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    (Original post by raffethefirst)
    Do you want to talk about this?
    Not at all. We have discussed this at length in the past and you know fully well how I feel about it.

    Although I would like to ask you two questions:

    How does your theory cope with the fact that it has been suggested that there may actually be a 14th zodiac sign, and that, since their creation, the gravitational force of the moon has has altered the tilt of the Earth and has altered the astrological system?
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    (Original post by raffethefirst)

    I think the definition of troll got distorted with time. Those kids...
    In my days, torll use to mean a man who wants to frustrate people on forums.

    babygirl110's -> if is not obvious what I am doing here (?!!?!?!) - I have a theory, I made a book, and I am asking for help and guidance.
    Is a big effort that I am taking, trying to answer something what psychologists should seek.
    I am working really hard and one of my smallest worries is how do you feel and then to try to frustrate you.
    Yes and you are that individual who is trying to get people worked up and therefore a troll.

    I tried to click on the links to your needs order theory and they wouldn't work. There are other various links I have tried to click that wouldn't work. I still don't understand what you are on about with this theory. I don't think you've put it across well.
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    Ohh, that is an easy one.

    How does your theory cope with the fact that it has been suggested that there may actually be a 14th zodiac sign
    My theory says that zodiacal signs are folklore and myth and the signs are an observation made by common people who might be very wrong - but still the observation - the pattern remains - the fact that people with similar initial moment have similar personality.
    If you will read the book - I say somewhere that the initial groups will be recreated after scientists will look into this theory and they could be very different in number or characteristics - from the traditional signs.

    >> since their creation, the gravitational force of the moon has altered the tilt of the Earth and has altered the astrological system
    One of the assumptions I make is that zodiacal signs are not created by stars so all astrological system might be wrong.
    A discussion about how and what could create this mechanism you can find here.
    But please read this as purely supposition - I don’t claim to know what is creating the zodiacal signs - however, I do claim that I know how to prove it.
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    >> Yes and you are that individual who is trying to get people worked up.

    no I am not. but if you insist you will make me feel unconfortable and what do people do when they are atacked?

    And I fixed the links or here is the link to my book
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    I am not sure if I should be happy or not because nobody replies - anymore.
    Can I interpret this as a change in position?

    you ok GodspeedGehenna?

    Please let me know what are your sincere opinion about this theory both as scientist and person.

    Well I am more interested as scientist but please tell me also what you feel as person when reading my theory - it cant be that bad .

    Thanks.
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    Tell you what. Go through your theory with me one more time.

    Boil it down to a few sentences. I cant be bothered to read reams of text.
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    That’s fair enough.
    The theory says that
    - personality of a man is made from a specific order of needs - specific to each individual. (and of course genes and env influences)
    - this specific order of needs for each individual is set at an initial moment
    (when else? it cannot be set before the individual to exist or when he is 10 years old)

    As arguments:
    - disagreement exist in psychology over what creates personality - indicating that something is missing or is not completely understood.
    - popular observation of people with similar order of needs exists and the phenomenon is called zodiacal signs ( which is a completely undesirable subject in science by itself and makes things harder in this situation. )
    - an argument for the fact that zodiacal signs hold something true is that I discovered that zodiacal signs seems to evolve one from another - pattern which denotes the existence of a mechanism.
    - the cicle of earth around the sun might* provides the conditions necessarily for this mechanism to exist
    - when trying to build an artificial intelligence model, I reach the same conclusions.
    The only piece that we are missing when trying to make a robot alive is the will to act - everything else exists - robots have the possibility to analyze the environment, to navigate through it, to make pattern recognitions - everything a man does.
    The will to act is made of the sum of all the needs.
    The way to set the needs in a robot is via a set of configurations.
    Also there must be a priority order set for those needs to be feasible.
    This model fits again perfect into the theory - such settings seem to exist in humans - the zodiacal signs.

    - Then, using this theory everything else can be explained, which makes it a working model.

    - all studies on zodiacal signs are wrong

    - I know how to definitively prove this theory true if I had the data.


    Please refer to my arguments one at a time if you think some of them are wrong.
    I also have linked the argument to the specific chapters but please do ask me if something seems dubious.

