The Commons Bar Mk VIII - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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Kittiara
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#7961
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#7961
(Original post by Green_Pink)
Oh I do completely agree, we do need a total overhaul in our political culture. I'm an idealist too, I believe it can happen. And I really, really hope that we both see the day where quotas and shortlists are unnecessary, because politics is truly diverse and acceptable - I do see it only as a stopgap measure. But I believe that to start making the change we need and challenging our broken and corrupt political culture, the first step, not the last, has to be to increase diversity - because there is no reason for the old boy's clubs in Westminster to really want change no matter the colour of their ties. If we have a fairer electoral system and a more diverse range of candidates, maybe then we can build the pressure from the inside to change our politics into something more representative, radical and brave.
You're right. As things are, there is little reason for those currently in Westminster to change what they have, which seems to be quite a cosy set up for them. I do think that the current disenchantment with politicians may be helpful. There is very much a feeling - from those on the left of the spectrum all the way to the right - that things need to change, that different voices need to be heard, that we should have politicians who speak their minds and show real values.

Unfortunately, UKIP is the one benefiting the most from that desire for change, and so far that's led to an ex-Tory MP who was already part of the establishment, but I hope that the call for alternatives will open the door to greater diversity.
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Kittiara
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#7962
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#7962
(Original post by Rakas21)
I think the issue is less that you need all women short lists to get into parliament but more that once in politics there is a certain type who gets to the top, and it's not especially feminine. As much as i dislike her politically Harriet Harman will have been deputy leader of Labour for about 8 years in 2015, but she's not especially feminine. Thatcher of course is remembered primarily for what are traditionally masculine traits (ruthlessness, strength, drive) and equally as much as i think she's a bit nutty (though she surprised me with EAW support), May is perceived as being a highly competent Home Secretary but again she's viewed somewhat as a Thatcher type, she's tough and as Gove and Sajid David know, she's happy to rip her colleagues a new one.

So effectively i think all women short lists miss the point. Firstly with local selection the problem is that party members, some of whom select candidates are overwhelmingly male. Forcing women into parliament does not change this. Then secondly as we see in parliament right now there are actually plenty of women.. but none of those who look and act in a feminine way are viewed as credible candidates for the PM, Chancellorship or foreign Office. The only woman post 2016 with a serious chance at the leadership is May.

So to stop rambling i think the real problem is that women only get to the top in politics by adjusting to the fact that its a mans world. That needs action at a grass roots level to both select more women candidates of their own merit because there are more engaged women and then you need to somehow change attitudes surrounding what you want in a leader otherwise you'll just end up with Labour. Lots of feminine women, but none looking like they'll reach the top.
Good post, Rakas. Some interesting insights in there, and I can't help but agree with you.
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Green_Pink
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#7963
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#7963
(Original post by Kittiara)
You're right. As things are, there is little reason for those currently in Westminster to change what they have, which seems to be quite a cosy set up for them. I do think that the current disenchantment with politicians may be helpful. There is very much a feeling - from those on the left of the spectrum all the way to the right - that things need to change, that different voices need to be heard, that we should have politicians who speak their minds and show real values.

Unfortunately, UKIP is the one benefiting the most from that desire for change, and so far that's led to an ex-Tory MP who was already part of the establishment, but I hope that the call for alternatives will open the door to greater diversity.
Well, we have seen the Greens go from ~1% of the vote to somewhere between 4 and 8 depending on which poll you look at too, obviously a smaller scale and not so much media behind it but I'm willing to bet most of those people switching to the Greens are expressing those feelings too. There's a very real possibility that the party who wins next year will barely exceed 30% of the popular vote - if that's not a reason to move on from First Past the Post I don't know what is.
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Kittiara
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#7964
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#7964
(Original post by Green_Pink)
Well, we have seen the Greens go from ~1% of the vote to somewhere between 4 and 8 depending on which poll you look at too, obviously a smaller scale and not so much media behind it but I'm willing to bet most of those people switching to the Greens are expressing those feelings too. There's a very real possibility that the party who wins next year will barely exceed 30% of the popular vote - if that's not a reason to move on from First Past the Post I don't know what is.
Yep, that was a sly move, offering a referendum on our voting system and then leaving out PR as an option. :mad: I do hope the Greens and other small parties will gain momentum. It doesn't help that the media do indeed tend to ignore different voices. That doesn't serve the public.
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Green_Pink
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#7965
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#7965
(Original post by Kittiara)
Yep, that was a sly move, offering a referendum on our voting system and then leaving out PR as an option. :mad: I do hope the Greens and other small parties will gain momentum. It doesn't help that the media do indeed tend to ignore different voices. That doesn't serve the public.
Yeah, that was pretty infuriating - a so-called choice between out current farce of a system, or what was in Clegg's own words "A piddling little compromise noone want's". Yay for democracy! And the media doesn't serve the public - when so much of it is owned and controlled by a select group of billionaires, it amazes me anyone thinks it could.
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Kittiara
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#7966
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#7966
(Original post by Green_Pink)
Yeah, that was pretty infuriating - a so-called choice between out current farce of a system, or what was in Clegg's own words "A piddling little compromise noone want's". Yay for democracy! And the media doesn't serve the public - when so much of it is owned and controlled by a select group of billionaires, it amazes me anyone thinks it could.
Ugh, don't I know it. I've published pieces, including political commentary, but if you want your work out there, you have a choice. You can either conform to the narrative that the papers want to present to their readers, or you can publish, unpaid, on a site where maybe a handful of people will ever stumble across your work. I've chosen the second option several times, but it's frustrating. Might as well talk to a brick wall. And when you do happen to have a piece that you want to write that fits into the narrative, and you step over the line by even a tiny bit (for example by adding inconvenient facts and figures), it gets edited to death without consultation.
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Aph
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#7967
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#7967
(Original post by Fernand126)
I'm glad I'm not the only one worried about Aph and who truly believes he is yet to take a look into the outside world.
(He'll probably say I'm wrong and I only believe such things because I've been taught so)
I have seen the outside world and I know it is an awful place, I just want to change it. Although I do honestly belive that humans aren't the best speicies on earth.
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Green_Pink
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#7968
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#7968
(Original post by Kittiara)
Ugh, don't I know it. I've published pieces, including political commentary, but if you want your work out there, you have a choice. You can either conform to the narrative that the papers want to present to their readers, or you can publish, unpaid, on a site where maybe a handful of people will ever stumble across your work. I've chosen the second option several times, but it's frustrating. Might as well talk to a brick wall. And when you do happen to have a piece that you want to write that fits into the narrative, and you step over the line by even a tiny bit (for example by adding inconvenient facts and figures), it gets edited to death without consultation.
Wow, didn't know it was that bad! I guess that's why some people are resorting to just making their own sites/blogs but presumably that just means it's even harder to be noticed. So much for a free press!
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Fernand126
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#7969
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#7969
(Original post by Aph)
I have seen the outside world and I know it is an awful place, I just want to change it. Although I do honestly belive that humans aren't the best speicies on earth.
No intent to offend you; I'm sure you've seen it.
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Aph
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#7970
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#7970
(Original post by Fernand126)
No intent to offend you; I'm sure you've seen it.
None taken. I just belive you shouldn't give up, you should make the change you want to soo

