says so? You? under what authority?
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    (Original post by bardnnyc)
    I am a backward retrogressive homophobe and I'm phucking proud of it.

    Men shouldn't be penetrating each other's butts and women shouldn't do same with fake dicks to fellow women neither they be licking each others cracks.

    Why are people scared of being called homophobes?
    Do you know why i am not liked by homophobes??? You obviously don't so i will tell you... Homophobes sre me as a bully because i go against thrre religion i thrn there own words against them. And i will use everything in my power to make you stop your posting. I do not use threats nor do i use swearing to do it. So turn around and walk away before your feelings get hurt

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