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    (Original post by Azimuth)
    It comes from graduates repaying it in the future? That's how loans work.

    The changes aren't supposed to be about getting more money, right now. They're about creating a sustainable funding model for higher education, which will last for many years. This decision isn't necessarily designed to save tons of money right now. It's a long term change to the amount of money universities will receive. Don't forget that the Browne review was commissioned by Labour, at a time when they weren't even talking about reducing the deficit.
    well said.
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    (Original post by Harry-AA)
    You give physics undergrads an horrific name, you just sound completely retarded.
    People are prepared to pay for their education but the government has cut 90% of its funding for higher education, thats why people are pissed off.

    We all expect to pay for it but imagine you're planning to buy a house that will cost you £350 000 and you prepare yourself for it, yet just before you buy it they change the asking price to £900 000, you'd be a little hacked off amirite?
    Oh shut up you free loader!
    Pay for what you use!

    If you don't want to pay higher fees, try going to some university in a 3rd world country, they might only ask you to pay £250 a year!

    And stop trying to keep the UK universities back with your petty, free loading ideas!
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    (Original post by 69Crazyfists)
    No - it's not because A-levels are easy. It's because Labour made 35 polytechnic colleges (which were all good at providing vocational courses) into universities and inevitably they are now offering below par semi-academic courses with low entry requirements. THAT means more people can get into university.
    Actually it was the Tories who turned the polytechnics into Unis (in 1992).


    (Original post by Azimuth)
    It comes from graduates repaying it in the future? That's how loans work.

    The changes aren't supposed to be about getting more money, right now. They're about creating a sustainable funding model for higher education, which will last for many years. This decision isn't necessarily designed to save tons of money right now. It's a long term change to the amount of money universities will receive. Don't forget that the Browne review was commissioned by Labour, at a time when they weren't even talking about reducing the deficit.
    But in a time where we apparently have no money, how are we affording it?
    Plus, my reply was more about the theoretical increase to £20,000, which would stretch the treasury even more. Also don't forget that most people won't pay back the loans.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Actually it was the Tories who turned the polytechnics into Unis (in 1992).
    Ok well whoever it was, my point remains the same.
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    Yes it will great if universities were free like the old days, but guess what, only 5% went so the country could cope with it.

    Now over 40% are going to university, mostly thanks to making a levels easy so tom,**** and harry can all go and waste tax payers money, doing mickey mouse degrees and getting drunk and have one night stands.

    You student all want a world class universities and yet you don't want to pay for your share.

    countries across the world are building billion pound universities while the UK is falling behind due to lack of founds.
    Top top nobel prize lectures are all going to the USA because they pay more!


    The goverment can not build billion pound universities with tax papers money!

    University is not a birth right!

    I am not rich, but I am happying to pay £9000 a year, its a lot cheaper than USA!
    I hate the way university is done on the cheap in the UK.

    Stop complaining and pay for what you use!

    We need to compare to USA!
    Why should the great UK universities be 2nd best??
    UK lead the way in university education and we should try and be number one again!