    *edit
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    (Original post by raffethefirst)
    That’s fair enough.
    The theory says that
    - personality of a man is made from a specific order of needs - specific to each individual. (and of course genes and env influences)
    - this specific order of needs for each individual is set at an initial moment
    (when else? it cannot be set before the individual to exist or when he is 10 years old)

    As arguments:
    - disagreement exist in psychology over what creates personality - indicating that something is missing or is not completely understood.
    - popular observation of people with similar order of needs exists and the phenomenon is called zodiacal signs ( which is a completely undesirable subject in science by itself and makes things harder in this situation. )
    - an argument for the fact that zodiacal signs hold something true is that I discovered that zodiacal signs seems to evolve one from another - pattern which denotes the existence of a mechanism.
    - the cicle of earth around the sun provides the conditions necessarily for this mechanism to exist
    - when trying to build an artificial intelligence model, I reach the same conclusions.
    The only piece that we are missing when trying to make a robot alive is the will to act - everything else exists - robots have the possibility to analyze the environment, to navigate through it, to make pattern recognitions - everything a man does.
    The will to act is made of the sum of all the needs.
    The way to set the needs in a robot is via a set of configurations.
    Also there must be a priority order set for those needs to be feasible.
    This model fits again perfect into the theory - such settings seem to exist in humans - the zodiacal signs.

    - Then, using this theory everything else can be explained, which makes it a working model.

    - all studies on zodiacal signs are wrong

    - I know how to definitively prove this theory true if I had the data.


    Please refer to my arguments one at a time if you think some of them are wrong.
    I also have linked the argument to the specific chapters but please do ask me if something seems dubious.
    I'm confused within the second sentence..

    So what exactly is 'order of needs'? How would you quantify this?
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    (Original post by raffethefirst)
    Why would it not be manipulatable?
    I will take the answers, put them in a database, make a software, find the right algorith and prove my theory.

    I have - without exageration - a theory that might solve half of philosophical and psychological controverses.
    I found a way to check if is true myself.
    But for that I need some data to check if is true.

    How odd is this situation?
    I made the theory - the whole observation, then nobody (psichologists) want to help me to prove it so I foud a way to prove it myself - and it can be proved - now you dont even want want to give me data to prove a psichological theory for you guys?

    So I am doing all the work to prove some huge stuff in psichology and then I am not allowed to prove it?


    How outrageous is this situation?

    I really need data man.
    I pay for it and you need to read my theory and decide that this time a concesion must be made in regulations to progress the science.
    There is no other way.
    I had the theory on internet but took I took it down as is aproaching the final stages.
    You can read something here or let me know if you are really interested to read it I will provide it.

    Thanks
    Alex
    So what is this theory you have.

    By the way, science is not about changing the data in order to make it fit your theory, rather changing your theory to fit the data.
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    >> So what exactly is 'order of needs'? How would you quantify this?
    We have the sum of all needs in no particular order.
    Then Maslow comes in and gives us a general order for them - an order of priorities.
    Then I came in and say that even more - the order of those priorities is very unique and proprietary and is exactly what makes our personality.
    We are different because we want the same things in a different and almost unique order.

    edit:
    What do you mean by
    >> How would you quantify this?
    please give me more details.
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    @ mathperson
    Sorry the thread is quite old - things changed a lot since the begining.
    you can find the theory here

    edit:
    but what concerns psychology can be sumarized in post nr 67
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    (Original post by raffethefirst)
    We have the sum of all needs in no particular order.
    Then Maslow comes in and gives us a general order for them - an order of priorities.
    Then I came in and say that even more - the order of those priorities is very unique and proprietary and is exactly what makes our personality.
    We are different because we want the same things in a different and almost unique order.

    edit:
    What do you mean by

    please give me more details.
    How would you quantify it? E.g. how can you use 'order of needs' to set up an experiment, or make a testable prediction of some sort? Have you tested your theory?
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    Interesting theory.
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    >> how can you use 'order of needs' to set up an experiment, or make a testable prediction of some sort?


    the 'order of needs' is the "initial" setting but personality can be altered - and is altered - pretty much during the course of life trough experience.
    I don’t know if the order itself is altered although I personally don’t think so.
    I am more inclined to say that humans do learn how to control their native instincts consciously because of life lessons – (where IQ becomes important)
    Or unconscious traumas may take precedence over the initial order of needs.

