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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The next time the Tories are in government I expect to see at least three statements a week for the entire term.
    Have we said we want 3 statements a week? (Well, I don't think we have...!) Just more often than currently...
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Agreed, but I'd rather see the money spent on other things.
    What's more important than making sure that CPC delegates can get between London and the conference faster?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What's more important than making sure that CPC delegates can get between London and the conference faster?
    Haha
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Actually you are advocating a limitless growth model which doesn't exist.
    I'm advocating a fertility rate of 2.1, the SUSTAINABLE, COLOUMN model. A rate that no developed country on Earth can achieve. What are you going to do to reach it?

    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    A government where not every single member agrees on every single issue. That is healthy.
    So are you saying you just don't know the answer to the most important question in this country's future existence?
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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    I'm advocating a fertility rate of 2.1, the SUSTAINABLE, COLOUMN model. A rate that no developed country on Earth can achieve. What are you going to do to reach it?



    So are you saying you just don't know the answer to the most important question in this country's future existence?
    Yes, but you are aware of what the dependency ratio is right? If we increase the number of children (who don't work) at the same time as we increase the number of OAP's (who don't work) we are put under a lot more strain. It is better to just wait for the baby boomers to die then re-stabilise population growth afterwards so minimise strain on our services.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Yes, but you are aware of what the dependency ratio is right? If we increase the number of children (who don't work) at the same time as we increase the number of OAP's (who don't work) we are put under a lot more strain. It is better to just wait for the baby boomers to die then re-stabilise population growth afterwards so minimise strain on our services.
    What you're proposing though is to have a slightly lower peak ratio, but have the higher ratios for much longer and having the population crash, in effect you're saying "we should solve the problem by not solving the problem", I think for once your cull the elderly idea is one of your better ones.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Yes, but you are aware of what the dependency ratio is right? If we increase the number of children (who don't work) at the same time as we increase the number of OAP's (who don't work) we are put under a lot more strain. It is better to just wait for the baby boomers to die then re-stabilise population growth afterwards so minimise strain on our services.
    You don't seem to have a structured plan for at what population density / dependancy ratio you will call it enough and start increasing the birth rate. (Nor did you say how.)

    If you are also worried about strain on services, keep in mind that the more you wait, the more old people you will have from this current working generation, and the less working people from those who are now children.

    Immigration is probably a bigger problem for services. Not only do they bring in a lot of children, but the fact that they tend to return to their countries after a decade or two makes supplying them services difficult because a lot of investment could end up useless soon.
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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    You don't seem to have a structured plan for at what population density / dependancy ratio you will call it enough and start increasing the birth rate. (Nor did you say how.)

    If you are also worried about strain on services, keep in mind that the more you wait, the more old people you will have from this current working generation, and the less working people from those who are now children.

    Immigration is probably a bigger problem for services. Not only do they bring in a lot of children, but the fact that they tend to return to their countries after a decade or two makes supplying them services difficult because a lot of investment could end up useless soon.
    Just because I didn't say a number doesn't mean I don't have one. But right now there is a lot of Strain on the education and healthcare systems, I would keep an anti-natal program going until about 2050 if I had the power and then as long as our education system is working again I would end the program.

    As for immigration, to put it in a way that you might understand think of it as buying a dog. You don't want a puppy because you don't want to train it but you really want a dog. So what you do is get a full grown dog who is already fully trained.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Just because I didn't say a number doesn't mean I don't have one. But right now there is a lot of Strain on the education and healthcare systems, I would keep an anti-natal program going until about 2050 if I had the power and then as long as our education system is working again I would end the program.

    As for immigration, to put it in a way that you might understand think of it as buying a dog. You don't want a puppy because you don't want to train it but you really want a dog. So what you do is get a full grown dog who is already fully trained.
    There's several problems here...

    1. There is no "anti-natal program" .... the UK, and any country in the world, has no control over it's declining (NATIVE) population. It's a demographic wilderness, not a controlled program.

    2. After 2050 HOW will you stop population decline and ensure it's at replacement level?

    3. I get that migrants are beneficial. They are overall productive. However, what's being ignored is that they put pressure on national resources by a) a HUGE population fluctuation and b) by (some of them, at least) giving birth to their own children, with ferilities of about 8.0, and so increasing the strain on children's resources anyway.

    4. Despite all this, immigration is a dangerous game because it could lead to (especially by 2050) significant outbreeding or displacement of the native population, who won't be too happy about that.