Posted from TSR Mobile
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jenkinsear
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#7971
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#7971
(Original post by Green_Pink)
Your first guess was entirely correct, Tower Hamlets with Rushanara Ali as my MP (Bethnal Green and Bow constituency).
In that case, you have my sympathies. The impression I get from friends who have moved there post-uni is that unless you're Bangladeshi you're not part of the "community" and the entire electoral and political system has no interest in you. Not a model of democracy, at least not first world.
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Green_Pink
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#7972
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#7972
(Original post by jenkinsear)
In that case, you have my sympathies. The impression I get from friends who have moved there post-uni is that unless you're Bangladeshi you're not part of the "community" and the entire electoral and political system has no interest in you. Not a model of democracy, at least not first world.
Well I'm in a different situation - I've lived here most of my life and that's not really been my experience. I've always had friends here, white, black and Bangladeshi. Some of the schools are too monocultural but others have a good mix and it works well. I've got a great local pub, local shops. I'd say the problem isn't that the community is segregated or anti-white - more that some people are distrustful of outsiders, especially as so many come here with misconceptions thanks to the utter nonsense portrayal of us the media seem to love. And in terms of the politics, I actually feel more engaged with it locally than I do with the national-level parties.
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RayApparently
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#7973
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#7973
The only way to save Miliband?
http://kmflett.wordpress.com/2014/11...r-ed-miliband/
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Aph
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#7974
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#7974
(Original post by RayApparently)
The only way to save Miliband?
http://kmflett.wordpress.com/2014/11...r-ed-miliband/
:lol:
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jenkinsear
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#7975
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#7975
(Original post by Green_Pink)
I'd say the problem isn't that the community is segregated or anti-white - more that some people are distrustful of outsiders,
Isn't that in itself a form of segregation and prejudice? For the record I didn't say it was simply anti-white. I would suggest it's anti everyone who isn't Muslim from some sections of the community. Whilst visiting I've had 4 separate occasions where I've been abused, most of it alleging I'm a "slut" for dressing fairly normally or telling me I'm a "mongrel" (I'm mixed race). Whiteness isn't an issue there, it just seems like general xenophobia.

(Original post by Green_Pink)
especially as so many come here with misconceptions thanks to the utter nonsense portrayal of us the media seem to love.
Is it nonsense though? I'm going to be bluntly honest, I'm pretty scared of the place. That isn't because the media told me to be, it's because of my experiences there. My friends living there do not plan to be living there long term (except the ones in Canary Wharf, which is basically an enclave).

(Original post by Green_Pink)
And in terms of the politics, I actually feel more engaged with it locally than I do with the national-level parties.
Isn't the local choice Luftar's band of criminals/thugs or a very complacent and disorganised labour party? No viable alternatives exist aside from a handful of tory councillors in the wealthier areas.
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Rakas21
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#7976
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#7976
Latest ICM has a 1% Labour lead (Ashcroft keeps the Tories ahead).

Need i remind you all that from Q4 average to election day, the government reduced the Tory lead by 7% running upto the last election.

For this reason (as you'll see in my sig), i'm increasingly confident of a Tory minority on election day.
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RayApparently
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#7977
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#7977
(Original post by Rakas21)
I agree with all that (slightly suprised you sound more social democrat than socialist).
*shrug* TSR has its Socialist Party.
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Rakas21
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#7978
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#7978
(Original post by RayApparently)
*shrug* TSR has its Socialist Party.
Yes but Labour and the Greens are infested with them.
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Aph
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#7979
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#7979
I'd anybody watching channel 4 right now?
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Rakas21
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#7980
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#7980
(Original post by Aph)
I'd anybody watching channel 4 right now?
Going to watch that after MIC.
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