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    (Original post by Endless Blue)
    PRSOM. Do you think Arsenal or Utd fans will have a bigger breakdown over summer transfers?


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    Arsenal. Utd have a top manager wenger will say he's going to spend for most the summer then come out in august saying there's no value followed by a panic buy on deadline day and arsenal fans round the world will talk about how we're just a few players away from the title and wait until the next summer to be disappointed again.
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    (Original post by Kruz)
    I knew he was good but I didn't know he could dictate a match like this.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Ive given up trying to second guess Eredivisie players tbh, never knew Daley could do what he does against Twente against the world champions!

    Suspect Van Gaal might take him to Utd, he likes him alot.
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    I think Wenger is just waiting for the perfect non-finished article player. Unfortunately, the waiting part is the frustrating part when we really need to be strengthening, because other teams are definitely adding to their squads. No way do I think a Ozil star signing is going to be the norm for us, I think our signings will again, be works in progress. The funds are there, board backing is actually there, it's Wenger's transfer policy which is not there. For a supposedly great European club to use Sanogo in the CL knockout stages against Bayern is criminal, it is just absolutely crazy. Sanogo would not even get into a lower half Premiership first team side in his current stage of development.
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    (Original post by Kruz)
    I knew he was good but I didn't know he could dictate a match like this.

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    Imo it was a fluke, tactics worked for him today. He had the game of his life.
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    (Original post by Kruz)
    Chill. it's only the first match.
    7-0 Bayern Barca was the start, this just confirms it.
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    fling 35 bags at barca for sanchez dpmoooooo
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    fling 35 bags at a hater
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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    7-0 Bayern Barca was the start, this just confirms it.
    Except they don't play tiki taka
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    (Original post by baconbutty)
    Except they don't play tiki taka
    Barca don't play tiki taka? That's a first...
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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    Barca don't play tiki taka? That's a first...
    No and they haven't since 10/11 except in the odd game
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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    Barca don't play tiki taka? That's a first...
    BaconButty is right.

    Tiki taka is not defensive possession. Tiki taka is the case of quick interplay and one touch passing with the ambition to score, quick triangles, high movement, high pressing they haven't been playing that for some time and you could see that in the spain match now. The midfield is too slow now with Xavi and Alonso both there. Alonso has still got it but doesn't seem to be the guy you'd have in a very dynamic midfield.

    Xavi is shot though, should be replaced by Thiago or Koke.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    BaconButty is right.

    Tiki taka is not defensive possession. Tiki taka is the case of quick interplay and one touch passing with the ambition to score, quick triangles, high movement, high pressing they haven't been playing that for some time and you could see that in the spain match now. The midfield is too slow now with Xavi and Alonso both there. Alonso has still got it but doesn't seem to be the guy you'd have in a very dynamic midfield.

    Xavi is shot though, should be replaced by Thiago or Koke.
    Barca have always played defensive possession (they were just way more effective at it from 08-10) and that was labelled as tiki taka, so that's what I'm going with.

    Xavi should've been replaced with Cesc at barca...
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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    Barca have always played defensive possession (they were just way more effective at it from 08-10) and that was labelled as tiki taka, so that's what I'm going with.

    Xavi should've been replaced with Cesc at barca...
    Na I disagree, in 08-11 Guardiola got them playing quick triangle passing football. They did defensive possession but not as much as they do now, main problem is that Xavi is shot so doesn't get into positions for that quick passing football they used to do. He just slows down play and passes sideways and backwards majority of the time.

    Spain today had a weird setup, they only had one willing runner which was Costa, he made those runs and he had no help whatsoever bar Silva, Ramos and Pique were getting done by long balls.

    Xavi should have been replaced by Thiago but they cocked up. Rakitic is there though and Rafinha Alcantara will most likely be in the first team next season.
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    He deffo isn't lying.

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    Love Arseblog.

