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Labour MP Jo Cox killed in shooting incident in West Yorkshire Watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It's beyond any reasonable doubt now. Yet no doubt some will still claim he wasn't far right.
    Yeah, it's funny how certain media outlets and people seem determined to focus on solely his mental illness and ignore his ideology, when the same media outlets and people would completely ignore the mental state of a radical Islamist shooter and focus solely on his ideology, why are some people so determined to absolve the far-right of any blame here?

    Yes, it's clear this guy wasn't mentally stable, but what is also clear by what he shouted prior to the attack, what he said his name was and the numerous links he supposedly has with the far-right (including a photo that appears to show him with BF members on their own website), that much like any Islamist shooter, he was influenced by an ideology. The Orlando shooter clearly wasn't mentally stable either, yet most solely focused on his ideology afterwards.

    http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...y--bylAyAGqI4Z
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    (Original post by Olie)
    Yeah, it's funny how certain media outlets and people seem determined to focus on solely his mental illness and ignore his ideology, when the same media outlets and people would completely ignore the mental state of a radical Islamist shooter and focus solely on his ideology, why are some people so determined to absolve the far-right of any blame here?

    Yes, it's clear this guy wasn't mentally stable, but what is also clear by what he shouted prior to the attack, what he said his name was and the numerous links he supposedly has with the far-right (including a photo that appears to show him with BF members on their own website), that much like any Islamist shooter, he was influenced by an ideology. The Orlando shooter clearly wasn't mentally stable either, yet most solely focused on his ideology afterwards.

    http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...y--bylAyAGqI4Z
    Olie, you deserve a sticker *applauds*
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    You're concentrating on the wrong link. What I asked for evidence of was that Britain First as a group had encouraged violence, not that he was a Britain First supporter (as to that, as I've repeated many, many times now, I entirely do not care).

    I wasn't even claiming that they hadn't encouraged violence, just arguing that putting up a big picture of a scary looking white working class man doesn't in itself establish that link, as FoS appeared to think it did.
    They obviously haven't explicitly encouraged violence, but if you read their rhetoric, particularly the threats they made towards Sadiq Khan very recently, then it's clear they do have a very militant rhetoric and it's not that difficult to see how violence could arise from this sort of stuff, especially with mentally unstable characters like Mair.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0e71ef36d9617

    And no, Jo Cox obviously wasn't Muslim, but she had been receiving a lot of hate mail prior to the attack for championing immigration, multiculturalism and seemed to have good relations with the local Muslim community, even her assistant was Muslim.
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    (Original post by Olie)
    Yeah, it's funny how certain media outlets and people seem determined to focus on solely his mental illness and ignore his ideology, when the same media outlets and people would completely ignore the mental state of a radical Islamist shooter and focus solely on his ideology, why are some people so determined to absolve the far-right of any blame here?

    Yes, it's clear this guy wasn't mentally stable, but what is also clear by what he shouted prior to the attack, what he said his name was and the numerous links he supposedly has with the far-right (including a photo that appears to show him with BF members on their own website), that much like any Islamist shooter, he was influenced by an ideology. The Orlando shooter clearly wasn't mentally stable either, yet most solely focused on his ideology afterwards.

    http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...y--bylAyAGqI4Z
    Well said.

    No doubt the next deflection tactic will be to claim that Britain First are not actually right wing...
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    (Original post by KINGYusuf)
    Thomas Mair is apart of Britain First
    Thomas Mair shouted "Britain First" according to 3 witnesses
    Thomas Mair when asked for his name in court said "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain"

    This was a TERRORIST attack

    Those who disagree are obviously right-wing, ignorant cretins
    Literally not terrorism by definition

    It isn't an attack on the public

    It was a political assassination
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    Hey guys! Remember Lee Rigby? he was butchered in the street by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale both got charged with murder but not terrorism. I don't see you campaigning to get them labeled as terrorists so please give it a rest. Is it because that case doesn't suit your agenda?
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    (Original post by Olie)
    They obviously haven't explicitly encouraged violence, but if you read their rhetoric, particularly the threats they made towards Sadiq Khan very recently, then it's clear they do have a very militant rhetoric and it's not that difficult to see how violence could arise from this sort of stuff, especially with mentally unstable characters like Mair.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0e71ef36d9617

    And no, Jo Cox obviously wasn't Muslim, but she had been receiving a lot of hate mail prior to the attack for championing immigration, multiculturalism and seemed to have good relations with the local Muslim community, even her assistant was Muslim.
    Yeah i saw her assistant was a muslim
    She clearly was a proper human being who didn't judge by your religion or skin colour
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    (Original post by Sun_Bear)
    Hey guys! Remember Lee Rigby? he was butchered in the street by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale both got charged with murder but not terrorism. I don't see you campaigning to get them labeled as terrorists so please give it a rest. Is it because that case doesn't suit your agenda?
    What specifically should people be giving a rest? The discussion of his motives? His potential links to the far right?

    The murderers of Lee Rigby were charged with a range of offences that mean they will likely never be released from prison. Can you cite specific offences from the various terrorism legislation that they should have been charged with instead?