    next 10 years people like you will be complaining that UK degrees are not respected as much any more...boo hoo hoo
    lol, maybe you should go to university with grammar like that :l :watson:
    Also, since when were A Levels easy, out of everyone i've known a very slim few have ever said they were easy. Improved education has meant that more people recieve a good education up to 16 and so carry on post-16.
    As a student i have never once claimed that going to univeristy was my birth right, i've worked damn hard to get where i am and will continue to do so.
    And no you're right they can't build it all on taxpayers money because they need it to pay for the people in prison £40,000 a year per person i've heard! And then there's covering the cost of failed asylum seekers and the £2.3 billion spent on refurbishing the ministry of defence's Whitehall headquarters.
    Surely tax money was meant for education, health, welfare etc.
    And those going to univeristy will be the high taxpayers of the future, in terms of economy, the more the better! There's nothing wrong with a graduate paying for another future graduate's education, when will be doing the exact same thing is 10 years time.
    Of course, i don't agree with free tuition fees, but i certainly don't think it was necessary for them to be doubled and even tripled.
    If they wanted a way for degrees to remain respectable then they could just have made the entry requirements into uni higher, so only the hardest working get their place. Of course there are issues with this, but if it was regulated properly and students going to a low pass rate fe college were given more leeway compared to a student who went to private prep boarding school then it could work.
    Economically...
    In public expenditure terms, the UK currently spends just 0.7 per cent of its GDP on higher education, a lower level than France (1.2 per cent), Germany (0.9 per cent), Canada (1.5 per cent), Poland (0.9 per cent) and Sweden (1.4 per cent). Even the United States, where students make a considerable private contribution, spends 1 per cent of its GDP on higher education - 0.3 per cent more than the UK does.The coalition's decision to triple tuition fees was a political choice, not an economic necessity.
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    A third class in physics from a decent uni is better than a ****ty arts from a crap uni!
    Hey, you seem pretty knowledgeable in physics I was wondering if you could help with a particular question I am having trouble with from my problem set;

    (Don't worry about the drawing, I have already done it!)
    And sorry about hijacking your thread!

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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    Yes it will great if universities were free like the old days, but guess what, only 5% went so the country could cope with it.
    Also, the national and world economies were structured completely differently to how they are today. 100 years ago, we could get away with only having to educate a small minority of people to degree level as far as things like public administration were concerned.

    Now over 40% are going to university, mostly thanks to making a levels easy so tom,**** and harry can all go and waste tax payers money, doing mickey mouse degrees and getting drunk and have one night stands.
    Getting more school leavers to go to university was a political choice - taken by both Conservative and Labour administrations over the past 20 years. My personal take is that there should be a higher minimum standard that students have to reach before they are eligible to go to university - the equivalent to the old 3Cs with the old A-Level system. It shouldn't matter when in life a person reaches that standard - all that matters is that they should.

    What percentage of prospective students have the aptitude for university education based on that minimum standard or above, I do not know. What I would say though is that whatever that level is, we as a society should fund certainly the first degree up to that level, covered by a graduate tax with a much much higher threshold than is being suggested at present under either the deferred fees or graduate tax systems being spoken of at the moment. (Doing it that way potentially reduces the "eternal student" problem of people continuing to take degrees at taxpayer expense for the rest of their lives).

    - Standards of A-level examinations
    - Standards of degree courses
    With these, one has to look at what the incentives were for the institutions and the (privatised) examination boards. Having so many exam boards offering lots of qualifications, and having universities where it is different to make straight-forward comparisons on standards makes things difficult at a macro-economic level for employers to judge who has had to work harder for their qualifications.

    - Consumption of alcohol
    - Sexual behaviour
    To blame universities for "Booze Britain" and one night stands is pushing it. Go into any market town on a Friday night and you'll find non-students doing the same. Also, top-rated universities do not guarantee consumption of alcohol in moderation and limited sexual activities, as I'm sure a number of students at such institutions will testify to.

    You student[s] all want a world class universities and yet you don't want to pay for your share.
    Depends what "my" share is. One argument that is often made is that the beneficiaries of university education should pay. But no one mentions the employers - especially those specialist firms that target particular universities. There is no systematic mechanism for employers of graduates to make contributions to institutions from where they get their graduates from. All of the burden seems to fall on the "human" rather than the "institution" which strikes me as being more than a little unfair.

    [C]ountries across the world are building billion pound universities while the UK is falling behind due to lack of founds.
    Top top nobel prize lectures are all going to the USA because they pay more!
    All of them?

    The goverment can not build billion pound universities with tax papers [payers] money!
    No one's said anything about building more universities thus far. I think there is the option of privatising a small number of the poorer performing universities to see if the private sector can turn them around. I would be 100% against privatising the crown jewels - I'm not into privatising the profits and nationalising the losses.

