The Commons Bar Mk XIII - MHoC Chat Thread

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Four things that unis think matter more than league tables 08-12-2016
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And in any sane society they get sent to a shrink

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    Need to find a ****ing good one!
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    There is something seriously wrong here...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37383914
    I'm supportive of non-binary people but the child's parents need to stop pandering to this for a while at least. This is someone very young who hasn't hit puberty yet and it could well be just something they grow out of/move on from as they get older and explore their identity.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    I'm supportive of non-binary people but the child's parents need to stop pandering to this for a while at least. This is someone very young who hasn't hit puberty yet and it could well be just something they grow out of/move on from as they get older and explore their identity.
    Apart from the bit about supporting non-binary people () I definitely agree with you... probably got SJWs for parents as well!
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    There is something seriously wrong here...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37383914
    It's what happens when this sort of thing is encouraged so much and being anything close to normal is demonised.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    I'm supportive of non-binary people but the child's parents need to stop pandering to this for a while at least. This is someone very young who hasn't hit puberty yet and it could well be just something they grow out of/move on from as they get older and explore their identity.
    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Apart from the bit about supporting non-binary people () I definitely agree with you... probably got SJWs for parents as well!
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    It's what happens when this sort of thing is encouraged so much and being anything close to normal is demonised.
    It's something I'm really on the fence about because I know for a fact (and personal experience) that children can accurately identify themselves as being transgender - but there are also a lot of cases of overly 'liberal' parents pushing something that isn't there.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It's something I'm really on the fence about because I know for a fact (and personal experience) that children can accurately identify themselves as being transgender - but there are also a lot of cases of overly 'liberal' parents pushing something that isn't there.
    Yes it's a fact of course.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Yes it's a fact of course.
    I knew for certain something wasn't right from the time I started school. Most trans people are the same. It isn't generally something that suddenly comes on during puberty. In all likelihood people are transgender before they're even born (the main theory, with further study currently being done, is that it's caused by abnormal hormone levels in the womb) and if that's confirmed then obviously children can be transgender and will likely start realising as soon as they become aware of the concept of gender. It's just that people won't accept it because it's still seen as some sexual depravity rather than a legitimate medical condition.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It's something I'm really on the fence about because I know for a fact (and personal experience) that children can accurately identify themselves as being transgender - but there are also a lot of cases of overly 'liberal' parents pushing something that isn't there.
    Unlike a lot of people with a position like me on this issue I have no problem with transgender people but I believe there is a fine line to tread on this issue and especially when it ends up in the news like this i think a lot of the time it is borderline abuse especially when children so young are being used as it can have a big impact on the child and a lot of the time they grow out of it.

    People who say it is a scale ok but there are still 2 sides to it male and female so unless you fall right in the middle then that's what you are, I would possibly accept androgynous in there at a push but everyone other than that are just trying to justify their own personal preferences to themselves which is unnecessary and an excuse to tell people they are some kind of ist for having thoughts about how they act.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    I knew for certain something wasn't right from the time I started school. Most trans people are the same. It isn't generally something that suddenly comes on during puberty. In all likelihood people are transgender before they're even born (the main theory, with further study currently being done, is that it's caused by abnormal hormone levels in the womb) and if that's confirmed then obviously children can be transgender and will likely start realising as soon as they become aware of the concept of gender. It's just that people won't accept it because it's still seen as some sexual depravity rather than a legitimate medical condition.
    The problem with people these days is that its nothing to do with hormones (for those people, i have no issue) but rather that perfectly biological boys are being taught that they can wear dresses if they want ect.. all that does is make them stand out (and not in an advantagous way) and probably creates psychological problems.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Unlike a lot of people with a position like me on this issue I have no problem with transgender people but I believe there is a fine line to tread on this issue and especially when it ends up in the news like this i think a lot of the time it is borderline abuse especially when children so young are being used as it can have a big impact on the child and a lot of the time they grow out of it.