    5. Even if you don't care at all about ethnicity, by 2050, migrants will become Westernized, and will have low birth rates, again, (a giant ageing population) and that won't help you at all, unless you bring in EVEN MORE.
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    LibertyMan you seem to be worried about white people 'dying out', nd seem to think that women should be breaking machines. I disagree with both propositions, in fact I belive that we should aim to get rid of ethnicity as much as possible as not only are there tremendous health benifits to doing so but it just shouldn't be something anyone cares about.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    LibertyMan you seem to be worried about white people 'dying out',
    Man! How has this become a crime. You are a leader of a country, of a nation of people, and you have zero concern with them, their culture, their "soul" dying out.

    Do you really find it unreasonable that people don't expect their entire population to be replaced with foreigners?

    Even if you have a solid philosophical principle that tells you this is okay, from a practical political point of view, do you even care to admit what kind of TENSION there will be in this country if there is a significant mixture of ethnicities?

    Even Belgium, a 1st world country at the peak of development, has a massive problem with being divided by two nationalities. And these are very similar nationalities. What about English people with Asians?

    Even Scotland wants to separate, and you are telling me multiculturalism has been achieved and tolerance will last until 2050?

    The current model for immigration being the backbone of this country's ability to support itself is short term, and could have catastrophic consequences in the future, especially if the decay of fertility is neglected.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    LibertyMan you seem to be worried about white people 'dying out', nd seem to think that women should be breaking machines. I disagree with both propositions, in fact I belive that we should aim to get rid of ethnicity as much as possible as not only are there tremendous health benifits to doing so but it just shouldn't be something anyone cares about.
    What are these health benefits? Genetic diversity already exists given that we are a country of millions rather than a small inbreeding town.

    The best way to get rid of ethnicity is to push for genetic engineering and allow people to purchase improvements and probably produce 'designer babies' who are white even with non-white parents.
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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    So are you saying you just don't know the answer to the most important question in this country's future existence?
    Let's not be ridiculous here – the UK will not cease to exist because of a low fertility rate amongst certain ethnicities.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    What are these health benefits? Genetic diversity already exists given that we are a country of millions rather than a small inbreeding town.

    The best way to get rid of ethnicity is to push for genetic engineering and allow people to purchase improvements and probably produce 'designer babies' who are white even with non-white parents.
    Doubt he meant 'get rid of ethnicity' in the eugenics sense.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Let's not be ridiculous here – the UK will not cease to exist because of a low fertility rate amongst certain ethnicities.
    It's native population will. Quickly. And when you reach a point where 20 % + of the population isn't native, you will begin to have significant racial tensions. Why would you wish that for the UK?
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    Also, heritage, tradition, cultural preservation etc are meaningless buzzwords for people who really just mean 'I'm scared of people who aren't exactly like me'.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Also, heritage, tradition, cultural preservation etc are meaningless buzzwords for people who really just mean 'I'm scared of people who aren't exactly like me'.
    Tell that to Belgium, Scotland, South Africa, Israel, Spain....
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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    Tell that to Belgium, Scotland, South Africa, Israel, Spain....
    Sure. Patriotism is dumb no matter what country it takes place in.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Sure. Patriotism is dumb no matter what country it takes place in.
    We all agree. It would be ideal if people were loyal to their official government and legal system and morality rather than ethnic ties, but that is not the case. It is very difficult for different people to get along, even when the differences seem ridiculous. See England and Scotland.

    Unfortunatly, if this country becomes 50:50 White:Nonwhite , there will be utter chaos, more than a petty Scotland can create.

    It's also very debatable if the immigrants we bring in have the same infallible belief in multiculturalism as you, and if they won't be suspected to patriotism to their own ethnicity.
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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    We all agree. It would be ideal if people were loyal to their official government and legal system and morality rather than ethnic ties, but that is not the case. It is very difficult for different people to get along, even when the differences seem ridiculous. See England and Scotland.

    Unfortunatly, if this country becomes 50:50 White:Nonwhite , there will be utter chaos, more than a petty Scotland can create.

    It's also very debatable if the immigrants we bring in have the same infallible belief in multiculturalism as you, and if they won't be suspected to patriotism to their own ethnicity.
    You're being ridiculous. FWIW we don't all agree, it's patently obvious to me that in a perfect world there would only be a single government and the notion of a state wouldn't exist.
 
 
 
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