    University is not a birth right!

    I am not rich, but I am happying to pay £9000 a year, its a lot cheaper than USA!
    The issue isn't about birth rights; it's about the impact that huge debts will have on the incentives to get people from very poor backgrounds to go to university. £9000 may not be much to someone from an affluent family, but it is a massive amount of money for someone from a poor family - something that a lot of people forget.


    I hate the way university is done on the cheap in the UK.
    So do most people - the difference of opinion is over how university should be funded.

    Stop complaining and pay for what you use!

    We need to compare to USA!
    Why should the great UK universities be 2nd best??
    UK lead the way in university education and we should try and be number one again!

    next 10 years people like you will be complaining that UK degrees are not respected as much any more...boo hoo hoo
    Given the size of the UK's population and economy compared to the USA, the UK is punching way above its weight.

    As for complaining about degrees being respected, the term "Mickey Mouse" degrees really does not help - especially when the people with the dodgy academic credentials (Gillian McKeith) seem to get them from dodgy places in...the USA.
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    Oh shut up you free loader!
    Pay for what you use!

    If you don't want to pay higher fees, try going to some university in a 3rd world country, they might only ask you to pay £250 a year!

    And stop trying to keep the UK universities back with your petty, free loading ideas!
    You completely and utterly missed my point moron. I am prepared to pay for what I use, but in my opinion cuts as excessive as this are going to damage the future of this country hugely.

    I don't know why I'm even replying to you because you honestly sound mentally challenged. But, to your point about holding UK universities back. Many of the smaller and less established universities are not going to have the reputation needed to demand higher tuition fee's and as the government won't be subsidising the courses at all, this means that they will find it very hard to cover the costs of providing the course and may well end up having shut up shop. You, in your arrogance, may think that this is a good thing but it isn't.

    There are also many fields that are vital to the growth of an economy and developing society that will be hit hard. Take research science for example as you have a clear interest in physics. Many jobs in research are very badly paid, that is fact. Yet we need research scientists to develop new medicines and technology to aid others. Students who have an interest in this field may find themselves in a situation where they have to question whether they can afford to go into it with such a massive burdan or debt on their shoulders. Our country may be missing out on great minds because of this.

    So no ****tard I will not shutup and I am not a freeloader. I merely have a concern for the effect these cuts will have on the future of our economy. That is all.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    But in a time where we apparently have no money, how are we affording it?
    It's not that we have "no money". It's that we spend more money than we get in via tax. This is normal, and most developed countries in the world are the same. The extra money comes from borrowing. The difference with us is that we borrow far more than we should, and it's causing a serious debt problem. What this means is that, while we can theoretically throw as much money at anything as we want (see: hundreds of billions of pounds spent bailing out banks), we shouldn't, if we're to think of our long term national debt. However, if the temporary spending increase is going to go towards eventually creating more money for us in the future, it's considered to be worth it.

    We're cutting university funding by 80%. Either that covers the temporary increase in expenditure caused by the higher fees loans anyway, or it doesn't and we're spending a bit extra, which is okay for the reasons above.

    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Also don't forget that most people won't pay back the loans.
    Those people are subsidised by the top earners, who will pay back far more than what they actually borrowed, due to interest. It's a progressive system with the most well-off paying for those at the bottom who don't pay off their loans.
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    Yes it will great if universities were free like the old days, but guess what, only 5% went so the country could cope with it.

    Now over 40% are going to university, mostly thanks to making a levels easy so tom,**** and harry can all go and waste tax payers money, doing mickey mouse degrees and getting drunk and have one night stands.

    You student all want a world class universities and yet you don't want to pay for your share.

    countries across the world are building billion pound universities while the UK is falling behind due to lack of founds.
    Top top nobel prize lectures are all going to the USA because they pay more!


