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    A Freikorps is needed. I will spearhead it from my computer, now all we need is the body of the force and weapons we could use to subdue malnourished crowds of skinny jeans
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    (Original post by Matthew_Lowson)
    Its frightening - some folk clearly aint safe to walk the streets.

    JUSTIFY GREED - SIMPLE - COME ON, JUSTIFY THE GREED OF A GOVERNMENT MAKING THEIR OWN SAVING

    We are not going to get any higher standard are we? So why should students pay 9 grand? When they can expect the same standards as someone paying 3 GRAND?

    A simple polite request, JUSTIFY GREED, and then I think everyone will fall behind you. -

    The only reason I'd say £4500 would be decent is because of the rise of the barrier by 40% - That is the only concession I would make - TO ENSURE STUDENTS HAVE A FAIR DEAL. -

    Justify the greed of the government - I urge you
    I take it you understand that we are billions of pounds in debt, and that the government is not a single entity akin to Scrooge, but a collective of people on fixed salaries. That they only asking people to pay what degrees actually cost.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    I'm getting tired of seeing and hearing about these tuition fee cuts and student protests.

    THERE ARE BIGGER THINGS GOING ON IN THE WORLD

    Yes. There are.

    Ok. Granted that this is a student forum, but look:

    You won't have to pay any of the debt unless when you leave University, you start top earn over £21,000 per annum.

    It's not that bad. How many of these students are going to be earning that amount when they find that upon leaving their education they'll be tossing burgers at a fast food chain, pulling pints at the local, or sat behind a till in T.J.Hughes? Or even unemployed?

    How many?

    Even if you do get that kind of salary, it's only £7 per month. Granted for a long time, but that debt can be written off, apparently.

    WHAT IS THE FUSS ABOUT?

    At this present moment, I find myself unable to eat properly or afford decent clothing, worried about my own debt problems, baliffs turning up at the door, court charges, unable to put the gas on, rent increase next month and I'll have to find somewhere else to live because I can't afford the rent anymore.

    I've not gone to the local council and protested about my rent no longer getting paid in full. I've not phoned British Gas to complain about the rise in fuel prices. I haven't stormed the local supermarket demanding to stop rising food prices.

    Seriously. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

    Surely by your logic, you have nothing to worry about, as there are people much worse off starving in Africa?
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    (Original post by Matthew_Lowson)
    Its frightening - some folk clearly aint safe to walk the streets.

    JUSTIFY GREED - SIMPLE - COME ON, JUSTIFY THE GREED OF A GOVERNMENT MAKING THEIR OWN SAVING

    We are not going to get any higher standard are we? So why should students pay 9 grand? When they can expect the same standards as someone paying 3 GRAND?

    A simple polite request, JUSTIFY GREED, and then I think everyone will fall behind you. -

    The only reason I'd say £4500 would be decent is because of the rise of the barrier by 40% - That is the only concession I would make - TO ENSURE STUDENTS HAVE A FAIR DEAL. -

    Justify the greed of the government - I urge you
    Personally I don't see whats so unfair about lending students the money to pay in full for their degrees, but asking for that to be paid back in return. Sure, there's interest, and the numbers are scary, but really thats a psychological problem - not a financial one. The repayments will be manageable for everyone.

    Also, I wouldn't say this is greed, actually. If anything, the Government will lose money out of this, despite the cuts, through lending students so much money.

    The only barrier this should throw up to any potential uni student is psychological - there is no concrete reason for people not to go - and if people think their degree is worth it, they will go. If this discourages those people who unfortunately waste their time at uni, at taxpayer expense, then I'm all for it.

    And btw if fees were set at £9000, with similar student numbers, many universities would actually see an increase in funding, despite the cuts.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    I'm getting tired of seeing and hearing about these tuition fee cuts and student protests.

    Go to bed then.

    THERE ARE BIGGER THINGS GOING ON IN THE WORLD

    Like Englands failed world cup bid that cost £0.5bn which is obviously more important than educating the future of Britain. I can't see your point. Our prime minister cares more about a summer football tournament than he does about the future of millions.

    Yes. There are.

    No there are not.

    Ok. Granted that this is a student forum, but look:

    You won't have to pay any of the debt unless when you leave University, you start top earn over £21,000 per annum.

