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I am poor and want to do a 2nd degree...how to fund this? Watch

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    (Original post by Astarael Weeper)
    I am trying to get onto a second degree in Zoology, and am finding the money situation is going to be impossible. I would be happy to work for a couple of years to raise the fees and then work part time for my maintenence, that would be simple. But OH NO I CAN'T, because if I don't start in 2011, then the fees will double, and I'd be back at square 1 having nowhere near enough.

    I can apply for a professional study loan, the maximum is £10000. That would cover fees only. I thought ok, I'll do it part time so I can work, but it seems I'll need to work around 30hrs pw to fund rent/bills/everything, which is not going to fit well around uni.
    This is a perfect example of why it's just plain wrong to put tution fees up threefold. The "you don'e have to pay it back till you earn over 21k" totally falls apart if you want to do a 2nd or 3rd degree. The coalition is just plain elitist. They want to make further education an exclusive club for but the rich who can afford it, not us common people.

    This comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc
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    I'm applying for a graduate degree in medicine:

    Due to already having an undergraduate degree, I can't apply for tuition fee loans in any way. The NHS will cover it in years 2-4 (for school leavers they only do the 5th year). I can apply for a maintenance loan, and that's it. So you're left to find the first year of tuition fees yourself.

    The amount of money needed for training, the quality of research and teaching needed to meet the General Medical Council's requirements for a med school license it's almost certain that all schools will hit the 9k limit.

    Some ask for the payments in instalments, which is a con seeing as you have to have proof of the ability to fund the totality of the first year before they let you start. (Side note, I hear Oxbridge make everyone do that, is it true? Does a loan letter count?)

    My personal fears are they years 2-4 will only be part funded by the NHS too, due to the cuts in funding to it (Don't believe the Tory lies, it only looks like they're getting more funds because they've lumped health and social care together for the first time, so in reality it's being hit hard) so if they don't relax the rules about tuition loans I'll potentially have to find another £15,000+ (estimated, could be as much as 20) and for others it could be as much as £35,000! :eek:

    A lot of people have shown their true colours over this. I'm really getting tired of of people who base their own opinions on things that only directly affect themselves. Make no mistake, this is going to be as divisive for social mobility as anything Blair did. Not only that, but they're opening up the market capitlisation of knowledge and I really don't see anyone except for Labour (yeah right) rolling back on it.
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    (Original post by winter_mute)
    I'm applying for a graduate degree in medicine:

    Due to already having an undergraduate degree, I can't apply for tuition fee loans in any way. The NHS will cover it in years 2-4 (for school leavers they only do the 5th year). I can apply for a maintenance loan, and that's it. So you're left to find the first year of tuition fees yourself.

    The amount of money needed for training, the quality of research and teaching needed to meet the General Medical Council's requirements for a med school license it's almost certain that all schools will hit the 9k limit.

    Some ask for the payments in instalments, which is a con seeing as you have to have proof of the ability to fund the totality of the first year before they let you start. (Side note, I hear Oxbridge make everyone do that, is it true? Does a loan letter count?)

    My personal fears are they years 2-4 will only be part funded by the NHS too, due to the cuts in funding to it (Don't believe the Tory lies, it only looks like they're getting more funds because they've lumped health and social care together for the first time, so in reality it's being hit hard) so if they don't relax the rules about tuition loans I'll potentially have to find another £15,000+ (estimated, could be as much as 20) and for others it could be as much as £35,000! :eek:

    A lot of people have shown their true colours over this. I'm really getting tired of of people who base their own opinions on things that only directly affect themselves. Make no mistake, this is going to be as divisive for social mobility as anything Blair did. Not only that, but they're opening up the market capitlisation of knowledge and I really don't see anyone except for Labour (yeah right) rolling back on it.
    Random question I know, but where did you get your username from?
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    (Original post by blue_shift86)
    hear hear! I'm in total agreement. How can kids be sure what they want to do with your lives when they only tell you to start thinking about what course you want to apply for a week after your AS levels finish...i.e. you have but 1 month over the summer to decide what degree you want to do and a month doing the UCAS (for oxbridge), and a few months more for normal applications? It's rediculous. Whilst travelling I met many germans and they seem to have a fabulous education system whereby they have a year or more to decide what they want to study and it seems less pressured. They actually apply for uni after they've done they're equivalent of alevels! Now if only we had something like that in the UK we'd be sorted.

    There is far too much pressure and too little advise about universities in the UK, at least if you went to a normal state comp like myself. You private school guys can clarify what happens in your respective school in terms of advise on further education.
    So you didn't think to start considering degree choices until they told you too. Does that not tell you that maybe you're not ready for a degree?

    And of course you can apply after A Levels in the UK. It's called a gap year. I know several people who are doing this...
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    So you didn't think to start considering degree choices until they told you too. Does that not tell you that maybe you're not ready for a degree?