    The goverment can not build billion pound universities with tax papers money!

    University is not a birth right!

    I am not rich, but I am happying to pay £9000 a year, its a lot cheaper than USA!
    I hate the way university is done on the cheap in the UK.

    Stop complaining and pay for what you use!

    We need to compare to USA!
    Why should the great UK universities be 2nd best??
    UK lead the way in university education and we should try and be number one again!

    next 10 years people like you will be complaining that UK degrees are not respected as much any more...boo hoo hoo
    I'm sick of your mum but still have to get into bed with her every night.

    You came to a student forum to moan about students standing up for their rights?

    EPIC FAIL !

    :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    What you simple?
    We need to compare to USA!
    Why should the great UK universities be 2nd best??
    UK lead the way in university education and we should try and be number one again!

    next 10 years people like you will be complaining who UK degrees are not respected as much any more...boo hoo hoo
    Cambridge, Oxford, UCL, Imperial, LSE...these are all considered world class and on par with the top 15 or so US schools/Ivy league. Proportionately, we are just as good, if not better than the US. But it is going to be hard to rival the sheer NUMBER of top universities in America, as they invest so heavily in their schools.
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    (Original post by physics2011)
    yes it will great if universities were free like the old days, but guess what, only 5% went so the country could cope with it.

    Now over 40% are going to university, mostly thanks to making a levels easy so tom,**** and harry can all go and waste tax payers money, doing mickey mouse degrees and getting drunk and have one night stands.

    You student all want a world class universities and yet you don't want to pay for your share.

    Countries across the world are building billion pound universities while the uk is falling behind due to lack of founds.
    Top top nobel prize lectures are all going to the usa because they pay more!


    The goverment can not build billion pound universities with tax papers money!

    University is not a birth right!

    I am not rich, but i am happying to pay £9000 a year, its a lot cheaper than usa!
    I hate the way university is done on the cheap in the uk.

    Stop complaining and pay for what you use!

    We need to compare to usa!
    Why should the great uk universities be 2nd best??
    Uk lead the way in university education and we should try and be number one again!

    Next 10 years people like you will be complaining that uk degrees are not respected as much any more...boo hoo hoo
    f u c k y o u
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    culture of entitlement is all i have to say
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    Yes it will great if universities were free like the old days, but guess what, only 5% went so the country could cope with it.

    Now over 40% are going to university, mostly thanks to making a levels easy so tom,**** and harry can all go and waste tax payers money, doing mickey mouse degrees and getting drunk and have one night stands.
    ..

    this doesn't make sense sure if less people were going then it would be fairer to make the few pay their fees rather than make everyone pay for the advantage of a few people.
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    Yes it will great if universities were free like the old days, but guess what, only 5% went so the country could cope with it.

    Now over 40% are going to university, mostly thanks to making a levels easy so tom,**** and harry can all go and waste tax payers money, doing mickey mouse degrees and getting drunk and have one night stands.

    You student all want a world class universities and yet you don't want to pay for your share.

    countries across the world are building billion pound universities while the UK is falling behind due to lack of founds.
    Top top nobel prize lectures are all going to the USA because they pay more!


    The goverment can not build billion pound universities with tax papers money!

    University is not a birth right!

    I am not rich, but I am happying to pay £9000 a year, its a lot cheaper than USA!
    I hate the way university is done on the cheap in the UK.

    Stop complaining and pay for what you use!

    We need to compare to USA!
    Why should the great UK universities be 2nd best??
    UK lead the way in university education and we should try and be number one again!

    next 10 years people like you will be complaining that UK degrees are not respected as much any more...boo hoo hoo
    So you'd be happy if the Govt didn't provide loans too right?
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    (Original post by Physics2011)
    Oh shut up you free loader!
    Pay for what you use!
    Will you come on my protest for upfront fees?
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    Just thought you might like to know, Cambridge is ranked #1 in the world in the QS table.
 
 
 
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