    So what? Its still a debt.

    It's not that bad. How many of these students are going to be earning that amount when they find that upon leaving their education they'll be tossing burgers at a fast food chain, pulling pints at the local, or sat behind a till in T.J.Hughes? Or even unemployed?

    Thats a stupid statement to make. A lot of graduates do get a good job in a field of choice. Even if they go abroad to get work they are still lumbered with a much higher amount of debt.

    How many?

    Why ask? You seem to think you know everything else and how the world has far bigger issues than the future of our own country. Just you wait until all the academically gifted people go elsewhere to use their skills and Britains economy goes down the pan.

    Even if you do get that kind of salary, it's only £7 per month. Granted for a long time, but that debt can be written off, apparently.

    £7 per month. You are not taking into account promotions and interest that is added on. Someone paying that much per month would hardly cut into interest so debt may still increase. It all depends on percentages. Figures and statistics you do not have.

    WHAT IS THE FUSS ABOUT?

    Urm, let me guess? :rolleyes: students in 2012 onwards being charged a lot more for the same degrees as those so far and those that will enter in 2011. Thats what the fuss is about and how students will be lumbered with much more debt and interest. A bigger interest on a bigger debt means longer to pay off.

    At this present moment, I find myself unable to eat properly or afford decent clothing, worried about my own debt problems, baliffs turning up at the door, court charges, unable to put the gas on, rent increase next month and I'll have to find somewhere else to live because I can't afford the rent anymore.

    All of your own doing. You slate others and then have the cheek to moan about your own issues. Bailiffs at the door are 100% your own fault as they do not chase down student loans so you have commercial debt through irresponsible financing and budgeting and the court orders are your own fault. Don't complain about your own self inflicted issues. Many students act responsibly so do not lash out at all students because of your own idiotic behaviour.

    I've not gone to the local council and protested about my rent no longer getting paid in full.

    How could you protest? If the council pays your rent (the taxpayer) then your moaning can stop now. If you pay the rent then that's your own fault or just tough luck. You may have lost a job but that's no reason to go and moan at students because you have nothing else to do.

    I've not phoned British Gas to complain about the rise in fuel prices. I haven't stormed the local supermarket demanding to stop rising food prices.

    There is a difference between moaning about thousands of pounds worth of debt and pennies added on at the supermarket. Grow up. Also, a tin of beans at the supermarket do not gain interest over time, student loans do.

    Seriously. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

    Who are you to say such things? I will have a debt of about 25k as I start in 2011. Someone starting a year later may have a debt of 40k+.

    I think they have every reason to moan for having to pay an extra 15k+ for the same degree and education.


    I hope that angry face is an emotion you have expressed towards yourself as you only have yourself to blame for the commercial debts and bailiffs hounding you. I think you're just lashing out because you are annoyed with yourself. Grow up and admit you're at blame instead of targeting sixth formers and college students who are in their teenage years.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    And?
    And you can get lost.

    I don't need someone on JSA telling me to stop fighting for the future of other academics.

    Maybe you should get off your arse and get a job or go and get an education. Maybe then you can cast judgement.

    You take money from the taxpayer and spend it on living, etc - I also see you have the internet paid for by the taxpayer. You don't pay it back. No need to thank us all.

    Yet you moan at students trying to improve their lives and gain an education at the hands of the taxpayer - yet they pay their loans back after graduation. Not only that, you clearly don't work as you are on JSA when thousands of students have to work as well as study to make a simple living amount.

    You clearly have no intention of working as you have commercial debt whilst on JSA so have squandered more money rather than making a living. I'm surprised you had the effort to come on here and type you lazy *******. Go and get a job instead of coming on here and running down people who are clearly more worthwhile to Britain and the economy of Europe than you are you leech.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Take into consideration that I'm not earning a wage.
    Get a job then you lazy bone idled JSA leech.

    Students work hard academically, a lot take on jobs whilst studying, some pay tax - you don't pay tax and they also take out loans to cover accommodation and fee's - you have your life paid for.

