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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Read this

    http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5342

    Note this section

    Tighter means testing of grants (which saves the taxpayer money);

    Increasing interest rates for higher earning gratuates and reducing them for lower earning graduates (which makes the system more progressive, more complicated and lower cost to the taxpayer than that proposed by Browne);

    Making the maintenance loan system much more complex and more generous (which increases the taxpayer burden from Lord Browne);

    Increasing the funding for universities charging fees above £6,000 a year (costing the taxpayer more money compared to Lord Browne).

    -----------------------------

    I dont really care as I'm going to be a student and If it means I dont have to pay back all my loan then great. I'll earn £35,000 and just pay a little back.
    Yes... thats a different model. Just as the Govt are going with a different model to the one Browne proposed.

    Repayments of 30% of earnings over £10k or upfront fee payment costs the taxpayer less money.

    So what?
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    This thread is hurting my head can someone please explain to me with as minimum numbers as possible what the OP is on about ?
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Seriously

    How come the BBC are blatantly saying universities can get more funding then.

    Where do you think that money comes from?

    the taxpayer.
    So they are getting more funding...
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    Answer my questions

    How come the BBC are blatantly saying that universities are going to have increased funding ?

    Where is this funding coming from?

    The Taxpayer - nowhere else.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11483638 <<< Blatantly says " some universities will be able to increase funding ". Its actually more than they are letting on. Universities are going to compete with each other in order to remain prestigious. Basically, if Aberystwyth puts up its fee's then Swansea follows suit in order to keep up with it and get the same amount of funding to increase the universities reputation. This will then drive the tuition fee costs right up. Then you'll have universities such as UWE trying to catch up so they'll increase fee's. It all has a knock on effect.
    -------------------------------

    The new system is only being put in place for 2 reasons

    1) so the government can cut the education budget and spend it elsewhere

    2) so the taxpayer forks out extra to cover increased university funding.

    Its a complete political cop out.
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    (Original post by mel0n)
    This thread is hurting my head can someone please explain to me with as minimum numbers as possible what the OP is on about ?
    Students can take out loans for fees and maintenance.

    Graduates pay back loans out of their earnings (proposed to be 9% of earnings over £21k)

    Loans are cancelled if not repaid 30 years after entering repayment after graduation.

    So if you don't earn enough you won't pay off the loan and its cancelled.

    Thats a bad thing,

    -------------------
    Thats all I can surmise from what they have said
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Answer my questions

    How come the BBC are blatantly saying that universities are going to have increased funding ?

    Where is this funding coming from?

    The Taxpayer - nowhere else.

    -------------------------------

    The new system is only being put in place for 2 reasons

    1) so the government can cut the education budget and spend it elsewhere

    2) so the taxpayer forks out extra to cover increased university funding.

    Its a complete political cop out.
    Because it is being increased...

    2) should be 'to increase future govt revenue.
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    It really won't, and using the present tense is a bit weird.


    Of course, we don’t have any proper statistics for how many people pay back their student loan at the moment, as they’ve only existed in the current form (ie as opposed to private loans to pay for living costs pre-fees) for 12 years, and even then, they were smaller than they are today. University courses right now do not all cost the same to the government, but the number £7k is getting banded around, so let’s use that. So that’s x3 = £21k in fees alone. Then whack in the further £3k a year for fees. We then add in the liability for another £3.5k a year for maintenance, and let’s not include overdrafts and other things not underwritten by the government. Why were you ever including them? Seems a bit misleading. Anyway, that gives the current government, per student, a total cost of £21k + (3 * £3.5k + £3k) = £40.5k.

    The absolute maximum of this that they can claw back is the £10.5k maintenance loan, and approx £3k per year of the fees, a total of about £20k (when you add in the interest rates for the fees increasing). This could be a bit more or less depending on your maintenance loan, but this will vary. So, even if you paid back every penny now, it’ll still cost the government over £20k to put you through university. Working it out like that, you’d need a (not unreasonable) average salary of £24k a year in order to pay that off within the 25 years allowed to do so. Given that the Association of Graduate Recruiters puts the average starting salary of graduates at £25k, that doesn’t seem too unreasonable. It leaves the government – sorry, taxpayer – with a deficit of £25k.

    Under the new system, the government would pay nothing up front except your loans. Well, not quite, they’d obviously still spend some money, but not on a per-student basis, and they do that already, so let’s ignore that. If we use £9k a year as the average (which we don’t really know if it will be yet), then the government liability is now 3 x £9k + 3 x £3.5k = £40k, of which potentially £40k is repayable.
    So that same chump on £24k all his life will pay back not £20k, but £8,100 over the 30 years that the new loans are due for. This is less. But of course, the average salary for graduates is not £24k, that’s just the absolute minimum average you need to pay off your loan. The absolute minimum you’d need under the new system to pay off the exact same amount is approximately £28.5k. To pay off the full amount, you’d need an average salary of approximately £36k. This isn’t an unreasonable salary to expect as an average for a graduate, but I acknowledge it’s not low, either. But that’s the beauty of it.