    And of course you can apply after A Levels in the UK. It's called a gap year. I know several people who are doing this...
    Yer but it's like the social norm...at the time you just did it. If you didn't people frowned and thought u were a lazy bum or stupid. It's easier said in hindsight and in hindsight I wish I did take a gap year, or two.

    On another note, now that these tuition fees have gone up, I don't think i''l be EVER doing a 2nd degree. I am not eligible for more funding and 9k a year is impossible for me to afford even if i get a job.

    Shame on you ConDem!
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    I totally agree that 2nd degrees should get no support.
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    All the options have already been given:

    1. If it's to get into a certain career, do a masters
    2. If it's for enjoyment, do it with the OU (part time, or even full time - the fees are still far less than normal university, and you can live wherever is cheapest and most convenient for you)
    3. You could even just self-study from university textbooks -this is particularly possible for something like maths, though the OU is probably still better
    3. Some people go to Birkbeck, but it's still not cheap - and it's in London
    4. If you need a bit of foundation knowledge before doing a masters, you can either a) do a foundation year or b) do some OU modules before moving on to a masters
    5. But given how vague you are about what you want to do, your degree probably isn't the issue anyway. Neither finance nor teaching would require you do a whole new undergraduate degree.

    Though, despite all the above, I still have no idea what I'm going to end up doing, and I'm considerably older than you. I think one of the main reasons I keep reading TSR is to try to get some idea of what I want to do next, but it's not really helping, I still have no idea. Probably unemployment, then.

    As for all the political discussion as to who should or should not receive university funding: meh.
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    Hi Blue

    I totally feel your pain. I'm just about to finish my degree (BSc in psychology and philosophy) and i've been planning to audition for a contemporary dance school for a proper three year dance course, which is a dream of mine!!

    Thing is, i started applying, and its going to cost £14000 a year in tuition alone! WTF?! My mum can barely afford to help me out with my current degree. There is no chance she'd be able to pay for that, and think how long i'd have to work to save up £14000x3 (£40grand+!!!!) I would be too old to be a dancer by then.

    I'm not sure what im going to do anymore, At school they pretty much made everyone apply to uni, and while im grateful it helped me get into a good one, seriously i didn't know that it would be MY ONE AND ONLY CHANCE to decide what i wanted to do. That is stupid. Jeez, some of these people's attitudes has really annoyed me. I think that if you're going to pay back the loan, you should be able to get one for any course you want, it's not like they're actually paying for my course, i am. I don't mind them putting fees up, but just let me get a loan to do the damn thing.... i'm really confused about what this means. I can't quite accept that it means i can't do it....

    And if anyone says its my fault, i should've known i wanted to be a dancer at 17, i think that's quite ridiculous because a lot of stuff happens around that time (or at least it did for me, and i don't think i should have to open up about it to make my point) and you grow up a lot and learn about yourself at university. Now im ready to pursue my dream; i never believed in myself before as a dancer even though i wanted to do it. I still think my mum will laugh. But iv improved a lot; i know i can do it. It's just a total let-down.

    I'm gonna see what options i have. But still its ****.
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    (Original post by blue_shift86)
    Yer but it's like the social norm...at the time you just did it. If you didn't people frowned and thought u were a lazy bum or stupid. It's easier said in hindsight and in hindsight I wish I did take a gap year, or two.

    On another note, now that these tuition fees have gone up, I don't think i''l be EVER doing a 2nd degree. I am not eligible for more funding and 9k a year is impossible for me to afford even if i get a job.

    Shame on you ConDem!

    You are not entitled to a degree or to sponge off other people to get it.

    I am earning close to 6K a year being an Ebay Seller whilst doing a medical degree at the same time. There are always ways to get money together.

    Just feel lucky that you have a degree in a decent subject that you can actually get job for. So many people out there have degrees that no one takes seriously.
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    Do you seriously expect everything in your life handed to you on a plate? This is your own fault. Get a job, the state can't nanny you forever.
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    I can only assume that everybody who is so unsympathetic to those wishing to do a second degree are either:

    • Under 21 with very little experience of adult life
    • Lucky enough to get it right the first time and end up with a degree and then a career that makes them happy.
    • Bitter that they aren't happy with their lives and don't want anybody else to be either!



    At 17, no matter how sure you are about what you want to do, you can't see into the future. Even if you enjoy your first degree (I loved mine) then the realities of working in that field afterwards may be disappointing, or it may be very very hard to find meaningful work in your field. Many graduates end up doing menial jobs or ones that are completely unrelated to their subject. Its not just about the degree itself, its about the 45 or so years after that when you're working every day. If you realise that you could make a better contribution to society or be much happier in another field and a degree is the only way to get into that field, why is that such a problem?

    Many teenagers go to university due to pressure from family or schools, or because they always assumed they would even though they haven't figured out their true passion yet. I think its exceptionally cruel when the government are handing out massive debts left right and centre to deny them to the relatively small number of people who need them a second time round. If anything, there might be more chance of them actually getting paid back because somebody choosing a second degree as an adult is far more likely to choose something that will lead to a well paying, secure career.
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    (Original post by Larrabee)
    I can only assume that everybody who is so unsympathetic to those wishing to do a second degree are either:

    • Under 21 with very little experience of adult life
    • Lucky enough to get it right the first time and end up with a degree and then a career that makes them happy.
    • Bitter that they aren't happy with their lives and don't want anybody else to be either!