    People who say it is a scale ok but there are still 2 sides to it male and female so unless you fall right in the middle then that's what you are, I would possibly accept androgynous in there at a push but everyone other than that are just trying to justify their own personal preferences to themselves which is unnecessary and an excuse to tell people they are some kind of ist for having thoughts about how they act.
    I think it really does depend to be honest. It's obviously completely wrong to push it on children and if I have some of my own one day, I likely wouldn't even introduce them to the concept or mention my past during their formative years. But if the kid expresses it themselves it does likely indicate some issue that it's worth acting on whether they turn out to be transgender or not. I know the point is raised about bullying, but in my experience and that of most others I've spoken to it happens anyway - you can imagine what it's likely being a 'boy' in school who has no interest whatsoever in masculine activities, prefers to socialise with girls and in my case at least possesses the athletic talents of your average turnip. Frankly I was never gonna get on well anyway and I do believe I would have been happier if I'd been able to transition very, very young - but the difficulty is identifying whether the child is really trans or not.

    Yeah, I think for most it's just not at all identifying with our society's concepts of what it means to be male or female which is fair enough really. If anything it's probably more common for children to have these feelings since their social circles tend to be a lot more gender-segregated that the ones they might choose to associate with in adulthood.

    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The problem with people these days is that its nothing to do with hormones (for those people, i have no issue) but rather that perfectly biological boys are being taught that they can wear dresses if they want ect.. all that does is make them stand out (and not in an advantagous way) and probably creates psychological problems.
    I honestly think the people who raise kids like that tend to be the radical feminist types rather than transgender or sympathetic with trans people though. We obviously acknowledge gender exists and personally I wouldn't put my son in a dress, certainly not if he didn't specifically request it (and most boys left to their own devices obviously won't). But there are some out there - often actually the ones who hate trans people the most! - who still seem to be pushing the absolutely batshit idea that gender is just a social construct and there's no inherent difference between men and women bar their reproductive systems, despite tomes upon tomes of scientific evidence to the contrary. I have as little time for them as for the idiots who insist on raising their kids with homophobia or other such crap justified by religion - it's exactly the same thing except for the source of their ludicrous beliefs.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The problem with people these days is that its nothing to do with hormones (for those people, i have no issue) but rather that perfectly biological boys are being taught that they can wear dresses if they want ect.. all that does is make them stand out (and not in an advantagous way) and probably creates psychological problems.
    I cross dress sometimes but you don't see me going around drawing attention to it...



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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I cross dress sometimes but you don't see me going around drawing attention to it...

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    As an adult and in the right environment that's your choice (my general opposition to adult transgenderism is NHS related rather than because i want to ban it) but i suspect you wer'nt going around at the age of 14 to your friends house in that.
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    Would anyone be interested in seconding an amendment for a points system to create parties which helps people who have been active here and groups who have created legislation while wishing to become a party? It would also make it slightly harder for inactive people to join the MHoC and create a party.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Would anyone be interested in seconding an amendment for a points system to create parties which helps people who have been active here and groups who have created legislation while wishing to become a party? It would also make it slightly harder for inactive people to join the MHoC and create a party.
    I might second, depending on how you word it.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    As an adult and in the right environment that's your choice (my general opposition to adult transgenderism is NHS related rather than because i want to ban it) but i suspect you wer'nt going around at the age of 14 to your friends house in that.
    I was only pointing out that wearing a dress sometimes is not the same as being transgender. If a young boy wants to wear a skirt i see no issue in that, the scots have been doing it for years yet nobody bats an eyelid.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I cross dress sometimes but you don't see me going around drawing attention to it...



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    Okkkkkkkkkkk...
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Would anyone be interested in seconding an amendment for a points system to create parties which helps people who have been active here and groups who have created legislation while wishing to become a party? It would also make it slightly harder for inactive people to join the MHoC and create a party.
    Please could you PM the amendment? From what you have said though, I am willing to second.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Would anyone be interested in seconding an amendment for a points system to create parties which helps people who have been active here and groups who have created legislation while wishing to become a party? It would also make it slightly harder for inactive people to join the MHoC and create a party.
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    I might second, depending on how you word it.
    I would not wish to support a points based system for the creation of parties. Speaking as someone who tried unsuccessfully to start one a few parliaments ago when sitting as an independent. The only change I would support is that for nation non whole UK based parties such as a TSR Plaid Cymru or TSR SNP, a lower threshold for number of members to form one.
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    Joined the LGBT+, labour, rock, debating and politics societies, and got a girl's number. I think I'm doing this uni thing right so far.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Joined the LGBT+, labour, rock, debating and politics societies, and got a girl's number. I think I'm doing this uni thing right so far.
    Nice
 
 
 
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