    (Original post by Barcelona statement (since deleted))
    But despite glowing starts to each campaign, Cesc’s contributions to the cause gradually decreased as each season drew to a close. From being someone who joined in with the attack, supplying and scoring goals, the magic tended to fade later on in each season. He only scored one, six and one goals in the last 24 games of each season. For some reason, he was never as good in the second half of a season as in the first.
    (Original post by Arseblog)
    That has since been deleted – and rightly so – but that it was there in the first place is an appalling indictment of how they think and operate. And you know what? The very first thought I had after reading it was that somehow other all the other Barcelona players had more energy in the second half of seasons for some reason and Cesc didn’t. I wonder what that might have been. Maybe we could get Lance Armstrong PI to investigate. Could that also be part of why they’re happy to let him go?
    I know it's basically some anti-barca sentiment rather than an anti-doping call to arms, but it's so rare to see any mainstream football bloggers mention the spectre of PEDs in football. If we could all start shunning Guardiola for his nandrolone use and tell Ferdinand to **** off our screens because dodging drug tests is something you only do when you're cheating, the sport might get somewhere...
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    (Original post by little_tom)
    Sociedad's president was in London earlier to buy-out Vela's clause. We'll get just under 10M and Sociedad will be able to keep Vela. So we're not in for him anymore. This is going to be a very frustrating summer unless we're using this as leverage for Griezmann.
    Seems like Vela really doesn't want to go back to England though based on what he said recently, so I think it's more down to that & doubts about his ability to readapt than to not being interested in him as a player.

    (Original post by Pete_91)
    Barca have always played defensive possession (they were just way more effective at it from 08-10) and that was labelled as tiki taka, so that's what I'm going with.

    Xavi should've been replaced with Cesc at barca...
    No, the original "tiki-taka" has little to do with possession. Look at Spain at the Euros 2008, tiki taka but only 49% average possession. It's a minor aspect of it, one that's a natural result of the way it is played & a Cruijff influence but certainly not the main purpose and not a subsitute for actual defending (which is what defines defensive possession). If you look at Barça games from 08-9 and before that (since tiki taka had been played before Guardiola), you won't see as many games with extremely high possession stats. They did dominate possession but not as much and that was not "defensive" but a Cruijff influence as I said. The switch came in 2010/11 when Barça needed to compensate for dodgy defending with Puyol/Marquez gone. Overall until then the average possession had gone up by like 10%. The same goes for Spain after the WC or even the Euros 2008, who started using Xabi Alonso in a double pivot to get more control (thus more possession, 60% at the Euros 2012 vs 49% 2008) but sacrificed attacking speed in the process. Nowadays neither are playing tiki taka. The term is just wrongly associated with possession-obsesssion because foreign media only really obsessed over it in 2011 & during the Euros (when Spain didn't even play tiki taka). Guardiola used the term "ziga-zaga" because of that.

    (Original post by jam278)
    Na I disagree, in 08-11 Guardiola got them playing quick triangle passing football. They did defensive possession but not as much as they do now, main problem is that Xavi is shot so doesn't get into positions for that quick passing football they used to do. He just slows down play and passes sideways and backwards majority of the time.
    Sideways and backways passing is not a problem, main issue is that Xavi can no longer provide the defensive contribution that is required of the CM in that system. The other problem was losing Marquez & Puyol without replacing them, which made more possession necessary.
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    (Original post by qua)
    No. The original term "tiki-taka", which was coined before Guardiola even set foot in Barça as a coach btw, has little to do with possession. It's a minor aspect of it, but one that is a natural result of the way it is played & certainly not a subsitute for actual defending (which is what defines defensive possession) or a main purpose. If you look at Barça games from 08-10, you'll rarely see extremely high possession stats. The switch to extreme possession came in 2010/11 when Barça needed to find a way to compensate for dodgy defending with Puyol/Marquez gone, that's when the average possession went up by like 10%. The same goes for Spain after the World Cup, who started using Xabi Alonso in a double pivot to get more control(thus more possession) but sacrificed attacking speed in the process. Nowadays neither of them are playing tiki taka. The term is just wrongly used & associated with possession-obsesssion because foreign media only really obsessed over it in 2011 & during the Euros (when Spain didn't even play tiki taka). Guardiola used the term "ziga-zaga" because of that.