    I am going to track you through IP and report you for benefit fraud. You clearly are a lazy person on here moaning about students who are more beneficial to the world than you.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    What I am wondering is if students would be happy if instead of having to pay higher fees, the government asked(not mandated) them to donate a small percentage of their yearly salaries to their university. Given just how little British universities get from their alumni compared to their American counterparts and the benefits a degree brings them, I find it amazing that university alumni here have so little involvement with the institute that played such a big role in shaping their lives.
    This is a great suggestion.

    I have had my issues with you in the past but I fully agree with this.

    I would be more than happy to pay a percentage of my salary to the university that helped me in the first place. If that salary was over a threshold.
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)
    From what I've observed, the students are doing a damn good job of widening the issues beyond fees but to the wider cuts & tax avoidance/evasion issues.

    Even readers of the Daily Mail are backing the anti-avoidance protests - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ens-taxes.html

    It may have started off about fees, but it's exploded into something much much bigger than that. The tax avoidance/evasion issue is a tricky one for thd political classes and the corporate media to handle because:

    - Of the scale of the problem already aclnowledged by the public
    - The fact that no one can be seen to be "backing crime"
    - The repeated line of "We're all in this together" being inconsistent with the high-level tax avoidance - ie the offshore stuff
    - The grassroots nature of the movement making "leaders" very hard to target - because there aren't any.

    The fact that UKuncut has adopted the brand "Big Society Revenue & Customs" - & taking the Coalition's mantra of stepping in where the state cannot or will not take action, is taking "Big Society" in a totally different direction - none which any of us policy-wonks saw coming. Ditto with the pathetic attempts by the "Taxpayers' "Show us who's funding you" Alliance's attempts to recreate a "teaparty" movement against high taxes. They've got the movement - only it's around the issue of tax avoidance & tax evasion. The "other" Taxpayers' Alliance have been in stitches all afternoon.
    Exactly.

    £25bn in tax avoidance every year. That could be used in grants for students and help towards other services. Absolutely disgraceful.
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    :facepalm2: save yourself the embarrassment and get off TSR!
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Exactly.

    £25bn in tax avoidance every year. That could be used in grants for students and help towards other services. Absolutely disgraceful.
    £25bn! :yikes: disgraceful indeed. I think this cut is ideologically driven.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    This is a great suggestion.

    I have had my issues with you in the past but I fully agree with this.

    I would be more than happy to pay a percentage of my salary to the university that helped me in the first place. If that salary was over a threshold.
    I worked on the Annual Fund last year and can tell you that a lot of people don't donate even if you ring up and have a nice chat with them first.
    It's a good idea but I'm not sure if it would work. A lot of universities already run Annual funds as well
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    As one of the placards from the protests put it:

    THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT FEES YOU PATRONISING GIT.
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    Oh and what are you doing talking about your own hardships when there are people starving to death of AIDs NO ONE SHOULD CARE ABOUT ANYTHING UNLESS YOU'RE THE WORLD'S WORST OFF PERSON, there's no such thing as an injustice unless you're the person suffering most in the world. **** off.
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    Oh and what are you doing talking about your own hardships when there are people starving to death of AIDs NO ONE SHOULD CARE ABOUT ANYTHING UNLESS YOU'RE THE WORLD'S WORST OFF PERSON, there's no such thing as an injustice unless you're the person suffering most in the world. **** off.
    I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say here?

    don't get me wrong, I don't like OP either!
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    (Original post by Holly Hiskey)
    I worked on the Annual Fund last year and can tell you that a lot of people don't donate even if you ring up and have a nice chat with them first.
    It's a good idea but I'm not sure if it would work. A lot of universities already run Annual funds as well
    I agree if they had a choice they wouldn't but if there was an automatic system in place that was deducted from your salary if above a certain threshold then it would be good.

    For example if I earn £60,000 per year as a computer scientist after graduation and 5% was taken each year then every year I would pay back £3000 of my salary so therefore the university would gain more funding as this would go right through working life. As I'm on £57,000 per year I doubt £3,000 to the university that got me such a salary is that much of a problem.

    £3000 x 30 years work = £90,000 total - which goes straight to the uni taken from salary to help future students. Therefore, as it goes straight to the university it is not wasted by the government and will be put into funding the university which will then raise academic standards.

    Even on £30,000 I would pay back £1000 per year guaranteed.