    For every person who earns £36k and thus pays back £40,000 over the 30 years, they’ve effectively subsidized another student from ever having to work, and the government ends up with the same amount of money as now. Thus the key number is £28.5k. If all graduates earnt below this, the government would lose more money than now. If all earnt above this, they’d get more money than now.
    So what is the average salary of a graduate over the course of their life? Well average earnings over the course of a life for a graduate are put at anything between £250,000 and £1m. Granted, this is based upon people who lived and have no retired in an age where significantly fewer people had degrees and so they earn’t more, but in that case let’s take the lower limit of that margin of £250k (incidentally, the government claims the average over the course of a lifetime is £400k – approx an extra £10k a year on a working life of 40 years. On £250k that’s a “mere” £6,250 extra a year. And the average salary is, according to the Office for National statistics, £26,000 (rising to £31k if you only include full-time workers – quite a nice number!)

    Which puts the average graduate earnings at approximately £34k mean a year. Which is only just shy of paying off the whole £40k, and well over the £20k they’d be limited to paying under the current system.

    Hello.
    :congrats:
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    This thread is really confusing me. I've finished my first degree under the current system, and will have roughly £20k worth of debt. I'm then going on to do a PGCE next year... so add on another £7k... that's £27k of debt when I leave Uni.

    Under the current system, I only pay off 9% of what I'm earning over £15k, and I would be absolutly gutted if I didn't earn that much after what is going to be 5 years at University. IF I was under the new system, I would start repayments after earning £21k a year (strangely enough, the starting salary for teachers). My salary will go up year on year, so I would have no choice to pay. The salaries will go up with inflation, but the "repayment threshold" wont.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Because it is being increased...

    2) should be 'to increase future govt revenue.
    university funding is being increased because the taxpayer is paying for it to be increased through increased tuition fees.
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    This figure of £21,000 should not be used. It is not £21,000 in todays money it is in 2016 prices. This means realistically you start paying back when you earn £18,500.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    This figure of £21,000 should not be used. It is not £21,000 in todays money it is in 2016 prices. This means realistically you start paying back when you earn £18,500.
    2016 wages not prices.

    I'd be surprised if wages grew by 14% over the next five years but who knows.

    How does referring to a back projected estimate help anyone?
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    university funding is being increased because the taxpayer is paying for it to be increased through increased tuition fees.
    So there is nothing wrong with the BBC saying its being increased. Because it is.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    2016 wages not prices.

    I'd be surprised if wages grew by 14% over the next five years but who knows.

    How does referring to a back projected estimate help anyone?
    Seeing as inflation is over 3% i hope they would increase by that amount. Otherwise everyone will be getting poorer.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    Seeing as inflation is over 3% i hope they would increase by that amount. Otherwise everyone will be getting poorer.
    Yup, you got it!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...yee-pay-freeze
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    why would you link me to an article from the US?
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    .......

    3 year degree = 3x9,000 = £27,000
    4 year degree = 4x9,000 = £36,000

    Full maintainece Grant + Loan = £3,250 in Loan Approx
    Maximum Loan = £4,900 in Loan Approx

    With a Little simple maths you can work out that

    Most ppls debt will range from

    £36,750 - 3year degree with full maintainence.
    to
    £55,600 - 4year degree with maximum loan.

    You pay 9% of your earnings over £21,000
    Your debt is raises with RPI (inflation) + with a maximum of upto 3% interest between £21,000 and £42,000
    At £42,000 you are charged RPI + 3%.

    The best way to look at the system is not how big your debt or loan is, but actually as 9% tax for a duration of 30 years on all earnings over £21,000, as it is very unlikely you will ever pay your entire loan/debt off, due to interest charged.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    why would you link me to an article from the US?
    Because its from yesterday.

    You already know there is a 2 year public pay freeze, this was to demonstrate that the restraint on pay will be longer than that.
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    (Original post by chaz1992)
    We should go upto him with a contract saying we'll pay back £7 a months for 30 years if he gives us a loan for £9k a year tuition fees and £5k a year living expenses. Once he signs it, we're in the green xD.

    He'll probably go against the contract like he did with his promises in the election campaign earlier this year.
    He didn't enter the coalition government as the majority government, so obviously he is not going to be able to commit to 'free tuition fees' for all as it's a totally different ball game now. Hence why he is the one, and not David Cameron, who is now coming out saying things like please don't protest.

    To be honest I think charging for university is a good idea. At school people are encouraged to go to university and the other options, like going to college or getting a job are looked down upon. I think they need to get rid of ridiculous degrees like sports science and fashion technology or whatever. University should be a priviledge and one that you've earned through hard work and determination not just 3/4 years that you spend getting pished.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Because its from yesterday.

    You already know there is a 2 year public pay freeze, this was to demonstrate that the restraint on pay will be longer than that.
    In the US.......... You think we are going to be in recession for the next 5 years???? and thus we won't be able to increase wages?
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    (Original post by sete)
    .......

    3 year degree = 3x9,000 = £27,000
    4 year degree = 4x9,000 = £36,000

    Full maintainece Grant + Loan = £3,250 in Loan Approx
    Maximum Loan = £4,900 in Loan Approx

    With a Little simple maths you can work out that

    Most ppls debt will range from

    £36,750 - 3year degree with full maintainence.
    to
    £55,600 - 4year degree with maximum loan.

    You pay 9% of your earnings over £21,000
    Your debt is raises with RPI (inflation) + with a maximum of upto 3% interest between £21,000 and £42,000
    At £42,000 you are charged RPI + 3%.

    The best way to look at the system is not how big your debt or loan is, but actually as 9% tax for a duration of 30 years on all earnings over £21,000, as it is very unlikely you will ever pay your entire loan/debt off, due to interest charged.
    Exactly but as most wont pay the full amount it will put an extra burden on the tax payer. + rep.
 
 
 
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