    So I am not sure how much at one moment, the personality of a man is made of the initial settings.

    Anyway the question seems a little too far in the future - I am at the moment when I am trying to prove that the order of needs do exists - I am not concerned yet about how the order of needs are - what is their shape.

    IF I had data - I could be able to prove that there is a connection between birth moment and personality
    which will prove that something is 100% true in the zodiacal signs
    which will prove that initial settings exist in humans
    which will prove that the order of needs are set in humans at an initial moment and this is what makes big part of our personality.



    you do understand that this could open a new chapter in psychology and other fields and I hope you won’t ask me to solve anything.


    I would suggest to go back at the list of arguments of this theory - this is what I am most interested in - to see if they are wrong.

    but of course if you think that speculating further on the shape of those order of needs is interesting I could give it a though.
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    Why would there be a direct connection between the precise moment a person was born and their future personality? And why would people born at the same time necessarily share 'similar' personalities?

    I don't really understand the basic premises of this theory.
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    (Original post by raffethefirst)
    >> how can you use 'order of needs' to set up an experiment, or make a testable prediction of some sort?


    the 'order of needs' is the "initial" setting but personality can be altered - and is altered - pretty much during the course of life trough experience.
    I don’t know if the order itself is altered although I personally don’t think so.
    I am more inclined to say that humans do learn how to control their native instincts consciously because of life lessons – (where IQ becomes important)
    Or unconscious traumas may take precedence over the initial order of needs.

    So I am not sure how much at one moment, the personality of a man is made of the initial settings.

    Anyway the question seems a little too far in the future - I am at the moment when I am trying to prove that the order of needs do exists - I am not concerned yet about how the order of needs are - what is their shape.

    IF I had data - I could be able to prove that there is a connection between birth moment and personality
    which will prove that something is 100% true in the zodiacal signs
    which will prove that initial settings exist in humans
    which will prove that the order of needs are set in humans at an initial moment and this is what makes big part of our personality.



    you do understand that this could open a new chapter in psychology and other fields and I hope you won’t ask me to solve anything.


    I would suggest to go back at the list of arguments of this theory - this is what I am most interested in - to see if they are wrong.

    but of course if you think that speculating further on the shape of those order of needs is interesting I could give it a though.
    Is English your first language?
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    >> Why would there be a direct connection between the precise moment a person was born and their future personality?
    I don’t think this question is necessarily to be answered for this theory to be given credit. This question can be researched and answer - by specialists later.


    Of course the question is important - why this mechanism?
    I am speculating about this in this chapter

    To summarize -

    there must be a mechanism to fluctuate the personalities of humans - but not too much – it must not be random – the fluctuations has to follow some rules.

    The cycle of the earth can offer the necessarily condition for this mechanism to exist.

    So again: why? It is not important at this stage – but it could be because is the only way or the easiest way.



    >> Is English your first language?
    Obviously not and I do apologize for that.
    Is this all you have to say about the arguments of this theory?
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    Of course this question needs to be answered, it represents the entire basis of your theory. I understand the concept of 'smoothing out the edges' of a theory later on but there must be some reason to even propose it in the first place.
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    >> Of course this question needs to be answered, it represents the entire basis of your theory. I understand the concept of 'smoothing out the edges' of a theory later on but there must be some reason to even propose it in the first place.
    I don’t agree with that.
    It is as saying that the Newton should have not made his theory because he don’t knows what is the internal mechanism that produces gravity.

    I can prove the theory experimentally without knowing the internal mechanism - which still makes the theory perfectly valid.

    Later it can be researched why nature has chosen to fluctuate the personality in relation with time and not something else.
    You are welcome to suggest a different mechanism and you won’t find many others and so you will understand that the suggested one is not completely out of reason.
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    (Original post by raffethefirst)

    Obviously not and I do apologize for that.
    Is this all you have to say about the arguments of this theory?
    To be honest, your theory means jack **** until you test it. Anyone can pull a theory out the air.
 
 
 
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