    At 17, no matter how sure you are about what you want to do, you can't see into the future. Even if you enjoy your first degree (I loved mine) then the realities of working in that field afterwards may be disappointing, or it may be very very hard to find meaningful work in your field. Many graduates end up doing menial jobs or ones that are completely unrelated to their subject. Its not just about the degree itself, its about the 45 or so years after that when you're working every day. If you realise that you could make a better contribution to society or be much happier in another field and a degree is the only way to get into that field, why is that such a problem?

    Many teenagers go to university due to pressure from family or schools, or because they always assumed they would even though they haven't figured out their true passion yet. I think its exceptionally cruel when the government are handing out massive debts left right and centre to deny them to the relatively small number of people who need them a second time round. If anything, there might be more chance of them actually getting paid back because somebody choosing a second degree as an adult is far more likely to choose something that will lead to a well paying, secure career.
    I took 2 years out before applying to university so that I could travel and think through what I wanted to study. If people rush into their decisions and make the wrong ones, it's their own faults and therefore they should take responsibility for it. There's only so far the tax payer can baby sit you.
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    (Original post by Cuckoo91)
    I took 2 years out before applying to university so that I could travel and think through what I wanted to study. If people rush into their decisions and make the wrong ones, it's their own faults and therefore they should take responsibility for it. There's only so far the tax payer can baby sit you.

    Lots of people who realise later that they made the wrong decision were 100% sure at the time with no reason to doubt their chosen degree. Things change, people deserve a second chance, loans get repayed.
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    (Original post by Larrabee)
    Lots of people who realise later that they made the wrong decision were 100% sure at the time with no reason to doubt their chosen degree. Things change, people deserve a second chance, loans get repayed.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-2158168.html
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    Well that's the Tory's fault for making the fees ridiculously high, one of the major flaws in that system is that its so high hardly any of it will be repaid, just watch as they move the repayment goalposts in a few years time to start clawing it back.
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    I too am one of those 'immature' folk who has a degree, and now wishes she'd done something different :rolleyes:

    I had a crap home life which I couldn't wait to get away from, a total lack of family money, advisors who just told me to 'follow my interests', a history of good grades, and no advice from anyone other than to get a degree. As soon as I got accepted to an upper class uni, that was it. 'Go get your degree, you'll work it out later. Stick at your degree, you're at XXX uni. Just finish your degree, you can do more study later.' I know, excuses, right? But it's true.

    Frankly I've changed a lot in the years during university, and after. Before I was a very good student with a genuine liking for almost all subjects. Now I genuinely know my strengths and weaknesses, and what I am actually good at, rather than what I can simply 'do'. There's a big difference between 'following your interests' and actually making a good tactical decision on a degree subject, which no one pointed out to me, and I was too blind to see it.

    I want now to do a specialised degree to get me into a different career. Finding out about ELQ fees- and now the tuition fee hike- has been flipping crushing

    OP, I'd recommend that you apply this year just in case, because you'll avoid the fee raise. But there's just no way around it. You want to go to uni again, you've got to pay hard in time and money. *Some* universities won't charge you ELQ fees for certain subjects...
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    Just do a part time masters or something. Do you really need a whole undergraduate degree? A MSc would look far better than 2x BSc.

    This.

    At a lot of institutions, you're able to spread the MA / Msc study over 2 years or 36 months. During this time, you can work part-time.

    Do you envisage that the second degree / masters will lead directly into a specific career/job? Can I ask what degree subject you are thinking of taking on?
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    Open University.
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    (Original post by blue_shift86)
    This is a perfect example of why it's just plain wrong to put tution fees up threefold. The "you don'e have to pay it back till you earn over 21k" totally falls apart if you want to do a 2nd or 3rd degree. The coalition is just plain elitist. They want to make further education an exclusive club for but the rich who can afford it, not us common people.

    This comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc
    One of the most stupid things I've ever read on here!

    It isn't elitist telling wastrels that the taxpayer won't fund them fannying around doing degree after degree!
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    (Original post by hypocriticaljap)
    One of the most stupid things I've ever read on here!

    It isn't elitist telling wastrels that the taxpayer won't fund them fannying around doing degree after degree!
    So people like winter mute who want to do second degrees in medicine. they're wastrels are they? Those doctors, they don't contribute to society at all!

    Did you know that a high proportion of nurses and other health professionals have first degrees in unrelated subjects?

    I can see where doing degree after degree until you're 60 and never actually getting a job might be a bit of an issue, but realistically how many people would actually do this? Most people who do second degrees do so in order to get into a specific career or to better their career prospects, leading to them being more productive, not less.
 
 
 
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