    Sideways and backways passing is not a problem, main issue is that Xavi can no longer provide the defensive contribution that is required of the CM in that system. The other problem was losing Marquez & Puyol without replacing them, which made more possession necessary.
    I think that's an exaggeration
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    (Original post by qua)
    Seems like Vela really doesn't want to go back to England though based on what he said recently, so I think it's more down to that & doubts about his ability to readapt than to not being interested in him as a player.



    No, the original "tiki-taka" has little to do with possession. Look at Spain at the Euros 2008, tiki taka but only 49% average possession. It's a minor aspect of it, one that's a natural result of the way it is played & a Cruijff influence but certainly not the main purpose and not a subsitute for actual defending (which is what defines defensive possession). If you look at Barça games from 08-9 and before that (since tiki taka had been played before Guardiola), you won't see as many games with extremely high possession stats. They did dominate possession but not as much and that was not "defensive" but a Cruijff influence as I said. The switch came in 2010/11 when Barça needed to compensate for dodgy defending with Puyol/Marquez gone. Overall until then the average possession had gone up by like 10%. The same goes for Spain after the WC or even the Euros 2008, who started using Xabi Alonso in a double pivot to get more control (thus more possession, 60% at the Euros 2012 vs 49% 2008) but sacrificed attacking speed in the process. Nowadays neither are playing tiki taka. The term is just wrongly associated with possession-obsesssion because foreign media only really obsessed over it in 2011 & during the Euros (when Spain didn't even play tiki taka). Guardiola used the term "ziga-zaga" because of that.


    Sideways and backways passing is not a problem, main issue is that Xavi can no longer provide the defensive contribution that is required of the CM in that system. The other problem was losing Marquez & Puyol without replacing them, which made more possession necessary.
    They still played defensive possession even if they didn't have such extremely high possession stats in the early years of their dominance, they were just far better at getting the ball up top and had a far better pressing game. As I said I'm going by what is labelled as tiki-taka not what it actually is in a definitional sense.

    Regardless either by barca no longer playing the system or by it becoming inferior to other systems, tiki-taka as a system is dead (for spain and barca).
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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    They still played defensive possession even if they didn't have such extremely high possession stats in the early years of their dominance, they were just far better at getting the ball up top and had a far better pressing game. As I said I'm going by what is labelled as tiki-taka not what it actually is in a definitional sense.

    Regardless either by barca no longer playing the system or by it becoming inferior to other systems, tiki-taka as a system is dead (for spain and barca).
    Well ofc possession is always a way to avoid defending as Cruijff said so in a way all possession is "defensive possession" (redundant term perhaps). This recent extreme possession is new though. "Tiki taka" just refers to the passing game style (hence the word) and no team has really played like that for 2-3 years, but I get you're talking about the way it's used/labelled in the media, so I see what you mean.

    I agree "tiki taka" is dead (as in no longer played) and whatever Barça/Spain are playing atm it is dead too (as in useless). Doubt Spain will not use a quick passing-based system in the future though. They'll change their personnel to younger players, which will automatically accelerate the play & improve the pressing. With those changes & the right tactics the system can still be successful, after all quick passing hasn't suddenly become ineffective, but we'll see.

    Looks like they're pretty much ****ed for this WC though.

    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    I think that's an exaggeration
    It's merely a rough estimation for the period of time from Rijkaard to Guardiola's last 2 seasons, not sure if it's that exaggerated. But to be precise for Guardiola's spell it was 7% between 08/9 and 10/11. Could have worded that differently. ~11% for Spain between Euros 2008 and '12.
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    7.6 per cent to be exact.
 
 
 
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