    As far as I and likely the vast majority of the U.K. Population are concerned, they were terrorists.
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    Personally I don't much like the current rush to call all "politically" or "ideologically" motivated violence/killings as "terrorism"

    I prefer the older definitions - e.g:



    The IRA/CIRA were/are terrorists. ISIS are terrorists.

    The Orlando shooter was not (unless he had been directed/trained by ISIL/ISIS - aligning yourself with a terrorist body doesn't make you a terrorist in my book). And neither is Tommy Mair.
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    (Original post by Quantex)
    What specifically should people be giving a rest? The discussion of his motives? His potential links to the far right?

    The murderers of Lee Rigby were charged with a range of offences that mean they will likely never be released from prison. Can you cite specific offences from the various terrorism legislation that they should have been charged with instead?

    As far as I and likely the vast majority of the U.K. Population are concerned, they were terrorists.
    The Hypocriticalness. Lee Rigby's murderers where not charged with terrorism yet i don't seem to see the same level of out rage from those saying Thomas Mair is a terrorist. I'm not saying Thomas Mair isn't a terrorist, i'm pointing out peoples disparities to suit their agenda.

    You may say that i'm saying this to suit my own agenda. I don't care about labelling people things. For me labelling somebody a terrorist is meaningless and doesn't solve anything. I much rather focus on policies to prevent similar scenarios from happening again.
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    The contrast between the media descriptions of the Orlando shooter and the media descriptions of Thomas Mair tells you everything you need to know about how the word "terrorist" is a politically-motivated, anti-Muslim term.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    The Orlando shooter was not (unless he had been directed/trained by ISIL/ISIS - aligning yourself with a terrorist body doesn't make you a terrorist in my book). And neither is Tommy Mair.
    I think this is probably the most useful definition of 'terrorism', in that it actually gives some distinct meaning to the word, and I agree with your application of it.

    It is still ultimately open to everyone to argue about how they 'think' it should be defined, because there's no ultimate answer to that. For that reason the preoccupation over the use of the word 'terrorism' is a complete waste of time. We should really be arguing about ideas rather than words.

    The same applies to this bafflingly simplistic 'right wing/left wing' argument that seems to have started up in this thread.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I think this is probably the most useful definition of 'terrorism', in that it actually gives some distinct meaning to the word, and I agree with your application of it.

    It is still ultimately open to everyone to argue about how they 'think' it should be defined, because there's no ultimate answer to that. For that reason the preoccupation over the use of the word 'terrorism' is a complete waste of time. We should really be arguing about ideas rather than words.

    The same applies to this bafflingly simplistic 'right wing/left wing' argument that seems to have started up in this thread.


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    I know the term is somewhat arbitrary and difficult to give an exact meaning. But all I ask for is consistency. However you define it. If you see the Orlando shooting as terrorism then so is this.

    Again, we can debate the definition of terrorism indefinitely. But whatever definition we choose, we must be consistent.

    Otherwise there seems to be an agenda when we describe attacks by certain groups as 'terrorism' yet don't describe very similar attacks by other groups as the same.
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    He assinated her full stop

    I don't see why people are arguing otherwise
    He clearly targeted her, waited for her and murdered her because of his political views...
    The guardian are saying they found material regarding Jo Cox in his home as well as right wing other stuff

    He is low of the low and all this mental illness stuff proves he knew what he was doing the day he killed her.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    Looks like you don't live in the real world. Well let me tell you there are people who were given EU passports in countries such as Sweden and have used it to come to the UK. The UK is like a magnet everyone wants to come here
    Just making things up as you are going along.

    Where is the evidence for this claim? ( You don't have any)
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    (Original post by Sun_Bear)
    Hey guys! Remember Lee Rigby? he was butchered in the street by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale both got charged with murder but not terrorism. I don't see you campaigning to get them labeled as terrorists so please give it a rest. Is it because that case doesn't suit your agenda?
    So they were not charged with terrorism....so they are not terrorists?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    So they were not charged with terrorism....so they are not terrorists?
    Neither has this guy yet...
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    (Original post by Sun_Bear)
    Neither has this guy yet...
    I know that.

    Anyway, back to the question, if Lee Rigby's murderers were not charged with terrorism then you are not terrorists?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    I know that.

    Anyway, back to the question, if Lee Rigby's murderers were not charged with terrorism then you are not terrorists?
    It seems to me like a very similar situation. It was an attack on a solider as well so could be seen as an act of war. Look, I'm not a criminal lawyer and don't have any access to evidence they used during the trial so it's best let the lawyers and judges decide on the technicality of these issues. Maybe they thought let it be when they found him guilty on enough crimes that they will never come out of prison.
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    (Original post by Sun_Bear)
    It seems to me like a very similar situation. It was an attack on a solider as well so could be seen as an act of war. Look, I'm not a criminal lawyer and don't have any access to evidence they used during the trial so it's best let the lawyers and judges decide on the technicality of these issues. Maybe they thought let it be when they found him guilty on enough crimes that they will never come out of prison.
    They will come out of prison one day, even though they should have been hanged in the first place, thanks Labour party.
 
 
 
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