    Even if the percentage was higher than 5%, lets say 7.5% or 10%. I would rather it go to the university than into the hands of a careless government that uses it to let Topman and Vodafone off a tax bill.

    The taxpayer would also pay a lot, lot less.

    There should be a cap on how much each year you give to the university though.

    If someone comes out of university and becomes a millionaire then its a bit harsh that they have to give up 10% of their yearly income to the university. Maybe at £30,000 per year as a cap. Therefore, millionaires who have graduated would pay back into a university every year and would cover the cost for a course for 1 student. This would be brilliant and would push universities to make more of their students to gain a bigger return in the future. Its a win/win cycle.
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    (Original post by TobeTheHero)
    I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say here?

    don't get me wrong, I don't like OP either!
    The idea that students should shut up and stop protesting because there are people suffering far more than they will is misguided and dangerous. If anything people should protest more instead of grumbling silently and doing nothing about it. You have a VOICE for a purpose and there are things in a democracy you can and should use it for. SPEAK! Or you will die irrelevant. We already are, to a large extent, irrelevant; this was exemplified by the Lib Dem's u-turn on a supposedly flagship policy and a set of personal pledges. Yeah, this happens all the time in politics (apart from the personal pledge bit). But people should be this angry every single time their elected "representatives" lie to them. They should be this angry every single time politicians put the interests of the economically powerful minority over the interests of the people (which is every ****ing day). How else are they to be held to account? Do they really fear the ballot box that much when they can just drift into a well-paid boardroom directorship or the House of Lords if they stop being an MP? No. We hold politicians to account with the constant and real threat of action if they **** up. Just like the state holds us in place with the constant and real threat of violence if we don't play ball.

    That aside, many of the students who are protesting sympathise with those affected by housing benefit and JSA cuts and oppose those cuts on principle, something our OP would know if he cared to find out.
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    The idea that students should shut up and stop protesting because there are people suffering far more than they will is misguided and dangerous. If anything people should protest more instead of grumbling silently and doing nothing about it. You have a VOICE for a purpose and there are things in a democracy you can and should use it for. SPEAK! Or you will die irrelevant. We already are, to a large extent, irrelevant; this was exemplified by the Lib Dem's u-turn on a supposedly flagship policy and a set of personal pledges. Yeah, this happens all the time in politics (apart from the personal pledge bit). But people should be this angry every single time their elected "representatives" lie to them. They should be this angry every single time politicians put the interests of the economically powerful minority over the interests of the people (which is every ****ing day). How else are they to be held to account? Do they really fear the ballot box that much when they can just drift into a well-paid boardroom directorship or the House of Lords if they stop being an MP? No. We hold politicians to account with the constant and real threat of action if they **** up. Just like the state holds us in place with the constant and real threat of violence if we don't play ball.

    That aside, many of the students who are protesting sympathise with those affected by housing benefit and JSA cuts and oppose those cuts on principle, something our OP would know if he cared to find out.
    Kudos! Agree with everything you've said

    +rep
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    The idea that students should shut up and stop protesting because there are people suffering far more than they will is misguided and dangerous. If anything people should protest more instead of grumbling silently and doing nothing about it. You have a VOICE for a purpose and there are things in a democracy you can and should use it for. SPEAK! Or you will die irrelevant. We already are, to a large extent, irrelevant; this was exemplified by the Lib Dem's u-turn on a supposedly flagship policy and a set of personal pledges. Yeah, this happens all the time in politics (apart from the personal pledge bit). But people should be this angry every single time their elected "representatives" lie to them. They should be this angry every single time politicians put the interests of the economically powerful minority over the interests of the people (which is every ****ing day). How else are they to be held to account? Do they really fear the ballot box that much when they can just drift into a well-paid boardroom directorship or the House of Lords if they stop being an MP? No. We hold politicians to account with the constant and real threat of action if they **** up. Just like the state holds us in place with the constant and real threat of violence if we don't play ball.

    That aside, many of the students who are protesting sympathise with those affected by housing benefit and JSA cuts and oppose those cuts on principle, something our OP would know if he cared to find out.
    I agree too.

    + rep for you when TSR decide to give me some more to dish out
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Take into consideration that I'm not earning a wage.
    you get housing benefit then? I just wanna know where i can rent a place for £21 a week
 
 
 
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